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Dissociatives Ketamine and memory loss/long term neurological changes

Zephyn

Zephyn

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Oct 31, 2020
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Background: so, I've been using ketamine for a little over a decade, once or twice every 3-6 months, sometimes binges of 5g at the most IM.

This didn't happen to me in the past, and I havent had ketamine in like 3 months, but the past year or so, has been different. Before, I would typically khole and then would lay down, have a transcendent experience that I wouldnt exactly remember clearly, but would have some recollection of. I find, these days, I lose entire bouts of memory while using K, blackout style and have been getting up and walking around and injuring myself/the environment around me/knocking stuff over by accident while in the memory-Hole. I am then totally at a loss when told of what happens. The K still has its benefits and afterglow, but confused with this.. is it permatolerance/brain damage? Another thing to note is I can go 6 months with no ketamine and then use nitrous oxide to absolutely no effect. I mean literally I got a tank and each balloon wasn't more intense than a cigarette.

Could be from some permenant brain damage/change from experimental nootropics i used to take?


I also very well may be bipolar, though its uncertain at this point if its side effects from stimulant abuse in the past or a mood disorder.


The thing is K used to effect me normally, now I lose memory? And why can't I feel nitrous at all? Why do I feel unable to get out of bed and feed myself unless I've had ketamine in the past 3 weeks? I also didn't used to need it, perhaps I'm just in a rough patch of my life.

Has anyone else experienced this or am I the only one permenantly immune to nitrous.

Also of note, is K has almost entirely lost its psychedelic effects, and seems to work mainly as a anxiolytic/antidepressant these days. I wouldnt even mind, other than the fact that i bump into shit nowadays, and people usually get concerned for my safety (hitting my head, falling, etc) and have no recollection of it

Also I should add, im not exactly reagent testing, and i havent had any veterinary grade ketamine in a vial like I used to get in a couple years. However, I'm getting the same experience from different batches from different seemingly trustworthy sources. I saw in another thread that someone mentioned some 2fdck in reference to the domestic K scene these days? Surely it couldn't have infiltrated all sources? I will do another trial with a guarenteed and tested batch soon.

The thing with the nitrous makes me feel like it might be some neurological changes tbough.
 
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Four five or six times now, I've gotten up in what would be a hole dose, had no trip/cosmic realignment, walked around and bumped into tables or fallen and hit my head, or worse. And why the hell am I immune to nitrous?
 
I wouldn't worry about it z. I think pretty much all of the "It causes brain damage" is horseshit from anti-drugs DEA funded research. It's all injecting 500 times the human dose directly into a rats brain then saying "Dude, I can see brain damage". I bet if you released those rats into the wild they would behave just like any other rat.
 
Ismene2 said:
I wouldn't worry about it z. I think pretty much all of the "It causes brain damage" is horseshit from anti-drugs DEA funded research. It's all injecting 500 times the human dose directly into a rats brain then saying "Dude, I can see brain damage". I bet if you released those rats into the wild they would behave just like any other rat.
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Actually I've never heard anyone suggest it causes brain damage, except for me. I would think it was just permatolerance other than the immunity to nitrous. (And then again, wouldn't permatolerance be a sort of "brain damage"? Which I've seen a number of people report)

It could very easily be from my use of weird nootropic peptides designed by some guy on reddit and never even given to rats, or also from my stints on antipsychotic drugs, although none was super recent.
 
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Interesting. Id say any long term neulogical change could be construed as "damage", but only should when there are negative side effects to go along with it, then it would certainly be the case. Personally, I am not sure if the K has contributed to any of my suffering while not using it, or if I've had any cognitive side effects, perhaps a bit of memory loss of the past but that is likely more related to stimulant and mdma abuse for me. The memory loss for me only seems to come from 250mg+ doses, and only while under its effects. The antidepressant effect is pronounced, still now a few days later, although anxiety is just as bad if not worse. I love ketamine, and what it does for making me able to function, think clearly, and communicate more effectively.
 
