Misc Kratom -- Anyone?

[MoreFeens4Morphine]

Just throwing some experience into the pile...
There is one thing I will say though. YOU CAN'T TREAT KRATOM LIKE A RECREATIONAL DRUG. Not only will you be disappointed, but you'll be sick from shoveling too much leaf into your face trying to force a "high", and you'll convince yourself of false things which leads to placebo withdrawals and side-effects. Kratom does not get you HIGH, it's not meant for that!! Kratom is an experience-enhancer, not an experience-maker. If you have disorienting effects, strong sedation, nodding, anything like that, you're taking way too much for your body. My dose is high due to years of tolerance building atop an already strong opioid tolerance, not because I'm trying to nod off. Maybe it's because I have this attitude towards kratom that it hasn't caused me any issues?

Keep kratom legal by not trying to get high on it. If people were selling coffee in headshops with names like "MegaEUPHORIA" or "Herbal Ecstasy" and idiots kept trying to get twacked out on it and kept ending up in ER's, that'd become illegal soon too. Kratom is doomed due to fuck heads and I'm pissed about it. You're going to get a good thing taken away from me and thousands of other responsible users because a few idiots who are too scared to try heroin or too anti-social to score some pills keep trying to get "smacked-out" on 20g's of ground up leaves....

Couldn't have been worded better. I tried for way too long to make it something it wasn't. And because of that I've discontinued all use of it. Good post though.

-MF4M

 

[Mycophile]

Just throwing some experience into the pile...

I've been an avid kratom user for....jeez going on ~5 years now give or take a year. I've been using daily with minimal breaks for a little over half of that time. My dose varies from ~7-9 grams, often twice a day on a habitual routine: Once in the morning after waking up, and another after lunch. Occasionally, I'll take a third dose at night but that's rare. I've shared kratom with many friends who have absolutely loved it, none have reported any issues, and I even have a few friends with kicked-harder-opiates-with-kratom stories to tell. Even with my usage at this level, I've stopped cold turkey many times before (WITHOUT any aides like weed or benzos) with minimal "withdrawal" symptoms, hard to even call them that. The absolute worst symptom is insomnia, and that only lasts a few days, if that. Nothing some benedryl and a couple glasses of wine can't fix, especially if you have some weed. This week, I'm trying to lower my tolerance simply to get better effects from my doses, so I've been lowering my habitual dose every day by literally a full gram each day. Hasn't made a difference to my days or nights whatsoever! No anxiety, no insomnia, no cold sweats, no potty issues, no depression, no craving, absolutely nothing. I've had things like phenibut, prolintane, and percocet cause more immediate dependence and subsequent withdrawal effects within a matter of days of use/abuse. Kratom and I are going on years, and we're still friends. Shit, even not having weed to smoke makes me drink like a fish... But kratom? Whatever.

I'd be lying if I said the thought of "I might be doing some harm by using this often, this much, and for this long" hasn't crossed my mind. However, I really have to say, nothing bad has happened, or seems to be happening. I never have any potty problems, I poop quite regularly and healthily. I have a healthy appetite too. I haven't ever experienced the mythical "jaundice" (which I believe was dis-proven anyway). I often check myself by skipping a dose, and aside from simply feeling like a part of my routine is missing, nothing bad happens at all. ANY distraction and it's out of my head. At this point, kratom and coffee are nearly on par with each other regarding their contribution to my daily life and their importance. There is not a single aspect of my life or my usage that is representative of a typical opioid-addicted person's lifestyle (and no, I'm not thinking that Requiem for a Dream is a typical addict's life...).

There is one thing I will say though. YOU CAN'T TREAT KRATOM LIKE A RECREATIONAL DRUG. Not only will you be disappointed, but you'll be sick from shoveling too much leaf into your face trying to force a "high", and you'll convince yourself of false things which leads to placebo withdrawals and side-effects. Kratom does not get you HIGH, it's not meant for that!! Kratom is an experience-enhancer, not an experience-maker. If you have disorienting effects, strong sedation, nodding, anything like that, you're taking way too much for your body. My dose is high due to years of tolerance building atop an already strong opioid tolerance, not because I'm trying to nod off. Maybe it's because I have this attitude towards kratom that it hasn't caused me any issues?

Keep kratom legal by not trying to get high on it. If people were selling coffee in headshops with names like "MegaEUPHORIA" or "Herbal Ecstasy" and idiots kept trying to get twacked out on it and kept ending up in ER's, that'd become illegal soon too. Kratom is doomed due to fuck heads and I'm pissed about it. You're going to get a good thing taken away from me and thousands of other responsible users because a few idiots who are too scared to try heroin or too anti-social to score some pills keep trying to get "smacked-out" on 20g's of ground up leaves....

