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Kratom Proponents present 120,000 signature Petition to the White House

Mycophile said:
^^^^

Does anyone have any response to the above question??
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Dude, I wish I had good news for you, but every time the DEA has used their "emergency powers" like this in the past with other drugs such as MDMA (Ecstasy) the end result was a damn disgrace.

More specifically, even after a DEA-appointed panel of qualified neuropsychopharmacologists took their time to study the acute and long-term health risks associated with the consumption of MDMA (Ecstasy) and shared their findings + recommendations with whomever it concerned at the DEA, the experts' professional opinions were blatantly ignored without any explanation.

From what I recall, the eggheads (experts) recommended that MDMA be placed into Schedule III of the Controlled Drugs & Substances Act. That way, qualified medical professionals can prescribe it to patients suffering from certain chronic conditions such as PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) and severe anxiety due to terminal cancer (apparently it helps dying cancer patients to confront that reality while being at peace without any fear).

In the end, the DEA announced soon-thereafter that 3,4-Methylenedioxymethylamphetamine (MDMA [Ecstasy]) has been permanently placed into Schedule I which is supposed to be reserved for especially dangerous substances which have shown no efficacy with respect to therapeutic use. It still includes Cannabis Sativa and Indica as well.

All in all, the DEA is a parasitic law enforcement agency and a disgraceful stain on the face of Lady Liberty who routinely abuse Asset Forfeiture to seize (steal) cash found on "suspicious looking" Americans (many who've never touched a street drug before in their lives). And in order to be able to seize any cash found on a person, the DEA does NOT have to prove that the cash in question is drug-related money. And then they use it as bonus pay to purchase the latest and greatest popular gadgets such as the newest iPhone.

So yeah, in my opinion, Kratom is gonna stay banned.

If they reverse the Kratom ban, as far as I know, it'll be an unprecedented move on their part.

Like I said, the DEA is a fucking parasite of a law enforcement agency who has not achieved any tangible drug war goals of theirs originally set forth back in 1973 IIRC. They have only helped to destroy any positivity with respect to the general relationship between cops and civilians, as well as trust of the police to do the right thing.

The DEA has got to go. The day they cease to exist is the day I'll go streaking-drunk around the block while joyously-screaming "Good-fucking-riddance to the DEA!"

Edit: I hope they reverse the Kratom ban though. I'll do what I can to spread awareness of this DEA stupidity.
 
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Mycophile said:
I just want to know if we'll hear ANYTHING other than "yes, the ban is still happening".

Like, will we hear ANY kind of public statement regarding all the petitions and calls and emails to representatives and everything??

Will they even be publicly acknowledged and if so, HOW???
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If a White House petition gets 100,000 signatures then it requires the President to do a top level review and then issue a public statement. There's no obligation to change the policy or send it back to committee. All it means is that it legally must pass through the President's office.

And as most people should know by now, the President is a puppet and hardly ever decides anything without input from the powers that be. So don't hold your breath. (Though if I'm wrong I'd be elated.)
 
Foreigner said:
And as most people should know by now, the President is a puppet and hardly ever decides anything without input from the powers that be. So don't hold your breath. (Though if I'm wrong I'd be elated.)
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Exactly - we need to get money out of politics. Probably only possible via a state-sponsored amendment.

I'd be elated also if Kratom is removed from the CSA schedule. Plant possession equaling a criminal offense should be unconstitutional.
 
I got a generic email response back from my state senator and frankly I was surprised to even get that.


Edit: This is what I got back.

"Thank you for contacting me about controlled substances. I appreciate receiving your comments.

As you know, kratom comes from a tree found naturally in Southeast Asia. When ingested, the leaves from the kratom tree can produce similar effects to those of opioids. The National Institute on Drug Abuse has written that kratom use may lead to withdrawals, resulting in dependence.

On August 31, 2016, the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) issued a notice in the Federal Register that it intends to schedule the active ingredients in kratom as schedule I substances under the Controlled Substances Act. Schedule I substances are defined as drugs that have a high potential for abuse, no accepted medical usage, and no medically safe means of administration. The DEA found that kratom met these three criteria. The notice states that the DEA intends to temporarily schedule kratom in a final order, which would have to be issued no sooner than 30 days after publication of the notice. Should the DEA issue a final order, kratom would become a schedule I drug for two years, with the possibility of that scheduling being extended for another year after that.

