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Ketamine and opiates?

B

Bitchniggaz

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Joined
Dec 21, 2015
Messages
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A friend of mine wants to try ket, but he has a fentanyl patch for some nerve damage from the doctor.

Is there a risc that the ketamine could trigger some kind of overdose scenario together with the fent patch?
 
That is why i asked, for the record he has had the fentanyl patch on for years now.
He gets it changed by a doctor when it starts to wear off.
He doesnt use it or other opiates for fun, its basicly to be able to handle his pain.

But is the risc because the ketamine could somehow potentiate the physical effects of the fentanyl or is it just unknown how the 2 drugs interact?
 
Ketamine is great alternative for the person who is hooked on opiates [prescribe pain pills, heroine, opium...etc].

They are very similar in effect/s.

Current studies that show Ketamine is helping depression [socially, mentally, physically, AND spiritually].




Seeing as Ketamine effects are very similar in nature to heroine's; Ketamine's presence brings an entheogenic, life changing effect that opiates DO NOT have. Such as Introspective awareness of Yourself and surroundings, feeling of connectedness to Yourself and the world around You, Meaningful spiritual experiences, Visionary / dream-like Hallucinations or Imagination...etc. etc. etc. These are all psychedelic and entheogenic [healing] characteristics and principles.

Ketamine's sought after non-psychedelic effects are very similar to any form of heroine or opium.
{Such as Euphoria, a pleasant body high, and pain relief...etc}

However, since Ketamine IS a psychedelic or "more entheogenic" substance, more than any form of opium or heroine...
It would make sense why ketamine is being looked into for depression; as a healing, sacramental, entheogenic psychoactive substance.
 
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Thanks man, I know its a dicey situation we have here.
My friend is a trip head who have used alot of psychs before in his past.
He is def not a stranger to psychedelics though.
He has done alot of them and some other dissios like dxm and n20 in the past.

Now he was a bit curious about ket, so i wanted to find out the risc of using it while being on his meds.
 
If he has zero or low tolerance to ket your could be very dangerous as soma has very well put.
Even with a tolerance it could be extremely dangerous at k-hole/anaesthetic dose.
If you must allow him to do make sure you are there and sober and keep his ket doses extremely low. Literally start with 10-20mg key bumps and add more as needed every 20 or so minutes. Do NOT let him, for eg, rail a 200mg line.
If injecting, start way way lower!
Ket ad opiates can be great at the right dose, I've mixed k with nearly all of them and been fine but never with Fent.
 
When I was using ketamine and mxe pretty regularly I was prescribed 90mgs of morphine + 40mgs of hydrocodone a day. I never really had much issues not to say it was safe. I'd usually try and lower my dosages of the pills if I was planning to take a big dose. I never did fentanyl so I can't really say he should. If he is going to do it he could try taking the patch off early and only do a very small dose of the ketamine and have someone with him when he does it. I did notice that 4-meo-pcp gave me noticeable respiratory depression to the point it scared me.
 
heatlessbbq said:
Ketamine is great alternative for the person who is hooked on opiates [prescribe pain pills, heroine, opium...etc].

They are very similar in effect/s.

Current studies that show Ketamine is helping depression [socially, mentally, physically, AND spiritually].




Seeing as Ketamine effects are very similar in nature to heroine's; Ketamine's presence brings an entheogenic, life changing effect that opiates DO NOT have. Such as Introspective awareness of Yourself and surroundings, feeling of connectedness to Yourself and the world around You, Meaningful spiritual experiences, Visionary / dream-like Hallucinations or Imagination...etc. etc. etc. These are all psychedelic and entheogenic [healing] characteristics and principles.

Ketamine's sought after non-psychedelic effects are very similar to any form of heroine or opium.
{Such as Euphoria, a pleasant body high, and pain relief...etc}

However, since Ketamine IS a psychedelic or "more entheogenic" substance, more than any form of opium or heroine...
It would make sense why ketamine is being looked into for depression; as a healing, sacramental, entheogenic psychoactive substance.
Click to expand...

Ketamine does not provide a pleasant body high at any dose, it cuts off the feeling from the whole body so the user can feel it less and less as the dose goes up, this can be pleasant or not and depends on the user, as opposed to the direct pleasure that the opiates will provide.
It is in fact not similar to opiates at all and to say so is a misrepresentation of its effects profile.
It does not have his main action at the opioid receptors, but at the NMDA receptors.
It is not a great alternative to opiates for anyone that would like to be able to get out of bed, walk and do anything without significant impairment to cognition and coordination, not to mention the half life is very short and continue redosing would be needed to achieve a stable serum concentration.
Chronic Ketamine use is also a direct cause of damage to kidney and urinary tract, and this will happen within months or a couple of years at best, and this alone makes it completely unsuitable for chronic pain management.
Also not sure about the studies about Ketamine and depression including spiritual research.
 
Phobos said:
Ketamine does not provide a pleasant body high at any dose, it cuts off the feeling from the whole body so the user can feel it less and less as the dose goes up, this can be pleasant or not and depends on the user, as opposed to the direct pleasure that the opiates will provide.
It is in fact not similar to opiates at all and to say so is a misrepresentation of its effects profile.
It does not have his main action at the opioid receptors, but at the NMDA receptors.
It is not a great alternative to opiates for anyone that would like to be able to get out of bed, walk and do anything without significant impairment to cognition and coordination, not to mention the half life is very short and continue redosing would be needed to achieve a stable serum concentration.
Chronic Ketamine use is also a direct cause of damage to kidney and urinary tract, and this will happen within months or a couple of years at best, and this alone makes it completely unsuitable for chronic pain management.
Also not sure about the studies about Ketamine and depression including spiritual research.
Click to expand...


