Kratom- How to Avoid Physical Dependence

[Asparagus_Prince]

Last year and early this year I posted plenty on here about my Adderall binges. A few of you may remember. My dumb butt didn't recognize that my 100-200mg per day binges were leading to so many problems afterwards. I don't want to learn the hard way like that again.

So... that brings me to Kratom. I've learned to LOVE it. It's a double whammy... it alleviates my pain and gives me a similar productivity/energy boost as Adderall does.

BUT... I've read on here that Kratom withdrawals are tough. I don't want to find out the hard way about this, too.

So... I've been tracking my Kratom usage here lately. I usually take a level tablespoon when I do take it. So around 7 grams.

Over the last 30 days this has been my usage, in grams. You'll see that I've been using more recently compared to late October/early November.

Day 1 (Oct 21): 7
Day 2: 0
Day 3: 7
Day 4: 0
Day 5: 7
Day 6: 7
Day 7: 7
Day 8: 0
Day 9: 0
Day 10: 10
Day 11: 0
Day 12: 0
Day 13: 0
Day 14: 0
Day 15: 7
Day 16: 7
Day 17: 7
Day 18: 7
Day 19: 7
Day 20: 7
Day 21: 10
Day 22: 0
Day 23: 7
Day 24: 7
Day 25: 7
Day 26: 7
Day 27: 0
Day 28: 0
Day 29: 0
Day 30: 7

So... whattya all think? You think I can maintain a routine similar to this without running into problems?

Notice Day 15 through Day 26. Would you consider that a "binge?" I used Kratom on 11 of the 12 days during that span. I definitely felt ok. Didn't feel like a struggling, out-of-control addict. And I didn't experience any withdrawals when I stopped for 3 days recently.

However, I wish I had been tracking my gabapentin too. I think I popped 600mg the other day on Day 28. Thankfully Gapapentin is not a problem for me. My 600mg per day/30 day supply usually lasts me 45-60 days. This current script is going to last me more like 80 days, I think (mostly because of my more consistent K use).

Adderall is sprinkled through there, too. But the point is that Kratom has become my drug of choice.

Even if the consensus is that this is a fairly safe routine, I still plan to cut back some. The bowel movements are weird, and I've heard/read some stuff about it causing some sort of abdominal problem over time. Colon? Intestines? Pancreas? I'm not sure. One of those things down there.

I don't know how much this matters, but I am 200 lb male. (90 kilo/14 stone).

 

[cdin]

I think with that kind of dosing you are destined for a kratom based opioid habit. if you want to avoid the downward cascade of beginning opioid downregulation between doses (no energy, stuff seems shitty "without kratom" etc. etc.)
you really need to be dosing every 2 weeks. once a week maximum, and i wouldn't do that many consecutive weeks.

Remember in your last thread when i stated "if you are having trouble w the amphetamines, please, please avoid benzos, gaba agents, opioids etc. because the addiction process is so much stronger than w pharmaceutical amphetamines,"

Kratom WD sucks. and what it does to your energy chronically double sucks. I like WDing from it LESS than i like WD from a standard opioid. If i were you i would nip this in the bud, not take any for at least a month, then reinstate a once every two week pain vacation.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Kratom withdrawal can indeed be quite bad. I've been using it 9 years and have experienced cold turkey withdrawal two times.

Once from 40g/day which was sheer agony for 5 days, then a slighly less but equal hell with protracted withdrawals that lasted over a month.. and even longer PAWS.


About 3 months ago I started using again, about 7-10g per day with the intent to never experience those withdrawals again. I went into detox for alcohol a week ago. I mentioned my kratom use but said I didn't want suboxone because I didn't think I'd need it.

I still experienced a withdrawal, but not as bad. Mostly muscle pain and very bad restlessness which could only be controlled with methocarbamol and ibuprofen, even then I still had anxiety from it even though I was taking librium and phenobarbital.

It's good that you can go 3 days without kratom, but I encourage you to go even longer. Kratom is very unusual because, at least for me, the withdrawal doesn't really start until ~22-24hr after last dose, so taking just 1 day off between doses is not enough to avoid dependence.

Heed the adage with kratom; "less is more."