Generally, I am concerned about the unregulated sale of substances that have the potential to be addictive. During a time when many Americans are struggling with opioid addiction, along with addiction to other dangerous substances, I believe we must carefully examine whether new substances should be sold to the public. The dialogue between elected officials and the citizens that they represent is an important element of our system of government. Please be assured that I will keep your comments in mind during the weeks and months ahead.

Again, thank you for contacting me. If you have additional comments or questions, I urge you to visit my website:"
 
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This ban is going to effectively lead millions of Americans using Kratom to get off prescription opioids or heroin back to using prescription opioids or heroin. Kratom is one of the best herbal supplements to aid in opiate withdrawal/detox. Many people use it to get off drugs like Suboxone and Methadone, which are 2 drugs big pharma pushes to "help people get off opioid drugs" like heroin or oxycodone. As many of you know Suboxone and Methadone are just as addictive as heroin and many people say they are even worse. Big pharma is pushing for this ban because they can not make money off of Kratom. Companies like Trevena are already in the process of creating Kratom like drugs, for example look up Oliceridine (TRV130). I am disgusted at what the DEA is doing and this will lead many people in the middle of their detox to go back to heroin or powerful prescription painkillers. Kratom is better then anything that big pharma has EVER created (Suboxone and Methadone) for helping people get off opioids. Do all you can to fight against this tyrannical agency known as the DEA (which is literally run by big pharma companies through lobbying efforts and bribes).
 
Snake_Eyes said:
I got a generic email response back from my state senator and frankly I was surprised to even get that.


Edit: This is what I got back.

"Thank you for contacting me about controlled substances. I appreciate receiving your comments.

As you know, kratom comes from a tree found naturally in Southeast Asia. When ingested, the leaves from the kratom tree can produce similar effects to those of opioids. The National Institute on Drug Abuse has written that kratom use may lead to withdrawals, resulting in dependence.

On August 31, 2016, the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) issued a notice in the Federal Register that it intends to schedule the active ingredients in kratom as schedule I substances under the Controlled Substances Act. Schedule I substances are defined as drugs that have a high potential for abuse, no accepted medical usage, and no medically safe means of administration. The DEA found that kratom met these three criteria. The notice states that the DEA intends to temporarily schedule kratom in a final order, which would have to be issued no sooner than 30 days after publication of the notice. Should the DEA issue a final order, kratom would become a schedule I drug for two years, with the possibility of that scheduling being extended for another year after that.

Generally, I am concerned about the unregulated sale of substances that have the potential to be addictive. During a time when many Americans are struggling with opioid addiction, along with addiction to other dangerous substances, I believe we must carefully examine whether new substances should be sold to the public. The dialogue between elected officials and the citizens that they represent is an important element of our system of government. Please be assured that I will keep your comments in mind during the weeks and months ahead.

Again, thank you for contacting me. If you have additional comments or questions, I urge you to visit my website:"
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This REALLY angers me.

This guy says nothing we all didn't know and makes no good argument for why Kratom should be illegal other than that it's adtimedly mildly addictive and the DEA says it should be illegal.

That and that it's "unregulated", but you can perform quality control on a substance without making it illegal let alone a schedule one substance people are imprisoned for.

The FDA makes sure foods and supplements are pure and could do the same with kratom and still let it be sold OTC in drug stores.

What this fool of a politician doesn't realize is that Kratom HELPS addicts more than it hurts them, yet states the opioid epidemic as a reason it should stay illegal.

If he was honest with himself he'd realize that the opioid epidemic will continue as more and more people get addicted to their prescribed pain killers and after being shut off move on to heroin which they WILL find ways of accessing despite the laws.

Making Kratom illegal prevents the best avenue these addicts have to avoid this cycle of dependency.