While I definitely like your post for the most part, I have some minor disagreements on the bolded parts and I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to get high off of Kratom, as it is a mind altering substance.

Kratom might not get YOU high (though if it doesn't I am not sure why you like it??) but it DEFINITELY gets ME high...and overall is probably my favorite high aside from Shrooms.

I guess it is all semantics, but what it does to my brain is some very strong euphoria and so I'd refer to it as such.

Also, while Kratom's withdrawals are certainly nothing serious, they can be more unpleasant for some people than they seem to be for you, so I wouldn't necessarily tell anyone who gets uncomfortable withdrawals that they are wrong to feel that way.

Finally, if someone wants to take 20 grams why is that the issue that is "ruining Kratom"??

I took that much today in fact, felt very nice, no nausea whatsoever as it never causes me any, will probably feel mildly lethargic tomorrow and won't dose again till Saturday.

I'd prefer not to need so much, but mistakes early on led to a high tolerance, though I don't feel that dosing very high is what is "ruining" Kratom for anyone.

I'm not sure who the people are that are really "ruining" Kratom, more likely than not it's simply the FDA's getting some awareness of what it is and that it helps with the same issues as opiates but is safer that has it's status in trouble.

But overall this thread seems to have been proceeding with a fine tone till you entered with this rant so I am hoping it's not ME you are referring to???

If it is, I assure you I am not ruining Kratom for anyone.

My usage has remained enjoyable for the past 2 years since I discovered it, and the worst thing that has happened for me is that I got my tolerance to a point that was higher than I would have liked, but continue to avoid any physical dependence and never dose more than 2-3 days a week max, which is more than most Kratom users can say.

I would still refer to my own usage as "responsible" since I am not physically dependent in terms of needing to dose daily or even every other day, even despite my high tolerance.

While I understand the general point you are making, there are no universal golden rules as to the one single "right" way to use Kratom, nor are the perceptions of how people react to the "mood boost" or "high" meant to be universal.

There are general guidelines that are wise to follow, such as not getting yourself dependent or getting a massive tolerance, and there is general agreement on some of the mental and physical effects, but lets not get high and mighty about the one right way to use Kratom and all the people who use it incorrectly.

There are plenty who ARE irresponsible in their usage, but if you can say that you aren't chemically dependent and don't need to dose first thing every morning (unless you don't mind that of course), haven't ended up in the E.R., and find the experience it provides to be enjoyable, then IMO you can mark yourself amongst the "proper responsible" Kratom users.

 

[Znegative]

I imagine it might have been aimed at my post?

IDK, I agree with a lot of what is said by both of you. For me it's kind of a 'learning curve' with kratom. First of all, I used it to get off/replace suboxone, which I had used for a few months to get off of a really bad IV opiate addiction which I had been stuck on for years. I didn't know much about kratom when I first started taking it, and naturally just though 'more=better', which I came to understand isn't always true. Initially kratom gave me some very real euphoria. I will say though that no matter what dose I've taken, I've never come anywhere near to a nod on it, and I've really stopped chasing that. Even now though, there will still be some days where I take way more kratom then is necessary, and I often regret it because I really don't notice much of a difference between 8g and 16g taken by the T&W method. Over the last few days like I mentioned in my previous post I was able to reduce my consumption by nearly 75% of what I had been taking and I did this with pretty much 0 issues. This time around with this new huge kg that I got I'm going to try to keep my dosages lower and less frequently. Sometimes though I have a lot of time on my hands, feel depressed and alone, and can't help but try to boost my mood by taking some heroic dosage.

I don't really think making posts like this are ruining Kratoms public image, because the truth is, SO WHAT!? So I took 16g of kratom!? What I didn't do was shoot a large chunk of black tar heroin into my body, and I can thank the kratom for that.

Now I do think that misrepresenting what kratom is, is a bad thing. But the truth is, on blue light and on other drug forums, I really do not see many people making posts about kratom being a drug on par with heroin or other strong narcotics. It seems like it's really just the media that's misrepresenting it and trying to spread fear throughout the country because god forbid an unregulated plant can help millions of people with opiate addiction problems. I mean really, kratom is great as an ORT because it can only do so much, and it can really only be taken orally. If they want to take it away from us it's just because they're not making money off of it.

 

[Cosmic Trigger]

Well dosing will definitely affect it, but there's specific strains geared towards either stim', or sedation.



- SS373dOH Soul

I've used many and not found major differences other than dose.

 

[Cosmic Trigger]

I imagine it might have been aimed at my post?

