Bupe Just started suboxone

[cowgirl0510]

This is my third day on 16mg of subs a day coming off a fent habit. I can’t sleep at night and I have zero energy. Like I mean can’t even get up hardly bc I’m so shaky and weak.
Blood pressure is sky high and my heart races non stop. Doc gave trazadone for sleep but it didn’t work same with anxiety meds felt nothing.

many advice? Does it get better? I really want to stay clean

 

[DKs]

I'm, to be honest, not surprised your trazadone doesn't work. You will most likely not get any proper anti-anxiety medication either if your doc knows about your habit. The only thing I can think of is switching to methadone as you'll probably not get anything else.
I personally dislike buprenorphine extremely because it lacks all damping and depressing opioid-like effects. Methadone is a very sedating opioid and might, especially at the beginning of your substitution therapy, help you to sleep.

EDIT:
another idea might be do increase your dose as you probably need more than 16 mg, but buprenorphine is a very activating and rather stimulating opioid. Even if you're WD was fully surpressed, you might still not sleep well due to the buprenorphine itself.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Taper your dose down over a few days.

People don't realize that buprenorphine is actually very potent. It's actually just as potent, if not more so than fentanyl. But it is only a partial agonist, meaning it will not cause the same level of sedation or "high" as a full agonist. It is active in the microgram range.

You made need the 16mg for a week or so, because you will have all those extra receptors that sprouted from using fentanyl that need to be filled & die off.

It does get better, but with buprenorphine, it takes ALOT of patience. Once your tolerance to the fent drops more and more, the more "effect" you will start to get from your buprenorphine.

Methadone is also a great option but only for those who don't mind being tied to a clinic daily (depending on where you live).

Bupe is very limited, but it can help if you give it enough time. I have seen people with no tolerance, puking & nodding from a mere .5mg of bupe before.
Plus the higher the bupe dose, the more antagonist-like (like naltrexone) it feels, where as the lower doses feel closer to a full agonist (depending on tolerance).


I wouldn't use bupe for very long though if you're looking to stay clean. Bupe & methadone are great tools but IMO, long term use of them is more for people who don't mind being dependent/addicted to an opioid, because you're still essentially an opioid addict when taking bupe & methadone, the only difference is that now you can do it legally and the drugs are much longer acting and less recreational. They can be helpful for short term tapers, but they're reserved as "maintenance" drugs for a reason. I chose maintenance because I was fully aware after being an addict for so long that the reason I was addicted to opiates was because they were giving me a positive benefit over my mental health issues & the benefit far out weighed the risks for me since I'm a pretty responsible person these days. If opiates are making your life worse for you (and I imagine so, with something like fent) and you're ready to be clean, I'd recommend being very careful with the tools known as buprenorphine and methadone because you are still gonna have to withdrawal from them. So a rapid taper is your best bet.

Good luck OP!

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

This is my third day on 16mg of subs a day coming off a fent habit. I can’t sleep at night and I have zero energy. Like I mean can’t even get up hardly bc I’m so shaky and weak.
Blood pressure is sky high and my heart races non stop. Doc gave trazadone for sleep but it didn’t work same with anxiety meds felt nothing.

many advice? Does it get better? I really want to stay clean

Trazadone is commonly medicated but I can't stand that medication. It made me drowsy in a confused and disoriented way like a benzo hangover but much worse. Anyway back to the topic.

Yes it absolutely gets better. Fent is incredibly powerful in its own right. Even heroin sometimes can not match pure fent alone in how dependent the brain becomes attached to the drug for mood stability. Basically, fent withdrawal even with medication will have some powerful depression. The next few days can be very rough.. but of course the body adjusts quickly in time to subs. Mainly because it needs something for the endorphin balance within it. It will become attached to the suboxone pretty soon and stop lashing out at your body and mind. That was not very scientific but I think there's some truth to that.

It's very typical of heroin/stronger opiate users to experience sickness when switching over to suboxone. A lot more than people think, I'd believe. So maybe 2-3 days gauge how you feel? Suboxone does not beat getting high. Everyone will most likely miss that part, but it does reduce cravings immensely and at least you can keep your mental health in tact. I don't know if getting high on opiates constantly can allow that.

No matter what happens please do not smoke fent/whatever route you used to use on the suboxone. We can't tell how your tolerance could handle that. It's pretty common for people to do that--and one or two mistakes could be whatever if you don't push it.. but if you find yourself using daily again I would just not try to cheat the doctor and tell the truth.

