Junkie who doesn't want to get smol

[Dandreas345]

I spent some time thinking about whether or not I should really even make this thread. I know a lot of the response is going to be folks trying to convince me I should do what I of course already know very well. So let just start this off by saying I know my cycle of addiction and I know what it takes for me to stop and it's in the works, unfortunately there is a wait. I do not want to lose every bit of a physique I have worked for -- some of which I already have -- during said wait.

I know how much harder it is to dig yourself out of this particular hole having been here many times before. When you look in the mirror you not only see someone you loathe for their behavior and mistakes, but nothing is there physically to like about them either. I refuse to get down there again, because I almost didn't make it the last time I did, and unfortunately, I am in the hole. For better or worse mafucka's is in holes now. So I'm trying to damage control. ANYWAYS...

Those of you that have hung in there so far, thank you for reading to this point.

Basically, the information I am trying to glean is regarding using exogenous hormones when an individual is using alcohol and narcotics on a daily to five day a week basis. In this instance and from this point forward, "alcohol" refers to 12 ounces of liquor spread throughout the day, "narcotics" refers to very minimal Methamphetamine use, we're talking less than or just at 0.25 a day. Been at it this go around 3 weeks, have about 10 weeks to go before ability to get in somewhere presents itself. Some context to my decision to go this route, along with the explanation I gave above is that I've essentially been wasting away. Lost a bunch of fat, so in a great range to do a cycle currently at 13%, but the muscle is going in earnest now.

In my case looking at a initial test 250 mg p/w 8 week cycle, with a cruise until I can get to a place for treatment, AI on hand in case needed. Open to suggestion, of course. But that was my initial thought. I obviously haven't done a lab draw for bloods in about three weeks since the beginning of this ordeal, but will likely go ahead and do that in the event I go ahead, after getting some information here alongside the research I've done on my own. I've got the extra money and definite motivation.

I have heard this done before. I've seen other addicts do it when in active addiction. Hope-to-die dope fiend IV users who had no business being gigantic but, none the less were due to these enhancements. I'm not sure what the long term, or down the road cause and effects it had upon them as the drug scene is very transient and just never stayed in touch.

Feasibility? Is it there? I'm looking for honest opinions, ideally from men and women more knowledgeable than myself on the world of AAS, hormonal output and physiology, but I appreciate any and all input. I can't promise it will change my mind, but I value it none the less. I feel very grateful we live in a day and age that with a dilemma and shitty circumstance we can go to a online site such as this one and bring the issue to strangers under anonymity. Thanks in advance for any input.

TL;DR -- Scumbag drug addict wants to stay big and stronk on a bender with AAS assistance until can unfuck himself. Any input on this plan or opinion appreciated.

 

[Phobos]

Welcome to Bluelight.
The dosage you plan to use seems excessive, especially since you are still drinking alcohol, which increases aromatisation of Test into Estradiol.
Taking an AI might counter that but overdoing it will mess up your lipids and may facilitate brain damage from Meth as Estradiol is neuroprotective.
If you decide use Test I recommend you drop alcohol entirely and use a more conservative 120 to 170mg per week.
Also, 250mg of Meth per day is by no means a small amount, which would be 20mg or less per day taken by mouth.
Are you snorting, smoking, IVing?

 

[Dandreas345]

Welcome to Bluelight.
The dosage you plan to use seems excessive, especially since you are still drinking alcohol, which increases aromatisation of Test into Estradiol.
Taking an AI might counter that but overdoing it will mess up your lipids and may facilitate brain damage from Meth as Estradiol is neuroprotective.
If you decide use Test I recommend you drop alcohol entirely and use a more conservative 120 to 170mg per week.
Also, 250mg of Meth per day is by no means a small amount, which would be 20mg or less per day taken by mouth.
Are you snorting, smoking, IVing?

Hey, thanks for your response!

Primarily snorting, although sometimes smoking. I don't IV and have no plans to. I do intend to drop the alcohol when I find a suitable alternative but that has been my goal since I got my in-date for treatment. Hard to find benzos that may replace, whether via doc or street unfortunately .

I'll absolutely consider dropping the dosage on the test, would you say without the alcohol I could get away with the original dose?

I'll also give some mind to making the Methamphetamine use more minimal, as I've only ever gotten reference points of use from other addicts. I know that .25 a day is not much for the average tweaker. But good to hear from a more informed point of view.

 

[Phobos]

Hey, thanks for your response!

Primarily snorting, although sometimes smoking. I don't IV and have no plans to. I do intend to drop the alcohol when I find a suitable alternative but that has been my goal since I got my in-date for treatment. Hard to find benzos that may replace, whether via doc or street unfortunately .