He could have saved himself some time in his stupid regurgitation of a letter and simple said "the DEA says Kratom is bad so I don't have the balls to disagree with them".
 
let me play devils advocate. I have not heard the DEA or anyone come out and say this...which doesn't make sense but, what if there is a risk of people trying kratom because its readily available at every gas station now, legally....they like it, get addicted/tolerance, then graduate to pills and heroin because kratom doesn't give a good high after you use if for a little bit. where these people never wouldve sought out illegal heroin at first, but once dependent they will make the risk to break the law

i get that kratom is highly effective for people not looking to get high, just looking to transition to a safer/lighter opioid, and that it also is great medicine for a myriad of medical issues. But what about the kids just wanting to get high, liking it, then graduating to oxy and heroin....kratom "the gateway opioid"
 
This really is unfortunate, but a long time coming. Maybe if people hadn't been detailing their kratom addictions online and polydrug use, this wouldn't be happening.
 
LucidSDreamr said:
let me play devils advocate. I have not heard the DEA or anyone come out and say this...which doesn't make sense but, what if there is a risk of people trying kratom because its readily available at every gas station now, legally....they like it, get addicted/tolerance, then graduate to pills and heroin because kratom doesn't give a good high after you use if for a little bit. where these people never wouldve sought out illegal heroin at first, but once dependent they will make the risk to break the law

i get that kratom is highly effective for people not looking to get high, just looking to transition to a safer/lighter opioid, and that it also is great medicine for a myriad of medical issues. But what about the kids just wanting to get high, liking it, then graduating to oxy and heroin....kratom "the gateway opioid"
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Well that's not 100% IMPOSSIBLE, but you are basically talking about me when you talk about someone who was opiate naive and then got into Kratom and really enjoyed it.

Other than Kratom, I've only ever taken opioids (Oxy and Hydro) when prescribed them for surgery.

Sure, they got me high, and I wont deny that in a way they were probably a gateway to Kratom since when I heard Kratom compared to low dose hydro it interested me...BUT...I never sought out Hydros or Oxy on the street.

Now you talk about kratom tolerance making it "not work anymore" but I don't believe it, because me personally, my tolerance got as high as one ounce PER DOSE at one point and yet my stomach STILL tolerated it and I got it all down and got high.

I stopped for a while and my tolerance went down, but my point being there, that Kratom usually DOES still work you just need larger doses UNLESS you start using extracts or more powerful opiates.

Using more powerful opiates is what will make it "no longer work" and that strays from our argument because those are already available either on the street or through a doctor.

I still wasn't really heavily physically dependent though, just MILD WD lasting no more than a few days at worst.

Now that it is being banned, and I'm VERY pissed about it, I am STILL NOT going to seek out any stronger opioids, nor did I even try to stock up on Kratom.

I decided it was smarter to let it go.


But in the end, I think you know as well as I do that that is NOT the DEA's reason for banning this stuff.

They are almost certainly helping out big pharma who wants to make legal high priced versions of the alkaloid, and of course, we all know that the war on drugs is based around corruption and money, NOT good intentions.

They WANT gangs to continue to fuel the drug trade, making money for prisons filled with mostly non-violent drug offenders, keeping people addicted to high priced prescription opioids etc and all this = more money for cops, the DEA, big pharma, the prison system, it's just one giant money making scheme.


IF the DEA's REAL reason for making Kratom illegal was "concern for public safety" they would simply decriminalize it and have the FDA insure purity along with ALL opiates and offer programs where you can go and get your fix with a clean syringe and a hospital bed if you are in withdrawal.

People would go to HOSPITALS for ALL forms of opiate addiction, NOT JAIL!!!

So don't you agree there's no real "public concern" on the DEA's part???


I am 200% sure that the DEA doesn't give TWO SHITS about anyone's health.

It's all about money.

Not to mention, IMO if someone wants to take ANY drug that should be their own right.

If I'm not hurting anyone else or driving under the influence and I'm an adult in my own home I should have the right to put into my body what I want.
 
i agree but they might use my viewpoint as a justification because they can't use corrupt reasons.

Thats great that you had self control to not graduate to heroin....but many people don't.