If you really want to get clean I think as long as people keep trying they seem to make it out eventually. Unfortunately not everyone makes it through the potential relapses. Even if temporary, the time I spent without one of my favorite feelings was genuinely really memorable and meaningful. I wish I could say that about the best time periods of being on high dose oxy and such, but I don't remember much. Could be because the brain doesn't process information as accurately when someone is in the best mood, or its just how opiates are. Either way I've heard that from most people actually. They had the greatest times on opiates but they never remember most of it as if they were sober. 5 years from now you might wish you remembered much more of your past.

 

[3headedgoat13]

So I’ve been there... more than a couple times. And I’m here to say that if your fent habit was immaculate, buprenorphine for the most part won’t rid you of your withdrawals completely. In that period of my life I had a horrible habit & couldn’t find anything so I would shoot my subs( I know stupid..) and it didn’t matter if I was loading 1 strip or 3(an “extra gooey” ;we named it..) it didn’t touch the withdrawal for the most part. Some people don’t realize that the RCs like acetylfentanyl an 4-ANPP etc. also have a very strong dominance over the MU receptors that the sub just isn’t enough & it sucks cause the switching back and forth thing with dope & subs made it so I was never sick (please don’t do what I did with the switching shit) Its not the same anymore. I’ll never forget feeling that feeling of hopelessness when I was WD from fent and subs weren’t helping. Best of luck!

 

[Bracy]

I found that not taking it all at once help. I have the sublingual. Currently on 8mg a day. Take throughout the day vs all at once. At first I experienced them same side effects. It does get better hang in there. At night I find tapping on my chest to the rhythm I want my heart to go helps. For panic and anxiety count numbers out of order. Your brain hard time doing both. Good luck on your journey

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

So I’ve been there... more than a couple times. And I’m here to say that if your fent habit was immaculate, buprenorphine for the most part won’t rid you of your withdrawals completely. In that period of my life I had a horrible habit & couldn’t find anything so I would shoot my subs( I know stupid..) and it didn’t matter if I was loading 1 strip or 3(an “extra gooey” ;we named it..) it didn’t touch the withdrawal for the most part. Some people don’t realize that the RCs like acetylfentanyl an 4-ANPP etc. also have a very strong dominance over the MU receptors that the sub just isn’t enough & it sucks cause the switching back and forth thing with dope & subs made it so I was never sick (please don’t do what I did with the switching shit) Its not the same anymore. I’ll never forget feeling that feeling of hopelessness when I was WD from fent and subs weren’t helping. Best of luck!

Definitely this ^^^^^^
Subs won't really touch fent withdrawals. At least not at first. If you wait long enough they can maybe help though.

I wonder if the Bernese method could be done with fentanyl. Mix microdoses of bupe while lowering your dose of fent. Although both Fent & Bupe are potent at the mu-receptor, so I'm not sure how to go about it.

I use to be able to use this method for heroin withdrawals & it worked pretty good, but fent might be a different story.

 

[DKs]

I don't want to come across as heartless. I'm just rather pragmatic and I've been through a lot myself, too.

I was assuming this was about maintenance. My apologies if this isn't the case. Of course it's better to take lower doses, but the important thing for you is to somehow get along with your medication. Also your dose needs to be high enough to sufficiently suppress cravings

People don't realize that buprenorphine is actually very potent. It's actually just as potent, if not more so than fentanyl. But it is only a partial agonist, meaning it will not cause the same level of sedation or "high" as a full agonist. It is active in the microgram range.

There are other things that play a role here, too, but if you don't have any cravings you might just have to wait.
I did never like buprenorphine due to its activating properties and the total lack of "damping effects", but I've heard a lot positive things about buprenorphine from other people who couldn't handle the sedating and damping effects of methadone.

 

[Juniper Bruhmomentius]

Dont take 16mg. 1-2mg at most, they hold 90+% of the potency and effects.

Good luck nevertheless. Bupre is a decision and rather good one too.

 

[Absoluteolive]

Definitely this ^^^^^^
Subs won't really touch fent withdrawals. At least not at first. If you wait long enough they can maybe help though.

I wonder if the Bernese method could be done with fentanyl. Mix microdoses of bupe while lowering your dose of fent. Although both Fent & Bupe are potent at the mu-receptor, so I'm not sure how to go about it.

I use to be able to use this method for heroin withdrawals & it worked pretty good, but fent might be a different story.