I'll absolutely consider dropping the dosage on the test, would you say without the alcohol I could get away with the original dose?

I'll also give some mind to making the Methamphetamine use more minimal, as I've only ever gotten reference points of use from other addicts. I know that .25 a day is not much for the average tweaker. But good to hear from a more informed point of view.

It is possible that if you use less alcohol you will need less meth, and if you use less meth you will need less alcohol, it depends how you combine them really.
Like, if you use meth during the day and use alcohol to come down and sleep later on, taking less meth you will need less alcohol to come down.
Smoking is more fiendish so if you cut that you may end up using less.

If you cut out the alcohol completely taking 250mg should not be an issue, many people can tolerate it without an AI but you should have one just in case.
Personally I use very low dose Masteron Enanthate, like 30mg per week on top of my 150mg of test to reduce Estrogen sides, cause I fucking hate how Aromasin makes me feel even at a low dose, YMMV.
Have you used Test or other PEDs before?

 

[Dandreas345]

It is possible that if you use less alcohol you will need less meth, and if you use less meth you will need less alcohol, it depends how you combine them really.
Like, if you use meth during the day and use alcohol to come down and sleep later on, taking less meth you will need less alcohol to come down.
Smoking is more fiendish so if you cut that you may end up using less.

If you cut out the alcohol completely taking 250mg should not be an issue, many people can tolerate it without an AI but you should have one just in case.
Personally I use very low dose Masteron Enanthate, like 30mg per week on top of my 150mg of test to reduce Estrogen sides, cause I fucking hate how Aromasin makes me feel even at a low dose, YMMV.
Have you used Test or other PEDs before?

So, the process behind my poly substance use of methamphetamine and alcohol is primarily a synergistic one.

Before I discovered stimulants of any kind I was a big drinker. Once I did discover stimulants I always had been drinking and/or drunk when I used them. When I tried stimulants sans alcohol, it was always too much edge in the buzz for me to tolerate without a downer.

So as you can imagine, the meth high, while it is something I enjoy, is a bit too harsh for me without alcohol or benzo in the mix to compensate for the less desirable effects. So I guess in that vein, in order to reduce use it would require reduction on both fronts. Which is why I'm really trying to look for a long acting benzo to replace the more harmful solution I find in booze.

I'm definitely in agreement on the more fiendish aspects of smoking it, and while I do indulge in it is minimal and primarily supplemental to snorting. So no problem to do away with it entirely in light of our conversation.

I wasn't aware that Aromasin had negative sides. To answer your question this would be the first time I've used any form of PEDS. I have done a fair amount of research into them in the past and had planned on using them in the future, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

What negative sides have you experienced with AI? Are they common? I'd hate to have to take it and make me feel worse than I already do, ha.

 

[Phobos]

So, the process behind my poly substance use of methamphetamine and alcohol is primarily a synergistic one.

Before I discovered stimulants of any kind I was a big drinker. Once I did discover stimulants I always had been drinking and/or drunk when I used them. When I tried stimulants sans alcohol, it was always too much edge in the buzz for me to tolerate without a downer.

So as you can imagine, the meth high, while it is something I enjoy, is a bit too harsh for me without alcohol or benzo in the mix to compensate for the less desirable effects. So I guess in that vein, in order to reduce use it would require reduction on both fronts. Which is why I'm really trying to look for a long acting benzo to replace the more harmful solution I find in booze.

I'm definitely in agreement on the more fiendish aspects of smoking it, and while I do indulge in it is minimal and primarily supplemental to snorting. So no problem to do away with it entirely in light of our conversation.

I wasn't aware that Aromasin had negative sides. To answer your question this would be the first time I've used any form of PEDS. I have done a fair amount of research into them in the past and had planned on using them in the future, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

What negative sides have you experienced with AI? Are they common? I'd hate to have to take it and make me feel worse than I already do, ha.

The sides I get from Aromasin are tied to the dosage, taking a full 25mg pill will get me fever symptoms after 18 hours from taking it that will last about a day.
Like, I won't have an actual fever but my whole body will ache, especially my joints, things like slightly bumping the door frame with my elbow as I go through will hurt like a bitch, I will be weak, my mind is confused and foggy and I have no energy.
If I take half a pill I don't have pain but I still have the mental sides to a lesser extent, a quarter pill I am almost ok but still I don't feel 100% ok, and this is when I take that dose just 2x weekly.
Again, YMMV, many are fine with Aromasin.

Maybe open another thread in The Dark Side forums to get help on how to get off of the alcohol and meth?
I feel like introducing Testosterone while you are taking 2 drugs daily will make it very difficult for you to nail the most effective dose as ideally you would not want too many variables.


