Opioids Just discovered something...

[Prettyboy12]

So my friend showed me today how to IM my 8mg Hydromorphone pills! Definitely like this much better than banging H. Has anyone else done this with there pills?
Any dos and don'ts I should know?

 

[somnilicious]

Yeah... Don't IM pills

 

[SteeleyJ]

Yeah if you must inject them than you should IV them. IM pills opens you up to the possibility of access. Also IV has a good rush behind it.
Hydromorphone has a strong rush but absolutely no legs behind it whereas good heroin has a long lasting heavy buzz. When I was doing alot of heavy opioids hydromorphone would tease me and leave me sick 3 or 4 hours later.

 

[MsDiz]

Pills should never be taken via IV or IM. In simple terms there are so many fillers that it can cause capillaries and even veins becoming blocked which can cause tissue loss and even amputation.

Here’s the Harm reduction bit, if you are going to inject pills then you need to use a wheel filter to get as much of those small particle fillers out of the solution. The 0.2 pore wheel filter is the one that is recommended if you are shooting pills. I’m going to add an info graphic of how to use a wheel filter.

In general a wheel filter should always be used when shooting anything but I realise they can be expensive.

 

[dalpat077]

Pills should never be taken via IV or IM. In simple terms there are so many fillers that it can cause capillaries and even veins becoming blocked which can cause tissue loss and even amputation.

Here’s the Harm reduction bit, if you are going to inject pills then you need to use a wheel filter to get as much of those small particle fillers out of the solution. The 0.2 pore wheel filter is the one that is recommended if you are shooting pills. I’m going to add an info graphic of how to use a wheel filter.

In general a wheel filter should always be used when shooting anything but I realise they can be expensive.

Absolutely fuck all to do with me. But just an observation.

You need to click on the info graphic to see the entire process.

It may not be that obvious to some (in spite of the page "1 / 2" indicator that's pretty easy to overlook) (and I know as a rule I never click on a graphic that appears in a post) (wonder what I've missed over the past year).

At first glance and without doing the above: it'd be very easy for a novice to take a look at the graphic as presented in the post, assume that you're using the wheel filter to filter the water, then using cotton or a cigarette filter as a filter to draw up the drug, and then slamming straight from there.

 

[sekio]

If these are formulated the same as real Purdue Dilaudid, then the only filler is lactose. There are no harmful binders in those pills, they should dissolve entirely to a clear solution in water.

Still a micron filter doesn't hurt.

 

[MsDiz]

If these are formulated the same as real Purdue Dilaudid, then the only filler is lactose. There are no harmful binders in those pills, they should dissolve entirely to a clear solution in water.

Still a micron filter doesn't hurt.

I think a good rule of thumb is not to shoot any pills. It’s easy for us to determine the safety in regards to fillers but the layman just won’t be able to make that distinction.

Pill manufacturer’s are adding more fillers now to prevent users shooting their pills.

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

Micron filters micron filters micron filterz

 

[4meSM]

Some hydromorphone pills contain microcrystalline cellulose which is not safe to IV.
Extended release formulations usually contain other harmful fillers as well.
I'd say micron filters are truly necessary for most pills.

 

[Prettyboy12]

If these are formulated the same as real Purdue Dilaudid, then the only filler is lactose. There are no harmful binders in those pills, they should dissolve entirely to a clear solution in water.

Still a micron filter doesn't hurt.

They dissolve really easy. The manufacturer says MALLI on the bottle. I just use a piece of cotton from a quetip and not had any problems so far.

 

[MsDiz]

They dissolve really easy. The manufacturer says MALLI on the bottle. I just use a piece of cotton from a quetip and not had any problems so far.

It’s not enough, please get wheel filters if you intend to shoot pills.

It might look like it’s dissolved but there are particles you won’t see easily.

 

[MsDiz]

They dissolve really easy. The manufacturer says MALLI on the bottle. I just use a piece of cotton from a quetip and not had any problems so far.

I’ve checked, the only manufacturer I can find with “malli” is mallinckrodt and they contain acetaminophen and other fillers. They are not suitable to inject anywhere. Please don’t.

 

[Prettyboy12]

I’ve checked, the only manufacturer I can find with “malli” is mallinckrodt and they contain acetaminophen and other fillers. They are not suitable to inject anywhere. Please don’t.

I have not seen any Hydromorphone that has APAP in them.

