Bupe Jumping off suboxone from 12mg daily?

[AminoAcid]

@Jones-in_J

Hey dude, how are things with you?? Are you still going to go through withdrawal?

I really wish I could help you more because you've been great support for me, but I honestly have zero experience with heroin. The heaviest opiate I ever took was oxymorphone and that was a one off, I was mostly addicted to OTC codeine and dihydrocodeine (you don't need a script for either here in Australia, so obviously I abused the shit out of them). Most drugs easily available here in Sydney are the party drugs, so I never encountered heroin.

Have you ever considered ibogaine? I saw a documentary on it and the success rate is surprisingly very high. The only problem is that it can cost a fair bit.

Here's the link to the doco if you want to check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_jbjTMj0Mo&playnext=1&list=PL0E585844DBEF4743&feature=results_main

 

[theseeker]

Hey AA- I'm really impressed with your story. I'm trying to finally finish my tramadol and Klonopin taper and your story really fortified my resolve to get this shit out of my life for good. I was going to take a little more tram tonight because...you know...it's Friday....why not give myself a break....I've been good all week. LOL. But now after reading this post, I realize I'm being a pussy. I can even sleep at night for christ's sake. I just wake up in a pool of sweat.

 

[AminoAcid]

You can do it mate! You have to go to hell before you can get to heaven. Try and relax and listen to some good music or distract yourself in any way possible. If it gets too heavy or you get the restless leg-arm syndrome (a nasty feeling) go to the local doctor and get some benzos (I wish I had done this at the start of my withdrawal, not at the end). I wish you the best of luck! Keep us updated on how you're going!

It's now 12:15 Sunday morning and I haven't taken any Suboxone or opiates since the Tuesday before last (now day 12). I feel near perfect, but the only problem is EPIC insomnia. I'm awake for periods of 35+ hours and even when I manage to get to sleep I wake up like 2 hours later semingly completely refreshed. I think my body became so used to being groggy and sleepy on Suboxone over years, and since it's no longer there my body hasn't adjusted properly yet.

But as far as any withdrawal symptoms, Nada, nihilo, zero. I haven't felt this happy in a long time.

 

[Coraline]

Congratulations AminoAcid and Theseeker!!!

Y'all maybe at different stages in recovery but wow! I'm impressed!!

It takes a lot of will power and strength to do what y'all are doing. Keep it up!

 

[Znegative]

Yeah congratulations, that's really awsome that you stuck with it. Just be aware that you might still get some risidual depression/anxiety, or even some physical withdrawal symptoms from time to time. This is completely normal as its going to take a while for your brain to completely reset itself back to normal. Just push through that PAWS!

 

[80mg]

YO...the time thing...is exactly how I feel. YEARS turn into feelingl ike months =/

 

[AminoAcid]

This is completely normal as its going to take a while for your brain to completely reset itself back to normal.

Thanks for the heads up. Yeah I just did some reading on PAWS and apparantly it can last a long time (as in months), and one of the hallmarks is insomnia, which is absolutely incredible at the moment. I must be about 40+ hours awake now, and not tired in the slightest, I normally wouldn't even be able to do that with some speed.

It's the weekend here so I have to wait until Monday and then I will see the university doctor to see what they say. I obviously can't start work in this state as there would be the risk of "crashing" in the middle of a shift.

Is there such thing as sleeping tablets that aren't addictive? I don't mean those rubbish "herbal" things that do nothing, but something that genuinely works. I would take some dramamine (Dimenhydrinate) but that will be a last resort as I find the effects particularly unpleasant. I tried drinking a couple of Coronas, but it didn't help at all.

 

[theseeker]

YO...the time thing...is exactly how I feel. YEARS turn into feelingl ike months =/

Holy shit, this is soooo true. A second in real time is an hour in withdrawal time. I'll fall asleep for like 20 minutes and think I slept all night...then I look at the clock and I'm like....holy shit.

 

[AminoAcid]

You guys were definitely right about the PAWS. I've now been awake for a little over 60 hours straight and still not tired in the slightest. I don't think I've ever been awake this long in my whole life, even when on amphetamines. Not only does the thought of sleep not interest me, but it sort sickens me for some reason. It's just ridiculous.