I also wanted to say that since I've been on Test, stimulants and psychedelics affect me less, I don't drink or take benzos so I am not able to say if anything will change with those.
I have been drastically reducing my drug use since I started Test, so hopefully something similar will happen with you.

 

[Dandreas345]

The sides I get from Aromasin are tied to the dosage, taking a full 25mg pill will get me fever symptoms after 18 hours from taking it that will last about a day.
Like, I won't have an actual fever but my whole body will ache, especially my joints, things like slightly bumping the door frame with my elbow as I go through will hurt like a bitch, I will be weak, my mind is confused and foggy and I have no energy.
If I take half a pill I don't have pain but I still have the mental sides to a lesser extent, a quarter pill I am almost ok but still I don't feel 100% ok, and this is when I take that dose just 2x weekly.
Again, YMMV, many are fine with Aromasin.

Maybe open another thread in The Dark Side forums to get help on how to get off of the alcohol and meth?
I feel like introducing Testosterone while you are taking 2 drugs daily will make it very difficult for you to nail the most effective dose as ideally you would not want too many variables.


I also wanted to say that since I've been on Test, stimulants and psychedelics affect me less, I don't drink or take benzos so I am not able to say if anything will change with those.
I have been drastically reducing my drug use since I started Test, so hopefully something similar will happen with you.

Oh gotcha. I'll just have to see what happens then. If not I'll look into what you said worked for you, those sides sound like shit haha.

I think that I will. Currently just waiting for my health benefits to kick in in January so that I can get into a treatment facility, but it's been refreshing talking about it even just in this thread so might as well. I just know that on my own, I'm the type that won't get off the bender/addiction train until I am in a place that separates me from the environment. A lot of people have recommended AA/NA etc and I was in the rooms before things went to shit, but I guess I just know what I need. Don't see the purpose in torturing myself more than I already am.

I feel like it would make things more difficult in many ways too, but on the other side of that coin, things would be pretty bleak if I deteriorate too much. It's far from ideal but, best idea I've got currently on how to maintain the physique I've got left, and not use the deterioration as an excuse to continue down a path of assured destruction. Another thought I had was possibly a orals only cycle. But that has it's own host of issues and concerns and interactions with drug use.

If test had that effect on me that would be a really interesting scenario haha. Not sure how I'd react to it, but I think that would be a positive thing overall.

 

[Phobos]

Ah, I forgot to mention, if you use moderate amounts of Testosterone for a few months, you are likely to be able to come off without significant problems, although your test levels may be somewhat lower forever.
For some people though this is not doable as their endogenous testosterone production does not resume shortly after stopping the Test injections, even if a proper PCT is done.
So before you start using Test, please consider that there is a chance you might need to stay on forever.
There are things that may or may not help your testicles stay functional while on Test and increase the chances of a speedy recovery, such as taking HCG and Taurine throughout the cycle.

 

[Dandreas345]

Ah, I forgot to mention, if you use moderate amounts of Testosterone for a few months, you are likely to be able to come off without significant problems, although your test levels may be somewhat lower forever.
For some people though this is not doable as their endogenous testosterone production does not resume shortly after stopping the Test injections, even if a proper PCT is done.
So before you start using Test, please consider that there is a chance you might need to stay on forever.
There are things that may or may not help your testicles stay functional while on Test and increase the chances of a speedy recovery, such as taking HCG and Taurine throughout the cycle.

I appreciate the extra info and advice my man. I'm fairly certain that over the years, my hormonal output has become a bit fucked due to the years of aggressive drug and alcohol use. I've gotten my T levels tested 3 or 4 times in the past 3-4 years and they've always come back in the lower range of normal, with one coming back in the 200's. The 200 level test was post bender in a treatment facility however. So in essence, I think that it's something that needs to happen either way, in the sense of TRT etc. .

I'll definitely keep in mind the HCG and Taurine. Still working on a feasible substitute for the alcohol consumption. I've been considering Phenibut if I can't find any genuine benzos, do you know anything about that? I heard it compares well to Klonopin in its efficacy.

Thanks again for all the info and response!

 

[Phobos]

I never used Phenibut, but I read that it is much more functional than alcohol, and less toxic.
But it definitely is a bad and dangerous combo with alcohol just like benzos, so you need to make sure you can stay away from the alcohol if you take phenibut or benzos.
In my personal experience Test helped me greatly reduce my anxiety and my ability to tolerate stressful situations.
This can help you get off of the drugs, but I think it's better if you start a scheduled taper before going cold turkey.

Aw and since you mentioned orals, I recommend you don't touch them with a 3 foot pole, they are liver toxic and your liver needs all the rest it can get, also no orals aromatise to bioidentical Estrogen, Dianabol will convert to an analogue of Estrogen but it's not advisable to use it solo, your body and mind need Estradiol to function properly, without it you would experience anxiety, depression, mental fog and other not so funny stuff that would increase your chances of a relapse which seems one of the last things that you need.