 

[sekio]

Those pills with APAP you linked are hydrocodone, not hydromorphone. (You wouldn't need to inject hydrocodone, it has good oral BA)
Mallinckrodt does make generic hydromorphone tablets according to USP specification. Some manufacturers do list microcrystalline cellulose as an ingredient, but as cellulose is insoluble in water, a tablet that dissolves completely will not have much to worry about.

Yes, the rule of thumb is not to inject pills (they're not made to do that), but the combination of hydromorphone's rather low oral BA and the pills being primarily made of lactose and not insoluble fillers (evidenced by their complete dissolution to a clear liquid). If you are going to inject any pills, these are a good choice.

That said, cotton balls are poor filters in general. I once read that the original use of a cotton ball was not intended as a filter but rather was a cushion to avoid blunting the needle.

There is a document produced by the folks at the safe injection site in my city called Insite... the document is called the Insite Cookbook that has guides to (as safely as possible) prepare Dilaudid and other pills for injection. (They know IVing pills is inherently risky, but they also know that some people are hellbent on IVing pills, so they prepared directions to do so safely.) Google it as I can't seem to put a link here.

 

[MsDiz]

Those pills with APAP you linked are hydrocodone, not hydromorphone. (You wouldn't need to inject hydrocodone, it has good oral BA)
Mallinckrodt does make generic hydromorphone tablets according to USP specification. Some manufacturers do list microcrystalline cellulose as an ingredient, but as cellulose is insoluble in water, a tablet that dissolves completely will not have much to worry about.

Yes, the rule of thumb is not to inject pills (they're not made to do that), but the combination of hydromorphone's rather low oral BA and the pills being primarily made of lactose and not insoluble fillers (evidenced by their complete dissolution to a clear liquid). If you are going to inject any pills, these are a good choice.

That said, cotton balls are poor filters in general. I once read that the original use of a cotton ball was not intended as a filter but rather was a cushion to avoid blunting the needle.

There is a document produced by the folks at the safe injection site in my city called Insite... the document is called the Insite Cookbook that has guides to (as safely as possible) prepare Dilaudid and other pills for injection. (They know IVing pills is inherently risky, but they also know that some people are hellbent on IVing pills, so they prepared directions to do so safely.) Google it as I can't seem to put a link here.

Just to say he’s IMing them.

 

[drewbocop]

As everyone else has said, you're asking for trouble man. Big trouble. You might get away with it for a while but it's a terrible idea even with proper filtration though hydromorphone is one of the easiest to do it with. I won't say I haven't done it, I have. But I've done a lot of stupid things.

 

[dalpat077]

There is a document produced by the folks at the safe injection site in my city called Insite... the document is called the Insite Cookbook that has guides to (as safely as possible) prepare Dilaudid and other pills for injection. (They know IVing pills is inherently risky, but they also know that some people are hellbent on IVing pills, so they prepared directions to do so safely.) Google it as I can't seem to put a link here.

Allow me.

Insite 2010 - 2018 Cookbook

It's a .PDF file so it'll either prompt you to download or open automatically if you have the required app. And I had to shorten the URL using TinyURL (so don't panic i.e. it's not a link to some obscure website I assure you).

Oddly enough: downloaded this same thing over a year ago now (but for different reasons).

No offense but it's not the best document I've seen. If for no other reason than that there's no emphasis put on the use of wheel filters save for the recommendation below each procedure and which refers to Sterifilt® products registered to a French harm reduction outfit called Apothicom (but with worldwide distribution). Maybe it's just me and the way I read things i.e. if you're an IV user then you probably know all of this shit.

Interesting to note that the Sterifilt® filters are NOT antibacterial. They have other wheel filters available that ARE antibacterial. Anyway. Their website is worth the effort to take a read through (they supply all manner of other harm reduction related materials and items including acids, special foil, the list is substantial under the tab "Our tools"). It's also worth downloading the data sheets when provided.

About Apothicom

Apothicom conducts research programmes in public health and develops tools of prevention, training and information in the field of harm reduction linked to the use of drugs.

www.apothicom.org

Providing this as a separate link from their main Sterifilt® product page i.e. interesting info.:

Sterifilt literature review

SteriFilt, literature review

www.apothicom.org

Here's another possibly useful link (which ironically has the same Insite Cookbook embedded on the page):

Support

To advocate for a safe supply of drugs, and an end to the war on drug users

www.safesupply.ca

Here's an interesting study from 2011 containing much detail on filters and IV drugs and methods and potential issues. While it may be dated to an extent: I would imagine that the only invalid data are the statistics (and sorry: again had to shorten this link due to the now infamous "Oops" error when posting certain links) (this to the NCBI website):

The filter of choice: filtration method preference among injecting drug users

Injection drug use syringe filters (IDUSF) are designed to prevent several complications related to the injection of drugs. Due to their small pore size, their use can reduce the solution's insoluble particle content and thus diminish the prevalence of ...

tinyurl.com

 

[MsDiz]

Allow me.