Wouldn’t mixing both in the beginning just give one precipitated withdrawals? I remember switching suboxone and norco/ opana back when I first tried quitting opiates no problem. This time quitting IV heroin I waited about 16 hours before taking my first suboxone and I hot precipitated withdrawals for about 4 days. It was worse that just going cold turkey. I swear I git PTSD from my last attempt at quitting. My cravings are back and reading this is causing me to rethink my using again.

 

[3headedgoat13]

I honestly used to wait till I was feel just a bit I’ll and bang a 1/16th of a sub and it would put me in a little precipitated withdrawal for about 20-30 min in which I would sit in a nice hot shower, but the time I got out the bupe took over the receptor and I was good lol... the good old days

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

I'd infinitely rather be sick on suboxone to deal with my fent withdrawal than to do it without suboxone.

Fent withdrawal makes me want to just die Besides stay stationary in place hating every second, I find myself unable to do anything else besides bask in misery. I couldn't even fake being normal its unlivable. Lasts about a solid two weeks before I find I can walk around again and be happy like a normal person but still felt horribly crappy. The time I did it without subs I literally shut my phone off and just stayed bed-ridden for that long. Unlike traditional oxy withdrawal kratom was useless and did not put a dent in the sickness. It sucks that fent has such a terrible withdrawal because ironically its safer than heroin these days since it can be accurately measured out. Cold turkey fent withdrawal is not like the normal oxy withdrawal. You just want to stop living lolll that's the only way I can describe how it feels. Anyway, how do you feel now OP? You should feel "normal" at least closer to it!

You're doing the right thing in my opinion OP. Fent locks users in place.. it's not a substance one can necessarily taper back on because the withdrawal will still be devastating. There's no place to go... while I find fent to be quite euphoric and reliable, the withdrawal is just too bad for regular use in my opinion. You can't withdraw at the wrong time and place because you'll be so depressed that even if you can move around there's nothing you have the will-power to do. At least now you'll be able to gauge what life is like off it and see what decisions you'd like to make next.

I recommend suboxone for anyone who is about to withdraw from fent. That kind of withdrawal isn't a game and oxy is child's play compared to the sickness that comes with regular fent use. On top of fent withdrawal kicking in so remarkably quickly. The body adjusts to fent insanely fast so withdrawal is inevitable imo. On a positive note--I enjoyed my time on fent when I wasn't withdrawing. The come down? Kind of ghastly but yolo.

 

[cowgirl0510]

I'd infinitely rather be sick on suboxone to deal with my fent withdrawal than to do it without suboxone.

Fent withdrawal makes me want to just die Besides stay stationary in place hating every second, I find myself unable to do anything else besides bask in misery. I couldn't even fake being normal its unlivable. Lasts about a solid two weeks before I find I can walk around again and be happy like a normal person but still felt horribly crappy. The time I did it without subs I literally shut my phone off and just stayed bed-ridden for that long. Unlike traditional oxy withdrawal kratom was useless and did not put a dent in the sickness. It sucks that fent has such a terrible withdrawal because ironically its safer than heroin these days since it can be accurately measured out. Cold turkey fent withdrawal is not like the normal oxy withdrawal. You just want to stop living lolll that's the only way I can describe how it feels. Anyway, how do you feel now OP? You should feel "normal" at least closer to it!

You're doing the right thing in my opinion OP. Fent locks users in place.. it's not a substance one can necessarily taper back on because the withdrawal will still be devastating. There's no place to go... while I find fent to be quite euphoric and reliable, the withdrawal is just too bad for regular use in my opinion. You can't withdraw at the wrong time and place because you'll be so depressed that even if you can move around there's nothing you have the will-power to do. At least now you'll be able to gauge what life is like off it and see what decisions you'd like to make next.

I recommend suboxone for anyone who is about to withdraw from fent. That kind of withdrawal isn't a game and oxy is child's play compared to the sickness that comes with regular fent use. On top of fent withdrawal kicking in so remarkably quickly. The body adjusts to fent insanely fast so withdrawal is inevitable imo. On a positive note--I enjoyed my time on fent when I wasn't withdrawing. The come down? Kind of ghastly but yolo.

Yea that’s pretty much how I felt. Even on subs couldn’t hardly get out of bed all weak. When I did I was just so weak and shaky.
I tapered down the subs really quick to where I don’t plan on taking any today and trying kratom instead.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

Yea that’s pretty much how I felt. Even on subs couldn’t hardly get out of bed all weak. When I did I was just so weak and shaky.
I tapered down the subs really quick to where I don’t plan on taking any today and trying kratom instead.