 

[Dandreas345]

I never used Phenibut, but I read that it is much more functional than alcohol, and less toxic.
But it definitely is a bad and dangerous combo with alcohol just like benzos, so you need to make sure you can stay away from the alcohol if you take phenibut or benzos.
In my personal experience Test helped me greatly reduce my anxiety and my ability to tolerate stressful situations.
This can help you get off of the drugs, but I think it's better if you start a scheduled taper before going cold turkey.

Aw and since you mentioned orals, I recommend you don't touch them with a 3 foot pole, they are liver toxic and your liver needs all the rest it can get, also no orals aromatise to bioidentical Estrogen, Dianabol will convert to an analogue of Estrogen but it's not advisable to use it solo, your body and mind need Estradiol to function properly, without it you would experience anxiety, depression, mental fog and other not so funny stuff that would increase your chances of a relapse which seems one of the last things that you need.

Yes, absolutely. If I obtain some benzodiazepines or phenibut, the alcohol is over and done with. I really can't wait to not drink booze all the time honestly. I think that's great news about the effects you described with the testosterone. I'm really pumped to see what will happen.

Okay, good to know. I'll steer clear of the orals. Maybe give them some consideration down the road when I'm stable, clean and sober. I definitely don't want to add to the misery of my current situation!

 

[Phobos]

Yes, absolutely. If I obtain some benzodiazepines or phenibut, the alcohol is over and done with. I really can't wait to not drink booze all the time honestly. I think that's great news about the effects you described with the testosterone. I'm really pumped to see what will happen.

Okay, good to know. I'll steer clear of the orals. Maybe give them some consideration down the road when I'm stable, clean and sober. I definitely don't want to add to the misery of my current situation!

The only reason to use orals really is when you have some sort of strength or bodybuilding competition, on top of the other injectables that would be used for that sort of thing.
If you just want to be big and ripped for lifestyle purposes they won't give you anything that you can't get with injectables.
That being said, some people like to use orals such as Dianabol, Anadrol, Superdrol, or Halo once per week right before training a lift or a body part they feel it's lagging to benefit from the immediate strength boost.
Used that way the liver doesn't get taxed as it's got plenty time to recover between doses.

 

[Dandreas345]

The only reason to use orals really is when you have some sort of strength or bodybuilding competition, on top of the other injectables that would be used for that sort of thing.
If you just want to be big and ripped for lifestyle purposes they won't give you anything that you can't get with injectables.
That being said, some people like to use orals such as Dianabol, Anadrol, Superdrol, or Halo once per week right before training a lift or a body part they feel it's lagging to benefit from the immediate strength boost.
Used that way the liver doesn't get taxed as it's got plenty time to recover between doses.

Makes perfect sense regarding the orals. I still may run some oral Winstrol at comparatively extremely low dose to normal cycle dosages (EG - sub 25mg p/d), but still on the fence about it really. Using as a pre work out sounds like a good way to go too honestly.

I thought I'd chime in here with a little update. I began my 250mg/test injections 3 days ago now with one 250mg injection. Went well, I have a friend I'm currently staying with that was a paramedic so they're familiar with intramuscular shots, little to no room for error there. The next day I experienced some water retention and overall looked "puffier", which remained the day after. I am assuming (although haven't done bloods as I'll likely wait till mid-cycle for a update), that these are high E symptoms which would make sense, due to my difficulty with nixing the alcohol entirely thus far I'm likely experiencing some high aromatization than I otherwise would, and my Estrogen was probably already higher than average, with the alcohol intake.

I've also experienced rapid weight gain on the scale at least, likely due to the water retention I'm experiencing. I was 175-180 lbs day of injection, today I stand at 185-188 lbs (giving the range to account for water weight fluctuations).

So to answer that I took .25mg of the Arimidex, which seemed to clear that up some today. I may up my dosage to 0.5mg tomorrow, for my second weekly dose, to see if it clears it up completely (although I am wary of crashing my Estrogen, as I know life without it sucks ass too).

Good news on the alcohol however is that I got a modest supply of unfortunately, short acting benzos, but I'll take what I can get. So the alcohol is coming to an end (hopefully), although even with the benzos, it is far from ideal with quitting. I'm discovering that as much as I hate the booze, and felt like I was so sick of it, I do enjoy it enough that I feel it calling me back frequently. It somehow doesn't seem to influence fat deposit fluctuation however. Despite the water retention I've experienced, and quick weight gain since beginning of cycle, I remain quite lean even after months of 1000kcal p/d excesses due to Vodka intake.

