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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Kratom Withdrawal Question

D

DrixR4Gidz

Greenlighter
Joined
Dec 8, 2023
Messages
4
So, I was on Suboxone for 5 years and the drug just started poisoning me; it was a laundry list of side effects and I had to get off. But I have been through sub WDs before and I didn't want the multiple month process to be so long so I tried using heroin for 30 days so that I would detox from a normal opiate instead of sub (don't do this unless you are truly confident that you can stop, I barely could and needed my girlfriend to basically lock me up). I'm not sure if it worked but I am pretty sure it did....the problem is that I started taking Kratom and my normal withdrawal timeline got muddied and prolonged. I am 33 and I just don't feel like I have the strength or energy to go through these kind of withdrawals anymore. I was using almost a gram a day of heroin when I jumped off of it. I started supplementing with kratom to make the withdrawals easier. What seems to have happened is that taking kratom prolonged the WDs. I would take 2 or 3 grams every 4 to 5 hours and I have been sick for 15 days. The withdrawals weren't as hard as they should have been but just seemed to be longer and lighter. Every day has gotten easier. Yesterday I finally went out of the house and got a haircut, I went out again today and cleaned the house. The main point is that after 15 days of remaining fairly constant with about 10-13 grams of kratom a day since the beginning, the sickness has finally gotten a lot better. In that time, the kratom has never gotten me high or even buzzed. I am thoroughly convinced that the withdrawals from the amount of heroin I was intravenously using was by far and away going to be way worse than the habit of kratom that I have now. I guess I am just scared because I went through kratom WDs like 10 years ago and I have no memory of them. Does anybody who has gone through both heroin and kratom withdrawals have any insight? How does the agony of an almost $80 a day IV heroin habit compare with what seems like a super weak 13g a day kratom habit?

I want to believe that I am just being paranoid but opiate withdrawals are so treacherous and I just have no idea what I am in for. I'm tired. I don't have much fight left in me. My plan now is to use ULDN (ultra low dose naltrexone) to taper down the kratom. But since the kratom doesn't get me high at all, I can't tell how much ULDN to use. I started at 1.25 micrograms but now am taking around 100 micrograms because I could swear I felt a difference when I took more. I guess that's a bonus topic if anyone has insight on that. Thanks for any help, I hope this is easy enough to make sense of. Feel free to ask for any clarification.

PS: Is there anyone who has any guesses on how much stronger morphine is than kratom?
 
Having only done H once I can't give much inside to that but I have went through K withdrawal quite a few times. I found powdered K leaf to be the worst withdrawal with lots of anxiety plus usually opiate withdrawal effects. The easiest k withdrawal was the last one I went through which was from liquid K shots (not IV, oral). That one was pretty easy and only lasted a few days. Good luck and stay strong. People here will give you lots of moral support.
 
From my experience, kratom WD lasts a while but is very mild compared to other drugs. A little worse than caffeine.

(edit) PS-- I should clarify that I drink a LOT of coffee, so my caffeine WD is worse than what most people would experience. For me, kratom WD lasts about as long as methadone WD but isn't nearly as uncomfortable. I had mild headaches and pretty bad insomnia, but that was it.
 
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I got extreme anhedonia from kratom withdrawals that lasted a long time, it has a half life as long as sub's around 24 hours. If you keep taking it every day it builds up in your system
 
someguyontheinternet said:
I got extreme anhedonia from kratom withdrawals that lasted a long time, it has a half life as long as sub's around 24 hours.
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Tell that the people that feel withdrawal after 4 hours. ;) Honestly, we really should have a chart on what substances in kratom have a long half life. Maybe the opiate type effect is not long? I have even seen people here say every 2 hours. Kratom gets a lot of flack for having a short half life at least in opinion. But I never feel withdrawal until about 9 hours and peak at 24 hours. (fast metabolism) If I take gabapentin then I hardly feel withdrawal even at 24 hours. Maybe kratom has some calcium channel activity that gabapentin relieves? Or maybe not as the gabapentinoids help with a lot of different types of withdrawal.

I have stopped a few times in the years. My situation mirrored my wife's. She really shoveled in kratom heavily for 6 years. Probably about 40 grams a day whenever she wanted. Went cold turkey in 2012. 4-5 nights of restless broken sleep and no energy. By the end of the week she was eating and sleeping normally. 2 weeks of lingering lethargy. By 1 month completely back to normal. She exercised her way back too so that helped.

The people I see have the hardest time is from some carry over addiction. Jumping from harder opioids to kratom. Like the kratom held over what was to come. Starting kratom without any opiates in my system lead to the easier and faster withdrawals.

And then of course as excited as I was with kratom 20 years ago the few heavy opiate hitters that I gave it to said they hardly felt anything. I sort of felt embarrassed. So it is relative for sure.
 
So the half life for mitragynine is super long but it gets metabolized, at least partially, into 7-OH-mitragynine but 7-OH has a half life of just under 4 hours. My guess is that people are feeling withdrawal from the 7-OH more quickly
 
thurston said:
Having only done H once I can't give much inside to that but I have went through K withdrawal quite a few times. I found powdered K leaf to be the worst withdrawal with lots of anxiety plus usually opiate withdrawal effects. The easiest k withdrawal was the last one I went through which was from liquid K shots (not IV, oral). That one was pretty easy and only lasted a few days. Good luck and stay strong. People here will give you lots of moral support.
Click to expand...
Wait....are you saying that the extract withdrawals are easier than powder?
 