You could try. The problem with subs lies in the fact that it may take a day or two (if not more) to feel other opiate related items. The kratom might... be unfeelable. Although for some reason I can take both suboxone and kratom at the same time and never experience PWD. I can still feel kratom on suboxone but my brain might be weird.

See how it goes I guess, lol.

 

[deficiT]

Give it time, you will feel better.

 

[Nics91]

I been on subs for years now but I’ve bounced between using heroin and fent for a time then going back to subs and I’ve never experienced the precipitated WD thing but that’s besides the point. Back to your question it does get better but it takes time. I remember just a month ago I had been banging fent for a while and I decided to leave the area and get back on my subs bc I was in a really bad way and it really surprised me how much WD I experienced even after taking 16mg of bup but for me it only lasted for a few days and it was infinitely better than doing it without bup. That being said everyone is different and I’d say if you’re several days in up to a week I’d definitely tell the doc and maybe he could up your does. If not then yea I’d probably try methadone if that’s possible for you. How long have you been on bup and off fent?

 

[cowgirl0510]

I been on subs for years now but I’ve bounced between using heroin and fent for a time then going back to subs and I’ve never experienced the precipitated WD thing but that’s besides the point. Back to your question it does get better but it takes time. I remember just a month ago I had been banging fent for a while and I decided to leave the area and get back on my subs bc I was in a really bad way and it really surprised me how much WD I experienced even after taking 16mg of bup but for me it only lasted for a few days and it was infinitely better than doing it without bup. That being said everyone is different and I’d say if you’re several days in up to a week I’d definitely tell the doc and maybe he could up your does. If not then yea I’d probably try methadone if that’s possible for you. How long have you been on bup and off fent?

It’ll be a week tomorrow. The kratom didn’t do anything for my today so I took a lil more suboxone.. about 2mg. I still feel about the same as I did going into it as far as dead tired but can’t sleep. Awful headaches and getting chills and the sweats bad. I’m so ready to just feel better but I want to stay away from the illegal drugs. It’s really hard knowing some fent or oxy would have me feeling normal easy as can be but I’m come this far and trying not to turn back. I filed for divorce involving custody of my baby so the courts will be up my ass and I can’t take risks of going back to self medicating with illegal stuff like I was before

 

[cowgirl0510]

You could try. The problem with subs lies in the fact that it may take a day or two (if not more) to feel other opiate related items. The kratom might... be unfeelable. Although for some reason I can take both suboxone and kratom at the same time and never experience PWD. I can still feel kratom on suboxone but my brain might be weird.

See how it goes I guess, lol.

How much kratom do you take? I tried two teaspoons.

 

[Nics91]

It’ll be a week tomorrow. The kratom didn’t do anything for my today so I took a lil more suboxone.. about 2mg. I still feel about the same as I did going into it as far as dead tired but can’t sleep. Awful headaches and getting chills and the sweats bad. I’m so ready to just feel better but I want to stay away from the illegal drugs. It’s really hard knowing some fent or oxy would have me feeling normal easy as can be but I’m come this far and trying not to turn back. I filed for divorce involving custody of my baby so the courts will be up my ass and I can’t take risks of going back to self medicating with illegal stuff like I was before

Keep at it! You’ve got this. Idk why after a week you haven’t leveled out but it’s coming just keep that in mind. Before too long you will be leveled out but keep this in mind. I can only speak for myself but getting clean hasn’t ever been nearly as hard as staying clean but it sounds like you’ve got a good head on your shoulders just stay at it. And I’m wishing you the best.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Wouldn’t mixing both in the beginning just give one precipitated withdrawals? I remember switching suboxone and norco/ opana back when I first tried quitting opiates no problem. This time quitting IV heroin I waited about 16 hours before taking my first suboxone and I hot precipitated withdrawals for about 4 days. It was worse that just going cold turkey. I swear I git PTSD from my last attempt at quitting. My cravings are back and reading this is causing me to rethink my using again.

I don't think so. The idea with the Bernese method is to take MICRO doses of Suboxone while still using. The idea is that taking a micro dose, it will attach to a few receptors but not all of your receptors. When you take a bigger dose, like 12-16mg, it's going to rip off all of your DOC (heroin, fent, etc..) and replace it on like 80% of your receptors. This is what causes such agonizing withdrawal.

With the micro dose method, you can keep using your DOC, while reducing your usage slowly and introducing the micro doses. The idea is that eventually you'll have enough of your receptors covered that you'll be able to take more and more suboxone without the fear of a nasty precipitated withdrawal. It also makes the transition a lot smoother.

I've had success with this using heroin & subs but never fent & subs, so I'm not sure how well it would work with fent.