In conclusion at the very least the benzo supply I've acquired is lessening the alcohol intake, and I think I will be very successful in at the very least weaning down to a more acceptable rate of consumption, if not complete cessation of consumption.

Got into the gym for my first proper session today on cycle, did my full body split as I've done for the past 6 months or so which has yielded me great gains as a natty (8ish years of PPL variations and 5 day bro splits before that), so I thought I would stick with it. Felt fucking great honestly, great pumps, less energy than you'd expect due to my proclivities, but sweating like a horse and really feeling good.

Questions I might have if anyone is willing to answer or help with more information --

Should I continue with a 4 day a week full body split? I know that a lot of people on cycle will do more of a drawn out 5-6 day split to focus more on each muscle group and get more volume in.

Is the water retention something that I should associate with high estrogen? Or is it a common initial response to AAS? To provide a little more context I was finding myself a bit more emotional as well, a bit mores sappy, noticeably enough that I correlated the two.

Should I get bloods a bit earlier? I know most recommendations state to wait until you're about halfway through your cycle to draw comparisons, however with my unique set of circumstances with the moderate habitual substance use, I thought it might be prudent although also expensive and inconvenient.

Thanks for reading, and any answers. I'll be posting here a few times a week as log type thing, and to see if anyone can answer my noob cycle questions haha.

 

[0.o_LaCuNa_o.0]

Makes perfect sense regarding the orals. I still may run some oral Winstrol at comparatively extremely low dose to normal cycle dosages (EG - sub 25mg p/d), but still on the fence about it really. Using as a pre work out sounds like a good way to go too honestly.

I thought I'd chime in here with a little update. I began my 250mg/test injections 3 days ago now with one 250mg injection. Went well, I have a friend I'm currently staying with that was a paramedic so they're familiar with intramuscular shots, little to no room for error there. The next day I experienced some water retention and overall looked "puffier", which remained the day after. I am assuming (although haven't done bloods as I'll likely wait till mid-cycle for a update), that these are high E symptoms which would make sense, due to my difficulty with nixing the alcohol entirely thus far I'm likely experiencing some high aromatization than I otherwise would, and my Estrogen was probably already higher than average, with the alcohol intake.

I've also experienced rapid weight gain on the scale at least, likely due to the water retention I'm experiencing. I was 175-180 lbs day of injection, today I stand at 185-188 lbs (giving the range to account for water weight fluctuations).

So to answer that I took .25mg of the Arimidex, which seemed to clear that up some today. I may up my dosage to 0.5mg tomorrow, for my second weekly dose, to see if it clears it up completely (although I am wary of crashing my Estrogen, as I know life without it sucks ass too).

Good news on the alcohol however is that I got a modest supply of unfortunately, short acting benzos, but I'll take what I can get. So the alcohol is coming to an end (hopefully), although even with the benzos, it is far from ideal with quitting. I'm discovering that as much as I hate the booze, and felt like I was so sick of it, I do enjoy it enough that I feel it calling me back frequently. It somehow doesn't seem to influence fat deposit fluctuation however. Despite the water retention I've experienced, and quick weight gain since beginning of cycle, I remain quite lean even after months of 1000kcal p/d excesses due to Vodka intake.

In conclusion at the very least the benzo supply I've acquired is lessening the alcohol intake, and I think I will be very successful in at the very least weaning down to a more acceptable rate of consumption, if not complete cessation of consumption.

Got into the gym for my first proper session today on cycle, did my full body split as I've done for the past 6 months or so which has yielded me great gains as a natty (8ish years of PPL variations and 5 day bro splits before that), so I thought I would stick with it. Felt fucking great honestly, great pumps, less energy than you'd expect due to my proclivities, but sweating like a horse and really feeling good.

Questions I might have if anyone is willing to answer or help with more information --

Should I continue with a 4 day a week full body split? I know that a lot of people on cycle will do more of a drawn out 5-6 day split to focus more on each muscle group and get more volume in.

Is the water retention something that I should associate with high estrogen? Or is it a common initial response to AAS? To provide a little more context I was finding myself a bit more emotional as well, a bit mores sappy, noticeably enough that I correlated the two.

Should I get bloods a bit earlier? I know most recommendations state to wait until you're about halfway through your cycle to draw comparisons, however with my unique set of circumstances with the moderate habitual substance use, I thought it might be prudent although also expensive and inconvenient.

Thanks for reading, and any answers. I'll be posting here a few times a week as log type thing, and to see if anyone can answer my noob cycle questions haha.

First of all, what kind of test are you on? Long acting or short?

Your estrogen will not escalate badly in the span of 3 days. The water retention/puffiness is normal and to be expected on Test, more so with Enanthate and Cypionate over Propionate.

