Kratom Kratom for days off heroin?

[menidiatis]

I'm a seasoned kratom vet. It absolutely can help. Where people fuck up is they get a low quality brand or they don't take enough. You might need to take four or five 8 gram doses to get you through the day. I usually maxed out at five or six gram doses and did it every 3 or 4 hours.
It scratches the itch enough that it's worth it to take it but there's still plenty of separate space if you were to draw a simple Venn diagram with heroin and kratom. And that's part of the beauty, it's a very different drug. And my humble opinion, I think your tolerance would drop if you took kratom as a replacement. Now again, if you think of a Venn diagram there is some overlap so maybe there is some sort of cross tolerance, and in my experience that crosstolerance has to do with the mental aspects.
Like when I quit heroin and jump to kratom, when I quit the kratom it's the mental aspects that makes it extremely difficult to quit. This is all just my two cents and my experience. Beware all the shitty vendors that have pretty websites and look legit- do your homework. I suggest trusting the hungry hungry hippo.

That's exactly the problem, I have yet to get good quality kratom

I simply can't find it not in Greece not in NL

 

[Derschieber]

What do you mean? I would always recommend someone not try opiates but the fact of the matter is, people do, so we should be able to talk about it without adopting a "just say no" approach among existing users.

But for the record, I wrote this piece years ago and I like to link to it when new users are asking if they should try opiates for the first time:

Opiates - Retrospective - Description of the Opiate High

I was in another thread today and I found this post I made a while ago, and I thought that the post would be better as a trip report. This report is written in 2nd person perspective and my goal with it is to give an accurate description of the total spectrum of the effects of opiates and...

bluelight.org

blah blah...you know exactly what I mean.

 

[Xorkoth]

blah blah...you know exactly what I mean.

I mean yeah I suspect I do, I just think you're off base. Are you saying the only response we should have is "don't do drugs"? Shouldn't there be a place for drug users to talk about doing drugs that doesn't involve judgement like most other places in society do? There is more to harm reduction than telling people not to do drugs.

Like I said, whenever someone posts a thread asking if they should start using opiates or other seriously addictive drugs, my first advice is "please think about not doing this, I wish every day I hadn't started and so have so many others". Once someone has already crossed that line, the advice changes to how to minimize harm. In the case of this thread, we're trying to help someone reduce and ultimately stop their use of heroin. I fail to see how recommending kratom or helping with a taper plan is not harm reduction.

Anyway you've posted threads about growing and doing poppy pods so I'm not sure where that high horse came from.

What's crawled up your ass today anyway? gtfo of here with calling people stupid for asking questions, that's not what we're about.

 

[Derschieber]

I mean yeah I suspect I do, I just think you're off base. Are you saying the only response we should have is "don't do drugs"? Shouldn't there be a place for drug users to talk about doing drugs that doesn't involve judgement like most other places in society do? There is more to harm reduction than telling people not to do drugs.

Like I said, whenever someone posts a thread asking if they should start using opiates or other seriously addictive drugs, my first advice is "please think about not doing this, I wish every day I hadn't started and so have so many others". Once someone has already crossed that line, the advice changes to how to minimize harm. In the case of this thread, we're trying to help someone reduce and ultimately stop their use of heroin. I fail to see how recommending kratom or helping with a taper plan is not harm reduction.

Anyway you've posted threads about growing and doing poppy pods so I'm not sure where that high horse came from.

What's crawled up your ass today anyway? gtfo of here with calling people stupid for asking questions, that's not what we're about.

Try to be calm. You're being hysterical.
You're the only one here engaged in name-calling. You're making a fool of yourself for no apparent reason.
There is no high horse. It's all in your head.
I suggest you take some time out...

 

[Xorkoth]

I didn't call you any names, I just wondered what your deal is today because you usually aren't rude like this. I'm also pretty far from hysterical, lol.

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

I find that taking kratom only for a day or two will lower ones tolerance to H and/or other opioids in that it doesnt provide a full on attack on receptors. Be careful as these two are not (IMO/E) fully cross-tolerant and jumping back on the horse at the same speed may have a stronger effect and buck a mf. Just a seed for thought.
Carry on....
We gonna use what and when we use it is great to have some valid info on substances to help with not doing stupid shit. I appreciate it and always will.
Too late to "just say no" for me and many others. It's become culture.