JackARoe said:
Tell that the people that feel withdrawal after 4 hours. ;) Honestly, we really should have a chart on what substances in kratom have a long half life. Maybe the opiate type effect is not long? I have even seen people here say every 2 hours. Kratom gets a lot of flack for having a short half life at least in opinion. But I never feel withdrawal until about 9 hours and peak at 24 hours. (fast metabolism) If I take gabapentin then I hardly feel withdrawal even at 24 hours. Maybe kratom has some calcium channel activity that gabapentin relieves? Or maybe not as the gabapentinoids help with a lot of different types of withdrawal.

I have stopped a few times in the years. My situation mirrored my wife's. She really shoveled in kratom heavily for 6 years. Probably about 40 grams a day whenever she wanted. Went cold turkey in 2012. 4-5 nights of restless broken sleep and no energy. By the end of the week she was eating and sleeping normally. 2 weeks of lingering lethargy. By 1 month completely back to normal. She exercised her way back too so that helped.

The people I see have the hardest time is from some carry over addiction. Jumping from harder opioids to kratom. Like the kratom held over what was to come. Starting kratom without any opiates in my system lead to the easier and faster withdrawals.

And then of course as excited as I was with kratom 20 years ago the few heavy opiate hitters that I gave it to said they hardly felt anything. I sort of felt embarrassed. So it is relative for sure.
Click to expand...
I start getting withdrawals 4 hours after taking kratom. If I take a lot, it can take 7 or 8 hours. I can take 10g doses and not get a buzz....not even a buzz. I have been wondering if that has anything to do with the capsules or the brand I am taking. Thank you for sharing you and your wife's experience. Makes me feel a lot better. 40g a day and she had broken sleep and no energy.....that's good to hear. IV heroin withdrawals are nightmarish; it feels like a living nightmare. Gabapentin is something I have argued with doctors about. Thank god studies have been done on its effectiveness because otherwise I think these doctors wouldn't give me any for my withdrawals.
 
thurston said:
Having only done H once I can't give much inside to that but I have went through K withdrawal quite a few times. I found powdered K leaf to be the worst withdrawal with lots of anxiety plus usually opiate withdrawal effects. The easiest k withdrawal was the last one I went through which was from liquid K shots (not IV, oral). That one was pretty easy and only lasted a few days. Good luck and stay strong. People here will give you lots of moral support.
Click to expand...
I got your message..... thanks for the heads up. But how do I know how much kratom is in an extract? I want to take 3-4g equivalent of powder but on the extract they measure shit in mg of a certain chemical.
 
DrixR4Gidz said:
I got your message..... thanks for the heads up. But how do I know how much kratom is in an extract? I want to take 3-4g equivalent of powder but on the extract they measure shit in mg of a certain chemical.
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3 doses in the extract I used, not sure how much leaf that is. I would equate one dose to 10-20mg of hydrocodone if that helps.
 
JackARoe said:
Tell that the people that feel withdrawal after 4 hours. ;) Honestly, we really should have a chart on what substances in kratom have a long half life. Maybe the opiate type effect is not long? I have even seen people here say every 2 hours. Kratom gets a lot of flack for having a short half life at least in opinion. But I never feel withdrawal until about 9 hours and peak at 24 hours. (fast metabolism) If I take gabapentin then I hardly feel withdrawal even at 24 hours. Maybe kratom has some calcium channel activity that gabapentin relieves? Or maybe not as the gabapentinoids help with a lot of different types of withdrawal.

I have stopped a few times in the years. My situation mirrored my wife's. She really shoveled in kratom heavily for 6 years. Probably about 40 grams a day whenever she wanted. Went cold turkey in 2012. 4-5 nights of restless broken sleep and no energy. By the end of the week she was eating and sleeping normally. 2 weeks of lingering lethargy. By 1 month completely back to normal. She exercised her way back too so that helped.

The people I see have the hardest time is from some carry over addiction. Jumping from harder opioids to kratom. Like the kratom held over what was to come. Starting kratom without any opiates in my system lead to the easier and faster withdrawals.

And then of course as excited as I was with kratom 20 years ago the few heavy opiate hitters that I gave it to said they hardly felt anything. I sort of felt embarrassed. So it is relative for sure.
Click to expand...
The half life of kratom is 24hours. A simply Pubmed search yield numerous studies evidencing this
 
DrixR4Gidz said:
I got your message..... thanks for the heads up. But how do I know how much kratom is in an extract? I want to take 3-4g equivalent of powder but on the extract they measure shit in mg of a certain chemical.
Click to expand...
1 gram of standard kratom powder contains 15 of mitragynine on average
 
CmonYouShouldKnowBetter said:
The half life of kratom is 24hours. A simply Pubmed search yield numerous studies evidencing this
Click to expand...
So the half-life of Kratom is 24 hours. Yet there’s a lot of constitutes that make it up. So I think what you’re saying is some of the actives have a half-life of 24 hours.

There was a thread in the neuroscience forum about duration of effects and half lives of substances. I’ve been trying to find it but I think a lot of us like me mix up half-life and duration.
 
JackARoe said:
So the half-life of Kratom is 24 hours. Yet there’s a lot of constitutes that make it up. So I think what you’re saying is some of the actives have a half-life of 24 hours.

There was a thread in the neuroscience forum about duration of effects and half lives of substances. I’ve been trying to find it but I think a lot of us like me mix up half-life and duration.
Click to expand...
Right you are. Terminal, elimination, and effectual half-life is all different. The 24-hour half life is vital information when looking at drug interactions and contraidictions, the seroquel OD case report for example but also when looking at how long imminent WD lasts
 
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