Alcohol and working out don’t really mix. Alcohol causes nitrogen catabolism and you don’t want that. You want as much nitrogen retention as you can get for muscle size. Plus alcohol will just make you less motivated and lazier in the gym. If you can’t completely cut the alcohol, atleast drastically reduce its intake. Trust me on that.

250mg of test is slightly above a cruising dose for most bodybuilders. The fact that you’re using only 250mg of test alone, without anything else, means that you’re not really going to see dramatic changes(if that’s what you want).

Since this is your first cycle you’re going to want the most bang for your buck. I’d say you should throw in some D-bol. It will give you a dramatic increase in size in a relatively short time frame. It also adds synergy. AAS works best when you combine compounds, especially over using high dosages of a single ester.

Most of the bodybuilders that get liver issues because of orals is because they abuse them. They’re on crazy dosages for too long a time.

If you add in a low dose of dianabol along with your test, you’ll get much, much better results. Forget about the winstrol, it’s more for cutting & vascularity and specialized gains once you have more experience in the gym.

TLDR; Cut down heavily on the booze, or quit completely. Reduce meth as much as you can. Add in low dose D-bol for much better synergistic gains. Go easy on the A.I, you don’t really need it with 250mg of test. You should only use the A.I when you have clear estrogen side effects.

Enjoy those Gainzzz!

 

[Dandreas345]

First of all, what kind of test are you on? Long acting or short?

Your estrogen will not escalate badly in the span of 3 days. The water retention/puffiness is normal and to be expected on Test, more so with Enanthate and Cypionate over Propionate.

Alcohol and working out don’t really mix. Alcohol causes nitrogen catabolism and you don’t want that. You want as much nitrogen retention as you can get for muscle size. Plus alcohol will just make you less motivated and lazier in the gym. If you can’t completely cut the alcohol, atleast drastically reduce its intake. Trust me on that.

250mg of test is slightly above a cruising dose for most bodybuilders. The fact that you’re using only 250mg of test alone, without anything else, means that you’re not really going to see dramatic changes(if that’s what you want).

Since this is your first cycle you’re going to want the most bang for your buck. I’d say you should throw in some D-bol. It will give you a dramatic increase in size in a relatively short time frame. It also adds synergy. AAS works best when you combine compounds, especially over using high dosages of a single ester.

Most of the bodybuilders that get liver issues because of orals is because they abuse them. They’re on crazy dosages for too long a time.

If you add in a low dose of dianabol along with your test, you’ll get much, much better results. Forget about the winstrol, it’s more for cutting & vascularity and specialized gains once you have more experience in the gym.

TLDR; Cut down heavily on the booze, or quit completely. Reduce meth as much as you can. Add in low dose D-bol for much better synergistic gains. Go easy on the A.I, you don’t really need it with 250mg of test. You should only use the A.I when you have clear estrogen side effects.

Enjoy those Gainzzz!

Hey man, thanks for the response!

Ah yes, I forgot to include and specify that. I'm on Testosterone Enanthate, so a long ester Test. At 250mg/p/w but I'm debating upping to 500, with my second injection being tomorrow evening if so.

Okay good to know on the Estrogen, taking the very low dose AI did seem to drain some of the water retention but that absolutely could've been a placebo effect on my part and just a natural process of the body adjusting to the exogenous hormone flood.

Yep, I'm definitely in agreement on the Alcohol. First time I've really tried to maintain and be proactive about the potential loss of/maintenance of/improvement of my physique during a alcohol/drug relapse. I've gotten some benzos so I'm working on a pretty accelerated taper off the stuff.

I'll definitely consider throwing in some Dianabol, I was thinking about putting in a secondary order to my source anyways, to get some precautionary AI and some more test etc. . Dbol is cheap and I don't see any reason why not. I could do the low dose stuff I had mentioned about the Winstrol as well if I'm really worried about the liver sides. I'm also taking NAC 600mg a day, for liver health. Plus other supplements in that stack.

Do you think, if I tried the Winstrol that I could see any viable results in terms of size/definition in my physique? I just already have a moderate supply of it, but I can see how it would be used by people who have a specific cutting goal in mind. I do know how to achieve the results I want in the gym as I've been lifting off/on for 8 years or so now, but the objective here is definitely size, noticeable change, etc. . Especially considering it's my first cycle.

Definitely working on reducing meth ASAP, but alcohol is the first priority at the moment. The meth use tends to be much more moderate, although shitty to be using in its own vein.

Thanks bro! Hopefully by the end of my log I'll have some good shit to report here.

 

[0.o_LaCuNa_o.0]

Hey man, thanks for the response!