And kratom still works after tolerance....but the "high" is obviously not anything like the opiate naive peroid.
 
LucidSDreamr said:
Thats great that you had self control to not graduate to heroin....but many people don't.
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So you trot out the "gateway theory" of addiction, which has been disproven too many times to count?

There's some good reasons to regulate kratom, but because it's gateway drug to heroin is a new one.
 
LucidSDreamr said:
i agree but they might use my viewpoint as a justification because they can't use corrupt reasons.

Thats great that you had self control to not graduate to heroin....but many people don't.

And kratom still works after tolerance....but the "high" is obviously not anything like the opiate naive peroid.
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My high was still pretty much as good for the most part.

Not as good as if I took a long break, but really just about as good as usual, I just needed more to achieve it, so that may be your experience but not mine.

Also, what you are describing is MORE of a reason to keep Kratom legal, because now that Kratom addicts are being cut off they will want to go back to stronger opiates, and some of them no doubt will.
 
Congressman. Pocan says he talked with DEA leader Chuck Rosenberg today, and that Rosenberg indicated the ban will be delayed, reopened for public comment

Dear valued customer,

We have some great news that seems to be breaking and wanted to share it with you as soon as possible. Our hard work appears to be paying off but it is no time to become complacent.

David Kolovson, a spokesman for Rep. Mark Pocan, D-Wis., tells U.S. News that Pocan spoke with DEA Acting Administrator Chuck Rosenberg on Friday, and that Rosenberg indicated the decision to ban kratom will be postponed while the agency opens a modified public notice and comment period.

Rather than enact the ban in the immediate future, "it appears the DEA will instead open up a modified comment process before a final decision will be made," Kolovson says. "While we do not know the exact timing or details of the new comment period for kratom, Acting Administrator Rosenberg assured Congressman Pocan that we will find out more in the near future."

The number of days that would be included in the modified public comment period is not yet clear, Kolovson says.

Source (see bottom of article for Edit)
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/...ossibly-longer
 
Cosmic Trigger said:
Congressman. Pocan says he talked with DEA leader Chuck Rosenberg today, and that Rosenberg indicated the ban will be delayed, reopened for public comment

Dear valued customer,

We have some great news that seems to be breaking and wanted to share it with you as soon as possible. Our hard work appears to be paying off but it is no time to become complacent.

David Kolovson, a spokesman for Rep. Mark Pocan, D-Wis., tells U.S. News that Pocan spoke with DEA Acting Administrator Chuck Rosenberg on Friday, and that Rosenberg indicated the decision to ban kratom will be postponed while the agency opens a modified public notice and comment period.

Rather than enact the ban in the immediate future, "it appears the DEA will instead open up a modified comment process before a final decision will be made," Kolovson says. "While we do not know the exact timing or details of the new comment period for kratom, Acting Administrator Rosenberg assured Congressman Pocan that we will find out more in the near future."

The number of days that would be included in the modified public comment period is not yet clear, Kolovson says.

Source (see bottom of article for Edit)
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/...ossibly-longer
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How come when I click on the article it says "page not found"???

Is this REALLY legit??

Is it REALLY true that with it now being October 1st Kratom is STILL LEGAL TO PURCHASE????

We need to find out for sure.

Please comment more on this when you know.
 
DEA's Responds with a Public Commentary Period

Do not celebrate yet! But this time tomorrow, there is potential talk that we will be receiving an official notice from the DEA informing us of a 30-60 day Public Commentary Period lasting anywhere from Nov. 1st to Dec. 1st 2016.

Here are 2 possible outcomes for tomorrow:

A) Extending the Date of Temporary Scheduling
If the DEA merely extends the effective date of the temporary scheduling in order to allow time to receive more "public" comments, it doesn’t necessarily mean they are required to consider those comments- we’re in the same position, but with a little more time.

B) Initiate the Regular Scheduling Process
Alternatively the DEA could initiate the formal rule making procedures of a “regular schedule" to permanently schedule Kratom, which would be great news.

Why's that?