 

[Asparagus_Prince]

I think with that kind of dosing you are destined for a kratom based opioid habit. if you want to avoid the downward cascade of beginning opioid downregulation between doses (no energy, stuff seems shitty "without kratom" etc. etc.)
you really need to be dosing every 2 weeks. once a week maximum, and i wouldn't do that many consecutive weeks.

Remember in your last thread when i stated "if you are having trouble w the amphetamines, please, please avoid benzos, gaba agents, opioids etc. because the addiction process is so much stronger than w pharmaceutical amphetamines,"

Kratom WD sucks. and what it does to your energy chronically double sucks. I like WDing from it LESS than i like WD from a standard opioid. If i were you i would nip this in the bud, not take any for at least a month, then reinstate a once every two week pain vacation.

Thanks.

I'm sorry I'm tired and perhaps my brain isn't working, but what do you mean by dosing every 2 weeks, but only once per week maximum?

Adderall has been my all-time favorite (and most useful) drug. For this past year+ it's common for me to to this:

1. Use Adderall for about a 10 day span (average of around 40mg per day).
2. Take a 3-4 day break. (with perhaps one low dose Adderall on Day 2 and/or 3 of the break).
3. Use Kratom for maybe 5 of the next 7 days
4. Another 2 day break from everything
5. Start back at #1

This is roughly my approach. I guess my thinking is that by bouncing back and forth between two drugs, including the little breaks, it's harder to become addicted to any one drug. But... I'm certainly dependent on "drugs", plural, in general. Hasn't really caused any problems in my life though. In fact, my life is on a continuous upswing. So I have a lot of incentive to maintain control of my drug use so that momentum keeps going.

I don't really like the word "control". Routine is probably better. Thoughtfulness, planning, and routine.

Why am I saying all this? Because that above routine has been the case for MOST of this year. But in the last few months I feel like Kratom and Adderall have swapped roles.

I'm fortunate that I've never had a problem with painkillers, benzos, and gabapentin for that matter. I've abused them off and on over the years, but sporadically enough where it's never become a problem. I feel like I have a certain immunity against this family of drugs, ironically the most addictive ones. Most opioids light a fire under my ass, which I like. But I like the fire I get from stimulants better, so I really have no thirst for opioids.

I know there are exceptions to the rule but I am convinced that people with depression, PTSD, low self-esteem are FAR more likely to reach for heroin, pain pills, heroin, and even THC I suppose. As we all know painkillers treat emotional pain as well. The numbing of guilt. The ache of whatever awful thing is going on in life.

Me? I feel like the happiest and luckiest motherfucker on earth. Benzos don't even appeal to me. The only time I'll wash down a couple painkillers with wine, or use THC, is when I need a break from my own head. Or maybe to relax after a solitary bad day. So... that's why I'm attracted to the upper feeling. Some people use drugs to escape from life for a while. Others use drugs to enhance or propel themselves into life. I'm more the latter.

I'm aware there are exceptions to this. I know a suicidal guy right now that has PTSD, anger issues, and terrible guilt along with zero self-esteem. He's ALWAYS irritable and uptight and worrying. And he relapses on meth time and after time. I'd think someone like him might be more interested in weed or Xanax or something. But that's anecdotal and not the usual pattern I see with human addiction.

I know drugs sometimes affect people differently. But for me Adderall is great for being productive. Kratom is great for being productive AND it relieves my chronic pain. It's like one of those 2-in-1 shampoos and conditioners... lol. And on Kratom I feel smarter and more confident. Adderall does that too, of course, but I'm starting to like Kratom better. And Adderall DOES relieve some pain, but not like Kratom. I'm going to grade the two...

Motivation: Adderall A, Kratom A+
Confidence: Adderall B+, Kratom A+
Being more Outgoing: Adderall B+, Kratom A+
Avoids Fucking with my Sleep: Adderall F, Kratom C
Performance Enhancing: Adderall A-, Kratom A+
Pain Relief: Adderall B-, Kratom A+
Bowel Side Effects: Adderall C, Kratom F
Sweatiness: Adderall F, Kratom D
My Ability to Stop a Binge and Still Function Well: Adderall D, Kratom B (so far)*
Keeps your Breath smelling good: Adderall C-, Kratom D- (I THINK anyway. Sometimes no matter how much I brush my teeth I feel like I can't quite get that Kratom taste out. It's like it stays superglued to my tongue or something)

*And that's the key I think... so far. I've abused opioids and benzos occasionally, when I just happen to get my hands on them, but they've just never been a problem for me. I don't know what a withdrawal is like with either of those drugs. Or Gabapentin for that matter, and I've been on it for 5 or 6 years. But... maybe that's my problem. Just because I haven't had a problem with those drugs, and just because I THINK I'm using Kratom as a stimulant. does NOT mean that it is. I need to remind myself of that every time Kratom makes me itchy just like many opioids do. (which is weird... I take the same 7g almost all the time and sometimes I feel itchy, sometimes I don't. What's up with that?).