Ah yes, I forgot to include and specify that. I'm on Testosterone Enanthate, so a long ester Test. At 250mg/p/w but I'm debating upping to 500, with my second injection being tomorrow evening if so.

Okay good to know on the Estrogen, taking the very low dose AI did seem to drain some of the water retention but that absolutely could've been a placebo effect on my part and just a natural process of the body adjusting to the exogenous hormone flood.

Yep, I'm definitely in agreement on the Alcohol. First time I've really tried to maintain and be proactive about the potential loss of/maintenance of/improvement of my physique during a alcohol/drug relapse. I've gotten some benzos so I'm working on a pretty accelerated taper off the stuff.

I'll definitely consider throwing in some Dianabol, I was thinking about putting in a secondary order to my source anyways, to get some precautionary AI and some more test etc. . Dbol is cheap and I don't see any reason why not. I could do the low dose stuff I had mentioned about the Winstrol as well if I'm really worried about the liver sides. I'm also taking NAC 600mg a day, for liver health. Plus other supplements in that stack.

Do you think, if I tried the Winstrol that I could see any viable results in terms of size/definition in my physique? I just already have a moderate supply of it, but I can see how it would be used by people who have a specific cutting goal in mind. I do know how to achieve the results I want in the gym as I've been lifting off/on for 8 years or so now, but the objective here is definitely size, noticeable change, etc. . Especially considering it's my first cycle.

Definitely working on reducing meth ASAP, but alcohol is the first priority at the moment. The meth use tends to be much more moderate, although shitty to be using in its own vein.

Thanks bro! Hopefully by the end of my log I'll have some good shit to report here.

Personally I would always use a DHT derivative in all my cycles for more synergy & gains. And Winstrol would be my DHT choice.

Winstrol will give you vascularity & hardness. It's not really about the size.

With AAS it is true that you can Cut & Bulk at the same time, as long as your diet is on point.

I believe you are highly motivated right now for gains. This, coupled with the fact you have been working out for about 8 years, leads me to recommend definetly adding the D-bol to your cycle. If I was you, with Winstrol also on hand I'd be adding it to the mix too. So 3 esters.

Some concepts in the bodybuilding community are heavily preached, such as how to cut and how to bulk.

If you do decide to use all 3 compounds together, don't expect others to understand or accept it. They'll just give you a headache of why it's wrong etc etc. Save yourself the trouble and just stay focused on yourself, and on the gains.

 

[Phobos]

Personally I would always use a DHT derivative in all my cycles for more synergy & gains. And Winstrol would be my DHT choice.

Winstrol will give you vascularity & hardness. It's not really about the size.

With AAS it is true that you can Cut & Bulk at the same time, as long as your diet is on point.

I believe you are highly motivated right now for gains. This, coupled with the fact you have been working out for about 8 years, leads me to recommend definetly adding the D-bol to your cycle. If I was you, with Winstrol also on hand I'd be adding it to the mix too. So 3 esters.

Some concepts in the bodybuilding community are heavily preached, such as how to cut and how to bulk.

If you do decide to use all 3 compounds together, don't expect others to understand or accept it. They'll just give you a headache of why it's wrong etc etc. Save yourself the trouble and just stay focused on yourself, and on the gains.

I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with your recommendation of using 2 orals to a person that hasn't completely quit alcohol already.
This is a harm reduction forum and if some test gets our friend here to be motivated enough that he quits using drugs, that's great.
Maybe another DHT derivative injectable could be added to get him into an even more energetic mind state would make sense, especially since he is feeling in a way that could be attributed to elevated estrogen.
Honestly I think the advice you are giving is a bit reckless given the context, there is no need to add an oral at the start of a cycle, especially not someone's first cycle ever.

 

[Dandreas345]

Personally I would always use a DHT derivative in all my cycles for more synergy & gains. And Winstrol would be my DHT choice.

Winstrol will give you vascularity & hardness. It's not really about the size.

With AAS it is true that you can Cut & Bulk at the same time, as long as your diet is on point.

I believe you are highly motivated right now for gains. This, coupled with the fact you have been working out for about 8 years, leads me to recommend definetly adding the D-bol to your cycle. If I was you, with Winstrol also on hand I'd be adding it to the mix too. So 3 esters.

Some concepts in the bodybuilding community are heavily preached, such as how to cut and how to bulk.

If you do decide to use all 3 compounds together, don't expect others to understand or accept it. They'll just give you a headache of why it's wrong etc etc. Save yourself the trouble and just stay focused on yourself, and on the gains.

I'll definitely take all that into consideration but likely lean on the half/quarter typical dose of oral's especially if I stack a few. Just in the interest of liver health and being able to run them longer than average, as I've seen a few reports of people receiving good gains, and on average keeping more of them that way (could be very subjective experiences but I'll take it for the reduced liver values lol).