Because, the DEA needs to use the 8 factor analysis rather than the 3 factor analysis used for the temporary ban, so they must establish a formal way to receive comments and are required to consider the comments. Agencies, including the DEA, often publish the comments they receive in the Federal Register.

The comments and the DEA’s consideration of the comments become part of the administrative record, which is not public, but it is used to challenge the agency in court by showing that their action was arbitrary and capricious given the information in the administrative record.

We cannot STRESS how HUGE this is for the Kratom community, the costly War On Drugs, and for our rights as American citizens. This type of pushback against the DEA is unprecedented.

Every one of you who put in the time, effort and money thus far in calling, writing, and donating, has made a difference so far. Thank you.

But guess what?

It's NOT over.

We've fought this hard to get this PRECISE OPPORTUNITY.

Now that we've gotten this far, let's CONTINUE to show the DEA just how organized, educated and passionate the Kratom community is until they realize that they in no way shape or form have the right to take away our medicine, and in many cases, our livelihoods.

We will be disclosing a specific list of CALL TO ACTION items VERY SOON,
 
DEA withdraws intent to schedule Kratom! Will have Public Comment Period lasting until December 1st.

Dear valued customer,

The DEA has announced that they are withdrawing their intent to schedule Kratom as per announcement dated August 31, 2016. They are now asking for a comment period to last through December 1, 2016. These comments which are made up of public comments, scientific research, FDA comments will be used to determine how the agency will want to proceed. While the fight is not over, this is a big win and even caught us by surprise (withdrawing original intent)!! Stay tuned over the coming days for further analysis, discussion, and action items to help.

We are extremely proud of the Kratom community and want to say thank you. Keep up the fight.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2016-24659.pdf


IF YOU CARE PLEASE SHARE THIS WITH FRIENDS ETC. THIS IS OUR BIG OPPORTUNITY
 
Cosmic Trigger said:
DEA withdraws intent to schedule Kratom! Will have Public Comment Period lasting until December 1st.

Dear valued customer,

The DEA has announced that they are withdrawing their intent to schedule Kratom as per announcement dated August 31, 2016. They are now asking for a comment period to last through December 1, 2016. These comments which are made up of public comments, scientific research, FDA comments will be used to determine how the agency will want to proceed. While the fight is not over, this is a big win and even caught us by surprise (withdrawing original intent)!! Stay tuned over the coming days for further analysis, discussion, and action items to help.

We are extremely proud of the Kratom community and want to say thank you. Keep up the fight.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2016-24659.pdf


IF YOU CARE PLEASE SHARE THIS WITH FRIENDS ETC. THIS IS OUR BIG OPPORTUNITY
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What the..?!

Talk about "unexpected" and/or "unprecedented" eh?

Could it actually be that democratic values within the U.S. has made the DEA second-guess itself?

Great job to everyone who pitched in. This is utterly fantastic - totally made my day!

P.S: I bet Big Pharma isn't too pleased huh? LOL.
 
ro4eva said:
What the..?!

Talk about "unexpected" and/or "unprecedented" eh?

Could it actually be that democratic values within the U.S. has made the DEA second-guess itself?

Great job to everyone who pitched in. This is utterly fantastic - totally made my day!

P.S: I bet Big Pharma isn't too pleased huh? LOL.
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DON'T GET TOO EXCITED!!!

I think people are reading this the WRONG way.

They have NOT "given up their intent to schedule Kratom" they are only DELAYING it till December 1st.

I am going to find more ways to make a difference and make more calls and emails but if LOTS of people don't continue doing it it will not matter.

I don't want to be pessimistic, but I think it will still become illegal after December 1st.

ALL THEY ARE DOING IS ALLOWING FOR A COMMENT PERIOD AND DELAYING THE SCHEDULING.

If there aren't enough responses (and maybe even if there ARE) they will probably still schedule it.

You guys who are so excited about this like me need to get off your asses and continue to make calls and emails if you want this to be a PERMANENT thing.
 
^Seriously...

Usually they have the comment period and ignore it. This time they thought they could get away without having one and that's what caused a part of the outroar. Only sustained pressure will keep them from scheduling while Congress and the American People are stoned on December break.
 
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