IDK, I agree with a lot of what is said by both of you. For me it's kind of a 'learning curve' with kratom. First of all, I used it to get off/replace suboxone, which I had used for a few months to get off of a really bad IV opiate addiction which I had been stuck on for years. I didn't know much about kratom when I first started taking it, and naturally just though 'more=better', which I came to understand isn't always true. Initially kratom gave me some very real euphoria. I will say though that no matter what dose I've taken, I've never come anywhere near to a nod on it, and I've really stopped chasing that. Even now though, there will still be some days where I take way more kratom then is necessary, and I often regret it because I really don't notice much of a difference between 8g and 16g taken by the T&W method. Over the last few days like I mentioned in my previous post I was able to reduce my consumption by nearly 75% of what I had been taking and I did this with pretty much 0 issues. This time around with this new huge kg that I got I'm going to try to keep my dosages lower and less frequently. Sometimes though I have a lot of time on my hands, feel depressed and alone, and can't help but try to boost my mood by taking some heroic dosage.

I don't really think making posts like this are ruining Kratoms public image, because the truth is, SO WHAT!? So I took 16g of kratom!? What I didn't do was shoot a large chunk of black tar heroin into my body, and I can thank the kratom for that.

Now I do think that misrepresenting what kratom is, is a bad thing. But the truth is, on blue light and on other drug forums, I really do not see many people making posts about kratom being a drug on par with heroin or other strong narcotics. It seems like it's really just the media that's misrepresenting it and trying to spread fear throughout the country because god forbid an unregulated plant can help millions of people with opiate addiction problems. I mean really, kratom is great as an ORT because it can only do so much, and it can really only be taken orally. If they want to take it away from us it's just because they're not making money off of it.

agree

 

[Ziiirp]

Finally, if someone wants to take 20 grams why is that the issue that is "ruining Kratom"??

I took that much today in fact, felt very nice, no nausea whatsoever as it never causes me any, will probably feel mildly lethargic tomorrow and won't dose again till Saturday.

I'd prefer not to need so much, but mistakes early on led to a high tolerance, though I don't feel that dosing very high is what is "ruining" Kratom for anyone.

[...]

I would still refer to my own usage as "responsible" since I am not physically dependent in terms of needing to dose daily or even every other day, even despite my high tolerance.

While I understand the general point you are making, there are no universal golden rules as to the one single "right" way to use Kratom, nor are the perceptions of how people react to the "mood boost" or "high" meant to be universal.

There are general guidelines that are wise to follow, such as not getting yourself dependent or getting a massive tolerance, and there is general agreement on some of the mental and physical effects, but lets not get high and mighty about the one right way to use Kratom and all the people who use it incorrectly.

There are plenty who ARE irresponsible in their usage, but if you can say that you aren't chemically dependent and don't need to dose first thing every morning (unless you don't mind that of course), haven't ended up in the E.R., and find the experience it provides to be enjoyable, then IMO you can mark yourself amongst the "proper responsible" Kratom users.

Hmm, something does not seem right, here.

In general : What was the intention of the OP, not to write their question in the Kratom Megathread ?

 

[Mycophile]

Hmm, something does not seem right, here.

In general : What was the intention of the OP, not to write their question in the Kratom Megathread ?

What does "not seem right here"??

Please elucidate.

That my dosage sounds too high to be responsible or not land me in the E.R.??

All I can tell you is that's the way it is with my body and how I react to the drug and I've been experimenting for 2 years now so I know the ropes.

I know the dosages that will give me serious withdrawal the next day or two...in terms of not wanting to get out of bed...and haven't made the mistake of using those doses for 2 months now...usually that involves dosing TWICE in a day and going over an ounce.

IF I dose up to 20 grams I will feel MILD withdrawal for 1-2 days in terms of still being able to do everything i NEED to do, go to work, etc, but I won't have quite as much energy, and by day 3 MAX it is gone.

And I NEVER dose that high more than 2 days a week.

If there is a 3rd I don't dose higher than around 10 grams and my rule of thumb is I NEVER take FULL doses 2 days in a row (meaning if my dose exceeds 10 grams I won't dose the next day), and USUALLY I leave 2-3 days between dosing...so no matter what I don't dose Kratom AT ALL AT LEAST 4 days a week, sometimes 5.

So what doesn't "sound right" about my usage??

I just fucked up early on and made my tolerance really high but didn't dose enough days in a row to get to the point of needing to take it EVERY SINGLE day because whenever I started feeling REALLY shitty I'd just abstain for 3 or more days till that went away to dose again.

I'm already going to take another 3-4 week break after tomorrow as well in order to be more productive because the 1-2 days after dosing, while not leaving me in SERIOUS WD, can make me a bit lazier and interfere with certain goals of mine even though I am still generally functional.

Everyone responds differently to Kratom.

Some people just have naturally high tolerances that shoot up very quickly and I seem to be one of them.

 

[mike.vick]

OK so I know there's a thread on kratom, but I'd like to post something here so I can get some recent input on it.