Insite 2010 - 2018 Cookbook

It's a .PDF file so it'll either prompt you to download or open automatically if you have the required app. And I had to shorten the URL using TinyURL (so don't panic i.e. it's not a link to some obscure website I assure you).

Oddly enough: downloaded this same thing over a year ago now (but for different reasons).

No offense but it's not the best document I've seen. If for no other reason than that there's no emphasis put on the use of wheel filters save for the recommendation below each procedure and which refers to Sterifilt® products registered to a French harm reduction outfit called Apothicom (but with worldwide distribution). Maybe it's just me and the way I read things i.e. if you're an IV user then you probably know all of this shit.

Interesting to note that the Sterifilt® filters are NOT antibacterial. They have other wheel filters available that ARE antibacterial. Anyway. Their website is worth the effort to take a read through (they supply all manner of other harm reduction related materials and items including acids, special foil, the list is substantial under the tab "Our tools"). It's also worth downloading the data sheets when provided.

About Apothicom

Apothicom conducts research programmes in public health and develops tools of prevention, training and information in the field of harm reduction linked to the use of drugs.

www.apothicom.org

Providing this as a separate link from their main Sterifilt® product page i.e. interesting info.:

Sterifilt literature review

SteriFilt, literature review

www.apothicom.org

Here's another possibly useful link (which ironically has the same Insite Cookbook embedded on the page):

Support

To advocate for a safe supply of drugs, and an end to the war on drug users

www.safesupply.ca

Here's an interesting study from 2011 containing much detail on filters and IV drugs and methods and potential issues. While it may be dated to an extent: I would imagine that the only invalid data are the statistics (and sorry: again had to shorten this link due to the now infamous "Oops" error when posting certain links) (this to the NCBI website):

The filter of choice: filtration method preference among injecting drug users

Injection drug use syringe filters (IDUSF) are designed to prevent several complications related to the injection of drugs. Due to their small pore size, their use can reduce the solution's insoluble particle content and thus diminish the prevalence of ...

tinyurl.com

This is a lot of great info @dalpat077 i really do be impressed by your thirst for knowledge and subsequent sharing of that knowledge.

 

[dalpat077]

This is a lot of great info @dalpat077 i really do be impressed by your thirst for knowledge and subsequent sharing of that knowledge.

Oh my. You didn't have to be so nice! People will start talking! But thanks! What can I say. I'm a dichotomy. An enigma. Saving people on one thread and killing them on another!

Must admit I was surprised at the info. though. Somebody like me would have just assumed that these fancy wheel filters filtered all. Had no idea that none of them are able to filter our viruses (and that was also noted yesterday by @4meSM on the questionable thread). Also had no idea that there are antibacterial filters i.e. just assumed that any wheel filter would take care of all. Misguided to say the least. Only reason they are helpful when it comes to viruses is because they're supposed to be used only once, therefore not shared, and then tossed (and specifically designed so that they don't retain enough of the drug, once used, in order for somebody to hold onto them in order to get another hit or in case of withdrawal).

 

[MsDiz]

Oh my. You didn't have to be so nice! People will start talking! But thanks! What can I say. I'm a dichotomy. An enigma. Saving people on one thread and killing them on another!

Must admit I was surprised at the info. though. Somebody like me would have just assumed that these fancy wheel filters filtered all. Had no idea that none of them are able to filter our viruses (and that was also noted yesterday by @4meSM on the questionable thread). Also had no idea that there are antibacterial filters i.e. just assumed that any wheel filter would take care of all. Misguided to say the least. Only reason they are helpful when it comes to viruses is because they're supposed to be used only once, therefore not shared, and then tossed (and specifically designed so that they don't retain enough of the drug, once used, in order for somebody to hold onto them in order to get another hit or in case of withdrawal).

Yeah they definitely don’t filter viruses.

They do come in different sizes, I think it’s great the small 0.22 pore one does filter a high percentage of bacteria and to me it’s more of a concern for a user these days. In the lab we would use a 0.2/0.22 μm for sterilising solutions at times.

I would hope that the free access to needles at exchanges would reduce the need to share and therefore greatly reduce the risk of viruses like hepatitis or HIV.