So, I thank you for your response and your response in the other thread. You've pushed me deeper into the contemplation stage. I think I need to at least shift back to Adderall being my #1 go to, and Kratom being more of the occasional treat. And to help me transition off Adderall during the binges that go a little too far. Instead of using Kratom 4 or 5 times per week maybe I should cut back to twice per week and go from there.

 

[Asparagus_Prince]

thjhink

Kratom withdrawal can indeed be quite bad. I've been using it 9 years and have experienced cold turkey withdrawal two times.



It's good that you can go 3 days without kratom, but I encourage you to go even longer. Kratom is very unusual because, at least for me, the withdrawal doesn't really start until ~22-24hr after last dose, so taking just 1 day off between doses is not enough to avoid dependence.

Heed the adage with kratom; "less is more."

Tell me a little about the cold turkey withdrawals. Was it when you used Kratom every day for weeks/months?

What would be better? To use Kratom 3 days on, 3 days off. Or... to use it 7 days off, 7 days on? If you HAD to choose one of those?

One thing I like about Kratom is that it's not like Adderall or cigarettes or alcohol where I'm prone to say: "Just one more. One more won't hurt!" WIth Kratom I'll take my 7g dose and I'm pretty good for the rest of the day. I had a couple of those Kratom ODs and, whilst brief, they still sucked. I think I learned that the hard way and have no desire to return to that feeling.

And I'm not talking about 40g per day. Imagine the above scenario, for you, at more like 10g per day.

Yeah, I hear everyone say "less is more" with Kratom. You're talking about individual dosing right? So instead of 10g, take 7. Or instead of 7, take 4. Right? Or does "less is more" have some sort of day-to-day, longer term connotation?

 

[Asparagus_Prince]

Remember in your last thread when i stated "if you are having trouble w the amphetamines, please, please avoid benzos, gaba agents, opioids etc. because the addiction process is so much stronger than w pharmaceutical amphetamines,"

Seems like you might remember some of my Adderall problems from about a year ago. So quick update on that...

I was snorting them all the time, which led me to the "just one more" mindset so much more easily. I haven't snorted in at least 6 months I think. Maybe more like 8. It's so much better just swallowing them and occasionally sublingual-ing them.

About a year I was getting my Adderall refill, going at about an average of 100mg per day, then I'd wait 3 weeks for my next refill. But that 100mg was just an average. I know I went over 200mg per day on a few occasions earlier this year. I simply got pissed and told myself it had to stop. There for a while I could NOT stop snorting them. And, it really did feel like a miracle. Just one day I stopped snorting. I don't even miss it. I never thought that would happen without therapy or treatment or something.

I'm still not a golden child with Adderall. But instead of 100mg per day binges with the occasional 200mg+ day, I'm more like 40mg per day binges with the occasional 90mg day. My Adderall pills have been almost lasting to the next refill, now. Instead of being out on Day 8 it's more like Day 25 now. That's so much better. I'm still getting the effects but realizing that by snorting them I was simply wasting them.

But THAT's what it was like MOST of this year, up until fairly recently. NOW... in the last couple months my Adderall refills ARE lasting the whole 30 days and even beyond. That's of course because of the increased Kratom use.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Well I can't describe the cold turkey from 10g very well because I was in detox and they were pumping librium and phenobarbital in me, the only thing I noticed was restless muscles and anxiety. There was no sickness or much pain.

But withdrawal from 40g was like full blown opioid withdrawal, and also feels like coming off an SSRI and antipsychotic at the same time.

Less is more is an adage because kratom loses it's magic quickly when used frequently, and also has a ceiling effect. Taking 7 day breaks would be best for that reason.