Yeah, im not suggesting it is neurotoxic, but long term neurological changes that cause unpleasant side effects IMO is damage. Have seen nothing to suggest it is a neurotoxin or causes any sort of neuronal death
 
PYTH said:
Ah, I get what you're saying. Your problems sound pretty consistent with ketamine tolerance. I'd get more of the 'passing out' without the visual experience too.
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What about "passing out" and getting up and walking around and bumping into things and falling? Becoming tolerant to the anesthetic and sedative effects
 
To be frank what I used this day wasnt ketamine and I was unsure because it had been a few months. After getting it from a trusted vendor, it was obvious the trusted stuff was identical to the veterinary vials ive procured in the past. Ketamine might trigger mania/severe anxiety but it doesn't make you lose much memory.

From what I heard of my blackout, I was stumbling down the stairs, and laying on the ground looking like I was having a seizure during the "hole" of whatever this stuff was. All I recall was laying on the couch. But idk who knows. I know the only other 2 times I've thought i lost my memory on it was clean K, tho I felt like I had fluid memory of the whole experience. I also heard conflicting accounts of what happened during the time, that perhaps at least one of the times I *was* just laying around and not stumbling around making bird noises.

With real K, I *cannot hole*, no matter the dosage and best case scenario get really confused or clear headed which could lead to manic episode with mild? paranoia/fight or flight instinct.
 
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When I say gaslit, I mean people saying things then claiming they didn't say it (4 days later?), particularly a certain person. Even when others have heard what they said, just said i took it out of context. How unwilling they were to admit they said it even if I took it delusionally out of context, makes me sketched out as its pretty similar to some things that were said to me by some people that hurt me very badly
 
Overwhelming likelihood is that you are just experiencing changes in the effect profile of ketamine from overuse. Speculation about possible admixtures in ketamine are, in my opinion, not believable, there just isn't a substance which would mimic ketamine closely enough in effects while also producing increasingly strange and disconcerting effects that people always report when posting a thread like this. If there was - people would already be doing it, intentionally.

Changes in NMDA receptor profiles in the human brain appear to be very very persistent, as evidenced by the permatolerance to dissociatives that is often discussed by heavy dissociative users, even after long periods of abstinence.

Do your best to take a long, long break and try to engage in healthy activities as has been suggested to you, otherwise you will probably lose the good effects for ever, and obviously are putting yourself at significant risk every time you do dose. If you consider "long term neurological changes that cause unpleasant side effects" to be damage, then ketamine is indisputably damaging, because ketamine indisputably does cause these changes if used for long enough and in high enough doses.

The relevance and the reversibility of these changes can be debated endlessly and fairly pointlessly but you're not the first person to post this kind of thread asking about strange behaviour induced by ketamine and speculating about possible other causes for this strange behaviour than simply overuse of a powerful mind altering drug, so make of that what you will.
 
My bet is that you got a different compound than in earlier times, we have currently a load of different dissociatives going around of which some look and feel quite similar to K. I for example had some times blackout (which is nothing else than what K is used for in medicine! So as long as you don't hole daily it's not overly dangerous) while with other batches - all sold as deschloroketamine - no sedation at all. I wouldn't worry about drain bamage and even if, your brain has such amazing powers for healing itself. It's not like Nixon would like to see, that all drugs besides these that pharmaceutical non addictive shit fries your brain, rather like of the opposite, there's a limited amount of drugs which one should NOT do, like these para-chloro amphetamines which they use in aniumal trials to induce, forgot what, but they kill serotonergic neurons and with MPTP+ we have a similar compound for instant parkinson. But most drugs, hell even gasoline, isn't too toxic when exposition is limited. There's a vid on YouTube about a woman who claims to be addicted to huffing gasoline. Don't know how true that is but it wouldn't surprise me too much.

I've done probably around 100 drugs, some of them habitually and I'd say i'm same as before. I had attention deficit before using drugs and it's still here, but that's it. Only RELALY annoying thing is a condition called REM Sleep Movement Disorder which basically means my body isn't fully immobilized during dream phases (ever watched a cat or dog having nightmares?) and sometimes I speak or shout during dreams. BUT THAT CONDITION WAS CAUSED BY APPROVED PHARM DRUGS, at least to 95%.
 
Balance with supplements, brain needs anti-oxidation, B12, NAC, resveratrol, magnesium, green thee, herbs, name it. Memory will be aided that way. Dig into it.

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