 

[deficiT]

You're the only one here engaged in name-calling. You're making a fool of yourself

Makes sense.

I didn't call you any names, I just wondered what your deal is today because you usually aren't rude like this. I'm also pretty far from hysterical, lol.

Have you tried using your inside voice? God, what a Karen.

 

[Derschieber]

I didn't call you any names, I just wondered what your deal is today because you usually aren't rude like this. I'm also pretty far from hysterical, lol.

You're right. You didn't call names. There is no deal, no rudeness. Only two short sentences.
Followed by what appears to be hysterics.

Now that we're calm, and since I did open my big mouth, I feel obligated to explain...damn it.
The OP recently posted this:

"...I encourage people to check my first threads on heroin, see with what arrogance I was talking about using this drug, as if it is some sort of joke that you can quit any day, like weed or something and to check my more recent threads, where I beg for advice like a helpless child on how to get off this thing..."

So I did...read it all.
Like a lamb to the slaughter.
You think I'm being rude? Stiff shit.
You don't know what I mean? BS

I'll excuse the OP's unbecoming remarks...seeing he's got his hands full right now begging like a helpless child...or whatever

The entire situation as far as I can see...is quiet frankly...disgusting. No high horse is required to see that.
This isn't leveled against you, or anyone.
It is what it is.
Harm reduction my ass.

 

[Xorkoth]

You're right. You didn't call names. There is no deal, no rudeness. Only two short sentences.
Followed by what appears to be hysterics.

Now that we're calm, and since I did open my big mouth, I feel obligated to explain...damn it.
The OP recently posted this:

"...I encourage people to check my first threads on heroin, see with what arrogance I was talking about using this drug, as if it is some sort of joke that you can quit any day, like weed or something and to check my more recent threads, where I beg for advice like a helpless child on how to get off this thing..."

So I did...read it all.
Like a lamb to the slaughter.
You think I'm being rude? Stiff shit.
You don't know what I mean? BS

I'll excuse the OP's unbecoming remarks...seeing he's got his hands full right now begging like a helpless child...or whatever

The entire situation as far as I can see...is quiet frankly...disgusting. No high horse is required to see that.
This isn't leveled against you, or anyone.
It is what it is.
Harm reduction my ass.

I don't understand what you mean, honestly. Why is this thread disgusting? The OP is concerned about their heroin addiction. Through the course of this thread (and some others by him about the same issue), we have gone from him saying heroin is the best decision he ever made, to realizing that it is a trap and wanting to get off. Now we're working on helping him with a plan to get off. How is that not harm reduction?

This whole side conversation is way off topic but I'm pretty confused by what your issue is. You're acting like you're being helpful or something, but your language is judgmental and dismissive ("begging like a helpless child", "stupid questions"). if you don't want to help, at least don't try to make him feel worse than he already does. EDIT: Okay fine I see you're quoting his words with the "helpless child"comment. But what are you trying to accomplish here?

To @menidiatis, just ignore him, there's no point insulting him and it just perpetuates it. And personal attacks are against the rules, too so let's all try to move past that. It would be best to clean this thread up a bit as this little diversion is off-topic and unhelpful.

 

[Derschieber]

I don't understand what you mean, honestly. Why is this thread disgusting? The OP is concerned about their heroin addiction. Through the course of this thread (and some others by him about the same issue), we have gone from him saying heroin is the best decision he ever made, to realizing that it is a trap and wanting to get off. Now we're working on helping him with a plan to get off. How is that not harm reduction?

This whole side conversation is way off topic but I'm pretty confused by what your issue is. You're acting like you're being helpful or something, but your language is judgmental and dismissive ("begging like a helpless child", "stupid questions"). if you don't want to help, at least don't try to make him feel worse than he already does. EDIT: Okay fine I see you're quoting his words with the "helpless child"comment. But what are you trying to accomplish here?

To @menidiatis, just ignore him, there's no point insulting him and it just perpetuates it. And personal attacks are against the rules, too so let's all try to move past that. It would be best to clean this thread up a bit as this little diversion is off-topic and unhelpful.

No one said this thread is disgusting. I'm not 'acting' like anything. I 'dismiss' the notion as BS that you or anyone else here is having trouble understanding what I originally said.
I resent your suggestion that using & expressing one's 'Judgement' is to be frowned upon. Are you not judging me for the imagined crime of using language that is "judgmental and dismissive" ?
Your hypocrisy is breath-taking. For example...in your judgement, does " just ignore him..." seem dismissive to you? And in case you missed it...that's you actively encouraging others to engage in the very acts you (falsely) accuse me of.