 

[xtcgrrrl]

I took kratom daily for 3-4 years. Just took a break from it since my partner and I are trying to make a baby. My use was low (2g in the morning, followed by 2g later in the afternoon if needed. My WDs were very minor, I’ve been through a lot worse. I use capsules, which I highly recommend, so that you don’t have that problem of continuing to taste the kratom that you mentioned. The bowel problems go away over time if you use daily for a long time. I have not heard about the stomach problems you mentioned, do you have a source? Since this is the drug I used and will again afterwards for pain relief, if there’s some health issue, I’d like to be aware of it. Kratom has some wonderful things for my mood, my anxiety, my weight loss, and my pain. It’s a very effective drug on multiple fronts. I don’t think that at very low doses you have to worry about WDs. Any time I go off if, I just reduce the number of capsules I take at each dose by 1, slowly, until I’m off. And there’s no pain that way.

 

[xtcgrrrl]

kratom loses it's magic quickly when used frequently, and also has a ceiling effect. Taking 7 day breaks would be best for that reason.

Since I was using kratom for pain relief and not to get high, this wasn’t a concern of mine. And when my low doses ceased to be effective for pain relief, I’d take a tolerance break of 1 week, like you said, and it would be just as effective as before when I restarted my regimen.

 

[cdin]

What I meant was - go for taking a nice dose every two weeks and if there’s an emergency maybe once a week occasionally shouldn’t present problems. But 2-3x or more a week will definitely start the addiction process. I agree w previous posters that less is more, and it’s easier to sustain a couple grams everyone once in a while than full on 7-10g doses

 

[BK38]

Last year and early this year I posted plenty on here about my Adderall binges. A few of you may remember. My dumb butt didn't recognize that my 100-200mg per day binges were leading to so many problems afterwards. I don't want to learn the hard way like that again.

So... that brings me to Kratom. I've learned to LOVE it. It's a double whammy... it alleviates my pain and gives me a similar productivity/energy boost as Adderall does.

BUT... I've read on here that Kratom withdrawals are tough. I don't want to find out the hard way about this, too.

So... I've been tracking my Kratom usage here lately. I usually take a level tablespoon when I do take it. So around 7 grams.

Over the last 30 days this has been my usage, in grams. You'll see that I've been using more recently compared to late October/early November.

Day 1 (Oct 21): 7
Day 2: 0
Day 3: 7
Day 4: 0
Day 5: 7
Day 6: 7
Day 7: 7
Day 8: 0
Day 9: 0
Day 10: 10
Day 11: 0
Day 12: 0
Day 13: 0
Day 14: 0
Day 15: 7
Day 16: 7
Day 17: 7
Day 18: 7
Day 19: 7
Day 20: 7
Day 21: 10
Day 22: 0
Day 23: 7
Day 24: 7
Day 25: 7
Day 26: 7
Day 27: 0
Day 28: 0
Day 29: 0
Day 30: 7

So... whattya all think? You think I can maintain a routine similar to this without running into problems?

Notice Day 15 through Day 26. Would you consider that a "binge?" I used Kratom on 11 of the 12 days during that span. I definitely felt ok. Didn't feel like a struggling, out-of-control addict. And I didn't experience any withdrawals when I stopped for 3 days recently.

However, I wish I had been tracking my gabapentin too. I think I popped 600mg the other day on Day 28. Thankfully Gapapentin is not a problem for me. My 600mg per day/30 day supply usually lasts me 45-60 days. This current script is going to last me more like 80 days, I think (mostly because of my more consistent K use).

Adderall is sprinkled through there, too. But the point is that Kratom has become my drug of choice.

Even if the consensus is that this is a fairly safe routine, I still plan to cut back some. The bowel movements are weird, and I've heard/read some stuff about it causing some sort of abdominal problem over time. Colon? Intestines? Pancreas? I'm not sure. One of those things down there.

I don't know how much this matters, but I am 200 lb male. (90 kilo/14 stone).

I think you can avoid dependency with your routine

 

[Xorkoth]

Tell me a little about the cold turkey withdrawals. Was it when you used Kratom every day for weeks/months?

What would be better? To use Kratom 3 days on, 3 days off. Or... to use it 7 days off, 7 days on? If you HAD to choose one of those?