I think its very individual.
Personally ive never gotten much out of opiates.
I dabled with them a bit when i had chronic back pain.
But never felt even close of the euphoria or pain relief that ketamine gave me.
Ive tried oxy, tramadol, codiene and even pure indian opium.
The only one that gave me a nice buzz was the tram and oxy.
But the soul sucking feeling i had the day after made me not want to touch them anymore.

But im def a psy head, so most non trippy drugs feels like a waste of time for me.
Never gotten why anyone would do benzos or straight stims either.
But i know we are all different so i dont judge people for having different taste in drugs.
 
Bitchniggaz said:
I think its very individual.
Personally ive never gotten much out of opiates.
I dabled with them a bit when i had chronic back pain.
But never felt even close of the euphoria or pain relief that ketamine gave me.
Ive tried oxy, tramadol, codiene and even pure indian opium.
The only one that gave me a nice buzz was the tram and oxy.
But the soul sucking feeling i had the day after made me not want to touch them anymore.

But im def a psy head, so most non trippy drugs feels like a waste of time for me.
Never gotten why anyone would do benzos or straight stims either.
But i know we are all different so i dont judge people for having different taste in drugs.
Click to expand...

We both agree that it is individual, but the points I brought up were meant to clarify the disinformation and dangerous advice from HeatlessBBQ's post and not as an answer to the OP.

If you are taking Fentanyl you might very cautiously try Ketamine, but only recreationally, it is unsuitable for chronic pain management.
 
I read an Article where they think/know Ketamine Effects the Opioid Receptors to some degree which POSSIBLY accounts for the anti-depression effects nobody rip my head off now please for posting this.
 
Echotango said:
I read an Article where they think/know Ketamine Effects the Opioid Receptors to some degree which POSSIBLY accounts for the anti-depression effects nobody rip my head off now please for posting this.
Click to expand...

We only give crap to heatlessbbq whenever he posts something, don't worry.

There are several types of opioid receptors, Ketamine binds to the MOR very weakly meaning at the dosages you get the full effects of Ketamine there is very little activity there.
It also acts as an antagonist at the opioid receptors, meaning it has the opposite effects of opiates and opioids, and it may reduce tolerance because of this.
Ketamine's effects on depression have been linked to this but there are different hypothesis as well.
 
Well I mean I thought I had to cite a Study from Online in Order to have irrefutable Evidence of my claims... from what I have been Private Messaged and told by a Moderator essentially. What about using it on Methadone Maintenance I got a lot of friends on Methadone and I don't want to offer one of them a line of Ketamine one Day and have to Call the Flippin Ambulance if you feel Me.
 
Methadone is a different beast, it has NMDA antagonist properties (main effect of ketamine) and IIRC affects serotonin levels as well.
Not sure if it is just dangerous and to avoid, but surely it would be advisable to start from very low dosages like 20mg lines.
 
Phobos said:
Also not sure about the studies about Ketamine and depression including spiritual research
Click to expand...


My ex partner who is straighty 180 doesn’t even touch a champagne has Ketamine infusions done in Florida every three months as they haven’t legalised them in Australia yet.

They treat allot of patients and are very successful, I have been put down for a trial in a few months.

So I can let you know ??
 
Nightrider19 said:
My ex partner who is straighty 180 doesn’t even touch a champagne has Ketamine infusions done in Florida every three months as they haven’t legalised them in Australia yet.

They treat allot of patients and are very successful, I have been put down for a trial in a few months.

So I can let you know ??
Click to expand...

So you have been put down, and then they will do a trial on you in a few months? :eek:

Jokes aside, spirituality is individual. If one has beliefs, it sounds very reasonable that they will come to his mind in one form or another while tripping.
I think that there are far too many stories around about making contact with this or that entity using this or that substance that most people are just conditioned into seeing that.
 
Phobos said:
Methadone is a different beast, it has NMDA antagonist properties (main effect of ketamine) and IIRC affects serotonin levels as well.
Not sure if it is just dangerous and to avoid, but surely it would be advisable to start from very low dosages like 20mg lines.
Click to expand...

Lol yeah of course for harm reduction sake a friend being on Methadone or not I would Weigh up 20MG since I Read my Cheap Scale can only weigh as low as 10MG accurately but any less than 20MG and I don't trust the accuracy of my Scale. I know about Methadones NMDAr Effects... but I thought it was a very mild NMDAr Strength so would it really make much of a difference when using Drugs like Nitrous Oxide and Ketamine which are both drugs I typically share with others.
 
Echotango said:
Well that is kind of a no brainer. I am on Benzos myself so are u telling Me there is a slight chance or a large chance of it causing "arrest respiration?
Click to expand...
I would say that depends on dose. If you are doing large doses of either one it would be a bigger risk; that’s not to say that low doses couldn’t cause an issue.

If it were me, I’d have a sitter who has naloxone on hand
 
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