I've been taking it for 2 years now (just about) and although it's addicting as hell, the worst it is is something fun to do in the evening. I liken it to smoking a joint. Except I don't like weed. It's addicting in that when the evening comes, I usually want to do some. However, during the day when my mind is preoccupied with work and other things I don't think about it. It's sort of like... coffee is my drug during the day, and kratom is my drug during the night. I am not proud of the frequency with which I take it in the evening (usually every night, with one or two days off during the week), but it hasn't completely been ruining my life. It's sort of like someone having a glass or two of wine every night. Has anyone had this experience with kratom? Or has anyone taken this drug at all?

Share your experiences.
Thank you

Yeah, it is a miracle herb for addiction. The fact that people can jump from heroin to this to sober and clean less painlessly should be enough for people to respect it.

 

[scarlet_tunic]

While I definitely like your post for the most part, I have some minor disagreements on the bolded parts and I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to get high off of Kratom, as it is a mind altering substance.

Kratom might not get YOU high (though if it doesn't I am not sure why you like it??) but it DEFINITELY gets ME high...and overall is probably my favorite high aside from Shrooms.

I guess it is all semantics, but what it does to my brain is some very strong euphoria and so I'd refer to it as such.

Also, while Kratom's withdrawals are certainly nothing serious, they can be more unpleasant for some people than they seem to be for you, so I wouldn't necessarily tell anyone who gets uncomfortable withdrawals that they are wrong to feel that way.

Finally, if someone wants to take 20 grams why is that the issue that is "ruining Kratom"??

I took that much today in fact, felt very nice, no nausea whatsoever as it never causes me any, will probably feel mildly lethargic tomorrow and won't dose again till Saturday.

I'd prefer not to need so much, but mistakes early on led to a high tolerance, though I don't feel that dosing very high is what is "ruining" Kratom for anyone.

I'm not sure who the people are that are really "ruining" Kratom, more likely than not it's simply the FDA's getting some awareness of what it is and that it helps with the same issues as opiates but is safer that has it's status in trouble.

But overall this thread seems to have been proceeding with a fine tone till you entered with this rant so I am hoping it's not ME you are referring to???

If it is, I assure you I am not ruining Kratom for anyone.

My usage has remained enjoyable for the past 2 years since I discovered it, and the worst thing that has happened for me is that I got my tolerance to a point that was higher than I would have liked, but continue to avoid any physical dependence and never dose more than 2-3 days a week max, which is more than most Kratom users can say.

I would still refer to my own usage as "responsible" since I am not physically dependent in terms of needing to dose daily or even every other day, even despite my high tolerance.

While I understand the general point you are making, there are no universal golden rules as to the one single "right" way to use Kratom, nor are the perceptions of how people react to the "mood boost" or "high" meant to be universal.

There are general guidelines that are wise to follow, such as not getting yourself dependent or getting a massive tolerance, and there is general agreement on some of the mental and physical effects, but lets not get high and mighty about the one right way to use Kratom and all the people who use it incorrectly.

There are plenty who ARE irresponsible in their usage, but if you can say that you aren't chemically dependent and don't need to dose first thing every morning (unless you don't mind that of course), haven't ended up in the E.R., and find the experience it provides to be enjoyable, then IMO you can mark yourself amongst the "proper responsible" Kratom users.

You're very lucky that you've been able to get your doses so low. I started with doing it that many times a week, but it's grown and I find myself craving it in the evening more and more, even when it doesn't give me too much of a buzz. What sometimes happens is that my body, after consecutive days and days, just finally kind of 'knows' I can't get high off it anymore, so I don't bother taking it. I like you have always enjoyed kratom -- immensely, even -- and to a point that not many people I Know also experience. Most people I have given it to take it and say it just made them drowsy. But my first time getting high on kratom was AMAZING (can't really get there anymore, unfortunately, but it is what it is)... it's still a hugely enjoyable buzz for me and though I mix the two together, I still prefer krat over alcohol.

TBH if it wasn't for my ex giving me codeine cold water extraction when I was sick one day, I probably never would have gotten on opiates in the first place. Because I went from codeine to kratom... sometimes I wish I'd never been introduced to these kind of drugs because my brain seems to have always picked up on them and loved them.. but then, it's just such an enjoyable buzz and it's SO much less calories than having a few beers at night! When most seemed to have picked up on loving pot and mushrooms and all of this other crazy stuff, my brain has never 100% reacted well with those.

I initially started doing it for that reason -- helped maintain my physique when I love intoxication, and no munchies like with pot or calories like with alcohol -- and I never see any downside to it except the tolerance increase, some mild constipation (which I am usually able to fix easily) and just having to spend money on it. I like to do it while writing, and I used to drink beer while writing. I am effectively saving 400+ calories from my diet.