If I had to choose one of those, I would choose 3 days on, 3 off, and NOT 7 days on/7 off. However, in reality I would choose a different schedule, and never take it more than one day in a row. I think it is only a matter of time before you start experiencing some withdrawals on your days off. The longer you use opiates regularly, the easier it will be to slip into dependence. Ad of you're already using it as often as you can get away with, trust me when I say it is SO easy to justify "just cheating this once". Before long, you'll be doing some every day, and then just trying to justify to yourself how much you're doing every day. The end result of this is very high dosages of kratom every day, and withdrawals starting mere hours after the last dose. It's really a shitty lifestyle.

If you can manage to never use 2 days in a row, I think you'll have a better chance f avoiding developing dependence, than if you keep up this 3, 4, 5, 6, or 7 days in a row before taking some days off.

 

[brokedownpalace10]

My girlfriend loves Kratom for housework. I give it to her once a week at a gram or two. Since it is not me, I haven't really been able to monitor properly any "urges". She says that she wants to do it more often, but has said that since day one. Cdin, saying "every two weeks" worries me since I would think that more with something like Gabapentin.

 

[Asparagus_Prince]

This post is intended for anyone that has helped me out in this thread: But mostly directed towards those of you that have already tried to help me out: Snafu in the Void, BK38, and my new friends cdin and Xorkoth (why won't these names hyperlink so you can get the alerts? If there's a way to address multiple members, someone please let me know)

But based on what I've told you are you guys surprised I haven't already experienced WDs?

Again to summarize, I have been using Kratom fairly regularly for about a year or so. Earlier this year I had more off-days BUT larger doses. I'm going to estimate I used Kratom on about 40% of days. BUT I was using much higher doses. I know I used 30g in a day many times earlier in the year, and found out quickly at least one of the purposes behind the "less is more" theory.

But over the past few months my Kratom days have increased to more like 70%. But my dosing is far less. Almost always 7g per day.

So, I'm guessing my dosing in any given month has balanced out to be about the same.

SO... my question is: Are you guys surprised I haven't experienced WDs yet? Or, is a year not long enough and/or have I given myself just enough breaks to avoid that? But you suspect I'm on PACE to eventually experience WDs.

Again, I'll say that I do NOT know what opioid or Benzo WDs are like. I HAVE abused them. But just for a couple three days and then I want to get back to reality (which often includes stimulants).

My plan is to cut back the frequency. After today I'm going to give myself at least a 1 week break from Kratom, then I'll probably start toying around with once or maybe twice per week. I'm also going to trim the dosage back from 1 tablespoon to 2 teaspoons (so, roughly 4.7g instead of 7g).

I would LOVE to use it most days, but I can embrace Kratom as an occasional thing. Might as well commit to that before I go down a rabbit hole, right? I can stick with Adderall and as-needed Gapapentin as my primary drugs, with Kratom as my bonus, occasional treat to give myself short breaks from the others.

 

[kiely]

This post is intended for anyone that has helped me out in this thread: But mostly directed towards those of you that have already tried to help me out: Snafu in the Void, BK38, and my new friends cdin and Xorkoth (why won't these names hyperlink so you can get the alerts?

^^^ @Snafu in the Void, @BK38

@cdin and @Xorkoth


use the @ sign

 

[Snafu in the Void]

This post is intended for anyone that has helped me out in this thread: But mostly directed towards those of you that have already tried to help me out: Snafu in the Void, BK38, and my new friends cdin and Xorkoth (why won't these names hyperlink so you can get the alerts? If there's a way to address multiple members, someone please let me know)

But based on what I've told you are you guys surprised I haven't already experienced WDs?

Again to summarize, I have been using Kratom fairly regularly for about a year or so. Earlier this year I had more off-days BUT larger doses. I'm going to estimate I used Kratom on about 40% of days. BUT I was using much higher doses. I know I used 30g in a day many times earlier in the year, and found out quickly at least one of the purposes behind the "less is more" theory.

But over the past few months my Kratom days have increased to more like 70%. But my dosing is far less. Almost always 7g per day.

So, I'm guessing my dosing in any given month has balanced out to be about the same.

SO... my question is: Are you guys surprised I haven't experienced WDs yet? Or, is a year not long enough and/or have I given myself just enough breaks to avoid that? But you suspect I'm on PACE to eventually experience WDs.

