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Kratom Kratom for days off heroin?

M

menidiatis

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 24, 2021
Messages
479
I am pushing my luck and I see that I can't stop using heroin more than 1 day. My dependence is currently psychological, but the way it goes soon I'll have physical dependence as well.

My question is, is it possible to use kratom during off days for heroin? Or do they have cross tolerance and it will accelerate how fast I get physically dependent on heroin?
 
Some say kratom will make pain pills/heroin/fent less euphoric and other's say they don't notice any difference. Some say that they have to take double their dose of heroin because the kratom raised their tolerance so much.

It's really hard to say. People that take upwards of 50 grams per day probably need an extra bump of their doc but someone dosing at 10 grams a day ( or less ) probably will still feel their regular dose just fine.

Kratom is a weird duck with so many different alkaloids and the effects ( and tolerance ) of people taking it is widely differ. Some WD from kratom...some don't. I guess it really comes down to how much ( and how long ) we consume it.

Hope your plan works to alternate with the heroin and I hope to see you kick it eventually. Hang in there. Stay strong.
 
menidiatis said:
My question is, is it possible to use kratom during off days for heroin?
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I would say yes. Not sure what the dose of H is but kratom will certainly keep the edge off. I would stay as low as possible on the kratom as to not build a tolerance too quickly but if it's just for a few days for breaks I say go for it.
I think the main thing with kratom vs H is that kratom hits all kinds of different receptors whereas opiates focus one maybe one or two. Kratom can def help stave off the H but it depends on many factors...: Is it H? Is there other additives that we do not know about? Could there be a fent analogues about somewhere. These factors will determine how efficient kratom with be on t-breaks.
Just my experience with the two but we had more real H back then (I think lol ).
What was the H dose and what is the planned kratom regimen?
 
menidiatis said:
I am pushing my luck and I see that I can't stop using heroin more than 1 day. My dependence is currently psychological
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Okay, you're admitting to psychological dependence already, and you can't stay off the stuff for more than a day. That means you're not a candidate for moderation ; at least not currently. 'Cause the thing with moderation is you really need a moderate APPETITE. You clearly have an excessive appetite right now, and so long as you do, you won't moderate. You will always end up using according to your level of desire, not according to your better intentions. (Take it from me. I tried moderation when really I was still wanting it all the time, and it ended in disaster. Surprise.)

I'd take a good long break if I was you, and I mean a COMPLETE break.
 
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Morphine (guess heroin being diamorphine is same) withdrawal doesn't kick in instantly but at day 2, at least for me. Possibility is that you're already hooked. Good news is, we have a load of tools against that. Bad news is, most of them need prescription in most countries.

It's certainly possible to use kratom on the days off. I'd wait until you feel a bit bad and then drink a strong cup of kratom. Don't mix them though, this gave me my first respiratory depression (was way before that but I suspect somehow a fentalogue). Kratom's only partially cross tolerant, I was tolerant to 120mg/d pharma morphine from before up to 600mg/d and the first cup of red vein kratom, on a day off, sent me straight to bed/nod.

But with kratom you're just pushing the addiction, as both are opioids. You needa decide whether you want to live with or without opioids, NOW. This is irreversible. If you're a guy, you need to take testosterone into the calculation. Opioids fake you cuddly warmth but take away your strength. You won't be the same person after a real addiction+withdrawal. Remember this. I thought I'd easily stand this, knowing some pharma tools which can circumvent withdrawal like NMDA antagonists (dissociatives) or pregabalin but yeah you can circumvent the misery but not the personality and physical changes.
 
I still don't get it

Will kratom just make opiate addiction worse? Or is it a separate addiction that can actually help with staying off H?

I understand that if in addition to H I would also take let's say oxy and/or fentanyl then my H tolerance would increase.

But is it the same with Kratom??

Ideally my pattern would be
Day 1 (no work next day so I don't need to take benzo in the night to sleep) Heroin

Day 2 kratom / eti in the night to sleep

Day 3 kratom / eti in the night to sleep

Day 4 alcohol / eti in the night to sleep

Repeat

With 1 day use 3 days off it sounds rather unlikely to me that physical dependence could occur, which is the actual problem
 
Never mind just found out half life of kratom is between 24 and 40 hours so I cannot risk taking benzo after doing it as I would risk cns depression.

So prolly day 1: heroin and days 2-4: alcohol and/or eti

And maybe switch the eti every round for phenibut

I don't have a problem with eti dependence, as I take max 1.5mg per day, usually 0.75mg in evening to sleep, if alcohol already calms me. Enough I don't take it at all, so far after months of usage I do not have any WD on days I don't use it
 
plumbus-nine said:
I would worry more about the eti you seem to take daily?

Kratom will just continue opioid addiction, not make it worse or induce another dependence.
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I have no problem at all with eti, never had withdrawal and I don't have a tendency to abuse it, I only take 0. 75mg during daytime if severe anxiety and another that much in night to sleep

Some days I don't use at all and never had WD. If I don't use heroin then I use it every day, unless alcohol calms me. Down enough and I have no anxiety /can sleep
Then again I skip eti no prob
 
plumbus-nine said:
Alcohol is worse than benzo, you're fine with a light benzo + kratom but don't do the booze. Phenibut too is GABAergic and theoretically increases the risk for respiratory depression.
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I have high tolerance to alcohol. Even with several beers, 0. 75mg eti don't cause anything close to respiratory depression for me

I ve done it many times
 
menidiatis said:
I still don't get it

Will kratom just make opiate addiction worse? Or is it a separate addiction that can actually help with staying off H?