I definitely am highly motivated for gains, always have been so I'd not want to waste my first cycle, I appreciate all the info. I'll be completely free of the alcohol in 4 days according to my current taper, so I'm looking forward to the throwing the orals in then.

I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with your recommendation of using 2 orals to a person that hasn't completely quit alcohol already.
This is a harm reduction forum and if some test gets our friend here to be motivated enough that he quits using drugs, that's great.
Maybe another DHT derivative injectable could be added to get him into an even more energetic mind state would make sense, especially since he is feeling in a way that could be attributed to elevated estrogen.
Honestly I think the advice you are giving is a bit reckless given the context, there is no need to add an oral at the start of a cycle, especially not someone's first cycle ever.

I definitely wouldn't begin to stack any oral steroids before I was fully done with the alcohol, which I'm on track for fortunately.

I've already noticed more drive and somewhat altered thought process regarding my drug use and the circumstances I find myself in (for the better). Although its early yet, still good signs. I'm not 100% sure if the water retention/slight emotional sappiness came from a immediate estrogenic boost, but if that comes back I'll continue with the AI, smallest dose possible whenever it creeps in.

What would you recommend in another DHT derivative injectable?

 

[Phobos]

What would you recommend in another DHT derivative injectable?

From my personal experience and that of another person I am really close to, Masteron.
Very low dose, for 250mg of Test per week you would take about 50-80mg per week if you only want to use it for Estrogen management and a slight mood/energy boost.
Taking 100 to 200mg you will notice a strength boost as well, but honestly it is best to use it at the end of a cutting cycle if you want to see what it can do for you at a higher dose, as it is great at thinning out your skin, making your veins pop and giving your muscles a harder appearance and better separation, but this will only happen if you have a reasonably low BF%, like 12% or less.
You will see bodybuilders use it in preparation for a show, easily taking 500mg per week.

The downsides are that it if you are prone to MPB it will really accelerate that, and the more you take the more it will dry out your joints and make you prone to injury, and it will increase your LDL and decrease your HDL.
It can also make your tendons and ligaments weaker due to its effect on collagen synthesis, you may experience this problem or not, and it will depend on how much you take, basically don't be surprised if you get injured running 100 or 200mg Masteron per week.

I've been taking about 40mg per week for about a year now and I haven't needed any AIs since I started, and it even lowered my blood pressure back down to 120/80 as it reduced the amount of water I retain.
It won't reduce your Estrogen, mind you, it just counters Estrogen's effects.

 

[Dandreas345]

From my personal experience and that of another person I am really close to, Masteron.
Very low dose, for 250mg of Test per week you would take about 50-80mg per week if you only want to use it for Estrogen management and a slight mood/energy boost.
Taking 100 to 200mg you will notice a strength boost as well, but honestly it is best to use it at the end of a cutting cycle if you want to see what it can do for you at a higher dose, as it is great at thinning out your skin, making your veins pop and giving your muscles a harder appearance and better separation, but this will only happen if you have a reasonably low BF%, like 12% or less.
You will see bodybuilders use it in preparation for a show, easily taking 500mg per week.

The downsides are that it if you are prone to MPB it will really accelerate that, and the more you take the more it will dry out your joints and make you prone to injury, and it will increase your LDL and decrease your HDL.
It can also make your tendons and ligaments weaker due to its effect on collagen synthesis, you may experience this problem or not, and it will depend on how much you take, basically don't be surprised if you get injured running 100 or 200mg Masteron per week.

I've been taking about 40mg per week for about a year now and I haven't needed any AIs since I started, and it even lowered my blood pressure back down to 120/80 as it reduced the amount of water I retain.
It won't reduce your Estrogen, mind you, it just counters Estrogen's effects.

Thanks again for all the tips man.

So far the the AI I've got in the Arimidex hasn't been provoking any negative sides, at least at the very low dose that I've taken it at once so far, so that's good. I'll go ahead and get some Masteron though too to stack. I'm not very susceptible to MPB that I know of but I can't tell until I expose myself to these compounds for sure. I just know that my family has crazy good genetics for hair, my grandfather literally kept all of his hair even during chemo for stage 4 lung cancer, and died with a full head of hair (minus a modest widows peak but none the less), and that seems to be synonymous on both sides of my family.

I'm still retaining some water, and have put on about 10 lbs in short order due to the retention. Due to my own research over the past few days however I've learned it seems to be about average when you get on cycle, to put on a bit of water weight, and that it dissipates as you get later into your cycle. So perhaps less to do with Estrogen, more to do with regular bodily function.

Still considering the orals for when I stop drinking in a few days here. Would you say I'd be good to go on those in that case as well?