Again, I'll say that I do NOT know what opioid or Benzo WDs are like. I HAVE abused them. But just for a couple three days and then I want to get back to reality (which often includes stimulants).

My plan is to cut back the frequency. After today I'm going to give myself at least a 1 week break from Kratom, then I'll probably start toying around with once or maybe twice per week. I'm also going to trim the dosage back from 1 tablespoon to 2 teaspoons (so, roughly 4.7g instead of 7g).

I would LOVE to use it most days, but I can embrace Kratom as an occasional thing. Might as well commit to that before I go down a rabbit hole, right? I can stick with Adderall and as-needed Gapapentin as my primary drugs, with Kratom as my bonus, occasional treat to give myself short breaks from the others.

It's not that surprising. If you can go 2+ days without kratom and feel fine (and sleep ok) you are not physically dependent.

The general consensus, at least on this forum, is that withdrawal from <10g per day is minimal (clinically insignificant) or even nonexistent. However, this excludes people who deal with chronic pain or people who have been dependent on opioids before (kindling). And everyone is different, age, sex, weight, etc all play a major factor in dependence.

There is also a major difference between physical and psychological dependence. Psychological dependence can actually precipitate psychosomatic symptoms, but there is still a clear difference.

I would encourage you to keep taking multiple days off kratom, don't exceed 10g, dont dose multiple times per day, and you will be fine, at least from a serious problem.

Kratom is quite forgiving in this matter, at least compared to other opioids.

But I should also note that I, as many others here as well, have all experienced extreme withdrawal from opioids or other drugs. So what we might consider "minimal or non existent withdrawal", might be quite unpleasant for someone who has never experienced it. I guess I'm a bit hardened and used to feeling a bit (or a lot) of withdrawal and chemical imbalances after so many years.

 

[cdin]

This post is intended for anyone that has helped me out in this thread: But mostly directed towards those of you that have already tried to help me out: Snafu in the Void, BK38, and my new friends cdin and Xorkoth (why won't these names hyperlink so you can get the alerts? If there's a way to address multiple members, someone please let me know)

But based on what I've told you are you guys surprised I haven't already experienced WDs?

Again to summarize, I have been using Kratom fairly regularly for about a year or so. Earlier this year I had more off-days BUT larger doses. I'm going to estimate I used Kratom on about 40% of days. BUT I was using much higher doses. I know I used 30g in a day many times earlier in the year, and found out quickly at least one of the purposes behind the "less is more" theory.

But over the past few months my Kratom days have increased to more like 70%. But my dosing is far less. Almost always 7g per day.

So, I'm guessing my dosing in any given month has balanced out to be about the same.

SO... my question is: Are you guys surprised I haven't experienced WDs yet? Or, is a year not long enough and/or have I given myself just enough breaks to avoid that? But you suspect I'm on PACE to eventually experience WDs.

Again, I'll say that I do NOT know what opioid or Benzo WDs are like. I HAVE abused them. But just for a couple three days and then I want to get back to reality (which often includes stimulants).

My plan is to cut back the frequency. After today I'm going to give myself at least a 1 week break from Kratom, then I'll probably start toying around with once or maybe twice per week. I'm also going to trim the dosage back from 1 tablespoon to 2 teaspoons (so, roughly 4.7g instead of 7g).

I would LOVE to use it most days, but I can embrace Kratom as an occasional thing. Might as well commit to that before I go down a rabbit hole, right? I can stick with Adderall and as-needed Gapapentin as my primary drugs, with Kratom as my bonus, occasional treat to give myself short breaks from the others.

not shocking to me. The first part of a developing opioid habit is the part where you've used it regularly for a while and you are convinced that you are the genetic freak of the earth who cannot get an opioid habit. There is a certain critical mass of receptor downregulation that has to occur before it actually sticks. seeing as that your brain is still fairly new to all these types of compounds, and you have not had a habit before, that does not shock me at all. That's part of what gets people to let their guard down and go over the line, (which gets lower w repeat dosing over time). it's a complicated dance, but no, i am not surprised by that at all. and yeah, i 100% support your decision to stick w it as a special bonus.