I suggested some time out. You seemed somewhat hysterical. That was me politely pointing out the obvious. . (SNIP) (SNIP) (SNIPPITY) (SNIP) for mocking me as a Karen.

I do share the HR philosophy which you were so quick to 'defend' against my plain comment. I have read countless examples of HR where you have reached out with remarkable insight, skill and compassion, including right here in this thread.

The 'stupid question' I referred to earlier is "What do you mean?" I apologize. It is not a stupid question, nor a foolish one. Unfortunately, your question was accompanied by your lengthy reply before I could ever answer you, and hence I mistook it as a stupid one.
It wasn't stupid. It was disingenuous. One might well ask "what are YOU trying to accomplish" by claiming not to understand me whilst in the same breath responding (at length) as one who understands more about what I mean than I even do.

As for me, my remark stands. It doesn't have to, nor does it need to accomplish anything. Now however, I hope to accomplish my defense against the extraordinary & unwarranted hysteria leveled against me. I don't pretend to understand why you responded in the way that you did.

I believe something has gone very wrong in this particular Heroin HR scenario. I suspect you can sense it too.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

@Derschieber good post except for the " Fuck you and your administrator buddy" Would you please delete those 6 words out of your post. Thanks.

I get that a member called you a karen and that wasn't nice either but the thread is good if we can cease and desist with the insults going forward. Appreciate it.

 

[Derschieber]

@Derschieber good post except for the " Fuck you and your administrator buddy" Would you please delete those 6 words out of your post. Thanks.

I get that a member called you a karen and that wasn't nice either but the thread is good if we can cease and desist with the insults going forward. Appreciate it.

Fair enough. I only talk like that to admin

 

[deficiT]

No one said this thread is disgusting.

+

The entire situation as far as I can see...is quiet frankly...disgusting.

=

didn't call you any names, I just wondered what your deal is today because you usually aren't rude like this.

Actually, yes, yes he is. He's only got numerous warnings for abusing others members going back years.

I get that a member called you a karen

No one called him a Karen. I called Xorkoth a Karen, jokingly, because derschieber referred to him as hysterical.

He just can't read context and feigns feeling disrespected so he can continue to disrespect everyone else with impunity.

But no, this is going to stop, judgement is left at the door, no one cares about your critical analysis of the OPs situation.

 

[menidiatis]

Why do my posts get deleted as off topic and personal insults while his post calling me a fool is still here?

 

[deficiT]

Why do my posts get deleted as off topic and personal insults while this idiot 's post calling me a fool is still here?

I'm still cleaning up the thread. I have a lot of different things to do and get distracted by different tasks.

And because, an off topic personal spat, is an off topic personal spat. It doesn't matter who started it or whatever, or who's in the right.

You're not getting a warning for it, so it's literally just a deleted comment because it serves no functional purpose.

But like I said, this isn't going to continue or I will take more dickish measures.

 

[Derschieber]

this is going to stop, judgement is left at the door,

This is really important. Extremely important.
Please, explain in great detail exactly what does it mean. What is left at the door ??

 

[deficiT]

This is really important. Extremely important.
Please, explain in great detail exactly what does it mean. What is left at the door ??

Your judgement. Your moral analysis of the OPs situation, or of what you consider to be "harm reduction", and whatever other criticisms you have that serve no functional or useful purpose.

 

[Derschieber]

Your judgement. Your moral analysis of the OPs situation, or of what you consider to be "harm reduction", and whatever other criticisms you have that serve no functional or useful purpose.

Yes, that is what I thought.
My Judgement. My Analysis. My Consideration. My Critique. Just leave all that at the door.

Look at it....it reads like a delinquent child's wish-list. This is especially alarming since my 'remarks' have not yet included moral judgments or anything even remotely approaching an analysis of the OP's situation or Harm Reduction.

I believe something has gone very wrong in this particular Heroin HR scenario. Of course I'll change my mind once you've successfully lobotomized me "at the door".

Good luck with that, Champ.

 

[darvocet21]

I think I'm going to have to close down this thread.

 

[darvocet21]

Man that felt good...... just saying it