ketamine cause loss of muscle?

[imonfire]

Does anyone else notice a difference in size after a few days using ketamine?

I'm a casual gym goer and I eat well, even when on ketsmine but after a session I seem to notice a loss of muscle mass

 

[crOOk]

You might lose some water which would decrease muscle volume, but since you are speaking of a "few days" the rest is probably dysmorphophobia as seen in many gym goers.^^

 

[imonfire]

Thanks for the reply

yeah I'll be the first to admit I suffer from body dismorphic disorder, it just seems after a couple days use that I've noticeably lost weight even though I keep my eating the same as when I'm sober

I may drink less water

 

[crOOk]

Thanks for the reply

yeah I'll be the first to admit I suffer from body dismorphic disorder, it just seems after a couple days use that I've noticeably lost weight even though I keep my eating the same as when I'm sober

I may drink less water

Well what does the scale say?

 

[Solipsis]

Who was it who said that dissociatives cause a mild form of rhamdomyolysis as well as certain depletions?

 

[crOOk]

Who was it who said that dissociatives cause a mild form of rhamdomyolysis as well as certain depletions?

Whut? Can cause or cause? How if the latter was proposed? Let me know if you find out.

@op
"The most frequent complications after ketamine abuse were severe agitation and rhabdomyolysis."
J Emerg Med. 2000 May;18(4):447-51.

I take back what i said earlier lol. But just so you know, plenty of drugs of every class can cause rhabdomyolysis, I'm not gonna try to list every single one. I once presented to the ER a day after an 1,4-BDO overdose while on DiPT due to stomach cramps and it turned out my creatine kinase levels were at 1534 IU per liter.

Might be of interest to you, especially the first one:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15774072
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11870710

Also, I'm not sure if you've thought about this yet, but it's possible that all the guys in the gym have already figured out you're a druggy now!

 

[imonfire]

Thank you both for taking the time to reply

Cr00k, figured out I'm a 'druggy' how?

I don't go to the gym under the influence, I work hard all week and enjoy ketamine on a weekend to chill out

plus, the amount of guys in any gym taking steroids, nobody is fit to calll anyone a druggy

 

[black53]

Do you also loose strength? Strength is imo a better (more objective) indicator since you either can lift something or you can't while size... well different mirrors, moods, cameras, lighting, might make you appear bigger/smaller so that's not really objective. How long does it take to regain whatever you have lost?

If it's fast then it's just water/glycogen imo... nothing to worry about.

If it's slow then you might be actually loosing muscle.

The rhabdo thing... is that with normal doses which don't cause any problems or is that people taking lots of drugs, becoming temporary psychotic and having to be restrained?
Second, yeah, that will cause some rhabdo... first... idk... any proposed mechanisms? Massive cortisol dump?

And well, steroids.... that will give you more muscle and since you've already been called a druggy.... (to the mods, if it's not obvious, I'm joking and not saying that the op should just go on steroids, that's not for me to suggest )

 

[crOOk]

plus, the amount of guys in any gym taking steroids, nobody is fit to calll anyone a druggy

Dude I was just messing around cause you were so observative and perhaps self conscious about your loss of muscle mass. I was actually saying that no one else will have noticed anything. I would still tend to say it's in your mind more than anything else because I know very well how your state of mind can influence how you evaluate visual and tactile input about your own body.

The rhabdo thing... is that with normal doses which don't cause any problems or is that people taking lots of drugs, becoming temporary psychotic and having to be restrained?
Second, yeah, that will cause some rhabdo... first... idk... any proposed mechanisms? Massive cortisol dump?

If you read carefully what i said in the first line, I am asking the same thing. There probably is neither data nor proposed mechanism, but it has to be said that recreational drug users tend to be on the skinny end, eventhough there are tons of other factors that accompany recreational drug use and would influence weight which aren't direct effects of the drugs. E.g. sleeping and eating patterns.

 

[black53]

Sorry if it's not clear in the previous post... wasn't asking you specifically but anyone who might know or have a guess

For the other part +1 one on sleeping/eating + opiates lower testosterone.

 

[crOOk]

Yeah I see, man, I did perceive it that way at first though as you can read from the first sentence in my last post.^^ However, I would be relatively curious what the mechanisms for ketamine causing rhabdomyolysis are and especially what the common ground with other drugs causing this condition are. It seems like pretty much every class of drugs has triggered it at some point, just like autoimmune responses can happen after pretty much any drug enters the bloodstream, eventhough some are particularly infamous for causing them.

There might be some information, but I really don't know jackshit about it and to be honest I'm not interested enough to browse through literature right now. :D

 

[black53]

No problem man. Maybe some one has at least some guesses? Sucks that a lot of the articles on pubmed are behind a paywall :/
Many also mention agitation, compression injury, .. so in those cases ketamine might not be the direct cause....

 

[crOOk]

I can give you the first one and the second one probably later today, university login isn't working which happens sometimes. Send me your email in a pm and I'll send you the first article.

 

[black53]

pm sent

 

[crOOk]

Sucks that a lot of the articles on pubmed are behind a paywall :/

Ok I sent you both articles. My university login still isn't working, but I've also got access via the German national license. Whichever country you are living in, it should offer a similar service, usually free of charge. Ask about it at your national library and they'll tell you how to register for it. I had to register for every single license they own (about 200, e.g. Wiley is 1, Thieme is another...) which was a bit tedious, but once you got your login you have access to a lot of stuff, eventhough a lot of new content is restricted.

 

[black53]

Thanks, I got everything

 

[crOOk]

Thanks, I got everything

If you manage to work through all that, you could let us know the essence of it. I'd imagine losing a lot of water and overheating might play a role, but it's nothing more than a wild guess.

 

[black53]

If/when... I will