I understand that if in addition to H I would also take let's say oxy and/or fentanyl then my H tolerance would increase.

But is it the same with Kratom??

Ideally my pattern would be
Day 1 (no work next day so I don't need to take benzo in the night to sleep) Heroin

Day 2 kratom / eti in the night to sleep

Day 3 kratom / eti in the night to sleep

Day 4 alcohol / eti in the night to sleep

Repeat

With 1 day use 3 days off it sounds rather unlikely to me that physical dependence could occur, which is the actual problem
Click to expand...
I use kratom to curb cravings for H and it works wonders. I never take kratom and think "man I wish I was on H instead". Sure, it's nowhere near the same high (kratom feels a hell of a lot more mild, but I've only ever done smoke shop kratom, I've heard the top shelf stuff you can find online is likely to be a hell of a lot better), but I'm pretty sure it hits the same receptors in the brain and that makes it stop the cravings for me personally.

As for cross-tolerance, that varies from person to person. I haven't used H since I started using kratom so I have no clue whether there's any cross there. Some people report a cross-tolerance developing and others do not. Probably has a lot to do with frequency of dosing and amount you take per dose.

You do want to be careful regularly dosing kratom, though. Some people do become dependent on it and suffer from withdrawal symptoms similar to other opiates/opioids, like heroin. IF you're gonna use kratom, keep your doses to like 4g to 6g a day. Less is more with kratom and you just need to make sure to take enough to feel it. If I take anymore than 6g at a time I start to get nauseous and develop a headache that lasts until I start coming down.

menidiatis said:
I have high tolerance to alcohol. Even with several beers, 0. 75mg eti don't cause anything close to respiratory depression for me

I ve done it many times
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Maybe so, but still, when it comes to things that can possibly do you harm, it's better not to gamble, yeah?
 
TheFrogEffect said:
I use kratom to curb cravings for H and it works wonders. I never take kratom and think "man I wish I was on H instead". Sure, it's nowhere near the same high (kratom feels a hell of a lot more mild, but I've only ever done smoke shop kratom, I've heard the top shelf stuff you can find online is likely to be a hell of a lot better), but I'm pretty sure it hits the same receptors in the brain and that makes it stop the cravings for me personally.

As for cross-tolerance, that varies from person to person. I haven't used H since I started using kratom so I have no clue whether there's any cross there. Some people report a cross-tolerance developing and others do not. Probably has a lot to do with frequency of dosing and amount you take per dose.

You do want to be careful regularly dosing kratom, though. Some people do become dependent on it and suffer from withdrawal symptoms similar to other opiates/opioids, like heroin. IF you're gonna use kratom, keep your doses to like 4g to 6g a day. Less is more with kratom and you just need to make sure to take enough to feel it. If I take anymore than 6g at a time I start to get nauseous and develop a headache that lasts until I start coming down.


Maybe so, but still, when it comes to things that can possibly do you harm, it's better not to gamble, yeah?
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It s better not to gamble but I can't afford ending up homeless because I am crippled from insomnia and panic attacks and can't work , so if I have to live life on benzos so be it
 
I will just add that I got off H, fent, oxy, hydro and nost any other opioid with kratom and phenibut years ago. It did not increase my addiction and the few times I ran out were a hell of a lot easier on me than opiate WDs. Barely noticing kratom wds (if it can be called that).
I was in full WD before I opted for the kratom but that sweet leaf worked for me.
peace
 
6am-64-14m said:
I will just add that I got off H, fent, oxy, hydro and nost any other opioid with kratom and phenibut years ago. It did not increase my addiction and the few times I ran out were a hell of a lot easier on me than opiate WDs. Barely noticing kratom wds (if it can be called that).
I was in full WD before I opted for the kratom but that sweet leaf worked for me.
peace
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It keeps me on the straight and narrow as well. Long live kratom.
 
6am-64-14m said:
I will just add that I got off H, fent, oxy, hydro and nost any other opioid with kratom and phenibut years ago. It did not increase my addiction and the few times I ran out were a hell of a lot easier on me than opiate WDs. Barely noticing kratom wds (if it can be called that).
I was in full WD before I opted for the kratom but that sweet leaf worked for me.
peace
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In my experience WD from pure opium is the damned worst. I managed to do enough at one time to become physically hooked and I thought coming off H was bad. I thought coming off methadone was worse. Coming off opium FUUUCKK.
I had massive heart palpitations and was convinced I was about to die of an infarction more than once. (which is a real risk with opium wd by the way.)
My anxiety / restlessness level was through the roof. The nausea was crippling. I had the shakes like an alcoholic. I seriously never wanna go through anything like it ever again.
 
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Withdrew from oxy 40 milligrams a day and I'm on day 14 withdrawal. Legs hurt but use 20 mg klonopin a day at night to sleep. Take a 800 mg neurontin in the morning to calm me down. I find one builds a really fast tolerance to neurontin. Tried kratom a few times and felt nothing. There are super potent extracts of kratom which I never tried because I feel they may have a very high possibility of addiction. Coming off of oxy feels like a constant adrenaline rush which is why I use the above meds. Getting off of neurontin has been easy for me but klonopin will be a very slow taper.
 
menidiatis said:
It s better not to gamble but I can't afford ending up homeless because I am crippled from insomnia and panic attacks and can't work , so if I have to live life on benzos so be it
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I've been homeless before and it absolutely blows. Luckily I had a car to sleep in, which kept me out of shit weather. But still. Not a good spot to find yourself in.
 
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