 

[ItsclearlyFake]

not shocking to me. The first part of a developing opioid habit is the part where you've used it regularly for a while and you are convinced that you are the genetic freak of the earth who cannot get an opioid habit. There is a certain critical mass of receptor downregulation that has to occur before it actually sticks. seeing as that your brain is still fairly new to all these types of compounds, and you have not had a habit before, that does not shock me at all. That's part of what gets people to let their guard down and go over the line, (which gets lower w repeat dosing over time). it's a complicated dance, but no, i am not surprised by that at all. and yeah, i 100% support your decision to stick w it as a special bonus.

Yeap. I think you nailed. First year of my Kratom use I think I went a full year doing it almost each fucking day every night. Then I would go to vacation or even run out by some reason and experience 0 physical withdrawal. I would daydream or desire having it but physical discomfort or mental disturbance whatsoever. Or course I thought I was that genetic freak! Or that kratom was indeed a wonder drug and it was "nothing like an opiate".

Things radically changed afterwards though...I recently finally kicked the habit after 3-4 year use, currently on day 10 and wishing I would have quit it way sooner, I feel my body hasn't yet learned to function without the damn plant..feels like physical withdrawal symptoms are definitely over but sometimes during the day if I'm sitting doing nothing I just feel the body doesn't feel "right" and of course I get a craving for kratom. I suspect this is are not just cravings but that the chemical downregulation hasn't truly reverted yet (which wouldn't be shocking though since only been 10 days Vs +3 years of daily use, but still...it scares how naive I was that I indeed thought I was a " genetic freak of the earth who cannot get an opioid habit." )

 

[cdin]

Yeap. I think you nailed. First year of my Kratom use I think I went a full year doing it almost each fucking day every night. Then I would go to vacation or even run out by some reason and experience 0 physical withdrawal. I would daydream or desire having it but physical discomfort or mental disturbance whatsoever. Or course I thought I was that genetic freak! Or that kratom was indeed a wonder drug and it was "nothing like an opiate".

Things radically changed afterwards though...I recently finally kicked the habit after 3-4 year use, currently on day 10 and wishing I would have quit it way sooner, I feel my body hasn't yet learned to function without the damn plant..feels like physical withdrawal symptoms are definitely over but sometimes during the day if I'm sitting doing nothing I just feel the body doesn't feel "right" and of course I get a craving for kratom. I suspect this is are not just cravings but that the chemical downregulation hasn't truly reverted yet (which wouldn't be shocking though since only been 10 days Vs +3 years of daily use, but still...it scares how naive I was that I indeed thought I was a " genetic freak of the earth who cannot get an opioid habit." )

if it makes you feel better - this thought process goes on in almost every one of the people I have met just getting started on a path of opioid abuse. Also - day 10 is a great accomplishment. And you are correct - a 3 year habit does not get reversed in 10 days. You are now in the phase known as "PAWS" (post acute withdrawal syndrome). I would expect you to start feeling a LOT better in the 60-90 day range.
Not so bad.

if that FEELS long - I went through a benzo withdrawal (about 1000x more painful, able to kill you) where the acute withdrawals lasted 9 MONTHS. of being completely disabled/near seizure/unable to use doorknobs for all the shaking etc. this was after 4/5 months of tapering.

 

[ItsclearlyFake]

if it makes you feel better - this thought process goes on in almost every one of the people I have met just getting started on a path of opioid abuse. Also - day 10 is a great accomplishment. And you are correct - a 3 year habit does not get reversed in 10 days. You are now in the phase known as "PAWS" (post acute withdrawal syndrome). I would expect you to start feeling a LOT better in the 60-90 day range.
Not so bad.

if that FEELS long - I went through a benzo withdrawal (about 1000x more painful, able to kill you) where the acute withdrawals lasted 9 MONTHS. of being completely disabled/near seizure/unable to use doorknobs for all the shaking etc. this was after 4/5 months of tapering.

Damn well thanks knowing that I´ll be more patient then...because I was getting concerned that how I am feeling most of the time is the "normal sober baseline". The literature of "withdrawals are done in 96 hours" can be true in the most obvious physical symptoms but there is no way in 96 hours one is the same as before he/she started the addiction...

Good news is last half year of use I was so sick of how little high it was getting me, and how many downsides I had because of the habit, I dont have the slightest desire to come back.

And holy shit the withdrawal from your benzo use, I knew that kind of drugs were tough to quit, but I wouldn't imagine that it would be that hardcore. That seems even worse than methadone wd