I think what's happened is that over the 4 years my brain became dependant on the Suboxone as a sleeping-aid (especially it being such a high dose), and now that it has been suddenly and quickly withdrawn completely my mind is just wired to the max. It's like it has forgotten how to sleep without an opiate.

Is this normal? Has anyone else experienced this issue?

The problem now is that to regain a proper sleeping schedule necessary for work will take at least a couple weeks (I'm guessing). Either that or I just bite the bullet, risk another addiction, and get a benzo script.

 

[jones-in_J]

You guys were definitely right about the PAWS. I've now been awake for a little over 60 hours straight and still not tired in the slightest. I don't think I've ever been awake this long in my whole life, even when on amphetamines. Not only does the thought of sleep not interest me, but it sort sickens me for some reason. It's just ridiculous.

I think what's happened is that over the 4 years my brain became dependant on the Suboxone as a sleeping-aid (especially it being such a high dose), and now that it has been suddenly and quickly withdrawn completely my mind is just wired to the max. It's like it has forgotten how to sleep without an opiate.

Is this normal? Has anyone else experienced this issue?

The problem now is that to regain a proper sleeping schedule necessary for work will take at least a couple weeks (I'm guessing). Either that or I just bite the bullet, risk another addiction, and get a benzo script.

It sucks ass but its completely normal to have your sleep affected like this

 

[cire113]

Im not trying to be a dick but u got a long way to go bro.. Or maybe you don't?

Keep staying positive;; I would totally forget BL and post on a recovery forum If i had 12 days off sub lol... Thats just me personally; no offense to BL

I would use every resource you can.. you will need it trust me .. Everything!.. The hard part isn't quitting but staying sober long term..

Drugs are just the tip of the Iceberg illusion with addiction;(hopefully 1 person understands this)

If all we had to do was quit subs from a physiological standpoint it would be so easy.. But the whole point of being on subs is to build life skills while on it so when you get off you have a new way to approach life..

I would try to wear yourself out with exercise as much as possible to get some sleep..and wake up earlier than usual so your tired by end of day

the insomnia u describe sounds more like withdrawal symptom; U don't get PAWS at day 12 bro thats still acute IMO...Takes longer than people think for sub to be eliminated completely from body;

But who cares honestly..point is ur not sleeping

Try some melatonin; anything non-addictive to help sleep if your desperate..

I would exercise at least 30 mins minimum cardio for the next 1,000,000 years.. find other recovering addicts, therapy,.. fucking everything u can think of do it..

Do not ever underestimate addiction just because you have X clean time...

All of the above only applies if deep inside you believe your an addict; if not just disregard entire message

 

[dirtyfrenchman83]

suboxone withdrawls are not that bad at all, i detoxed from 16mgs (2years on) in jail and i slept for like 2 days, had no problem eating, had some small hot and cold flashes, but nothing like i thought it would be. SO if you are at home get some sleeping pills/xanax,benzo's,ect. you will be fine in 3-4 days, the only paws syndrome i had was sleep problems and hot and cold flashes but not bad ones...kickin subs is 75% mental..

 

[Tommyboy]

Im not trying to be a dick but u got a long way to go bro.. Or maybe you don't?

Keep staying positive;; I would totally forget BL and post on a recovery forum If i had 12 days off sub lol... Thats just me personally; no offense to BL

The Dark Side is our forum that focuses on recovery among other things, so it's not necessary to leave BL if they are now in recovery. A lot of members here no longer use drugs, and there are many social forums on here that have nothing to do with drugs at all. I agree that some people are better off staying away from some of the forums here that are focused on drug use since they can be triggering though.

suboxone withdrawls are not that bad at all, i detoxed from 16mgs (2years on) in jail and i slept for like 2 days, had no problem eating, had some small hot and cold flashes, but nothing like i thought it would be. SO if you are at home get some sleeping pills/xanax,benzo's,ect. you will be fine in 3-4 days, the only paws syndrome i had was sleep problems and hot and cold flashes but not bad ones...kickin subs is 75% mental..

You seem to be in the minority with your experience. Everybody experiences things differently, but I have yet to hear of anybody else that kicked a 2 year 16mg/day suboxone habit and only complain of some minor hot/cold flashes.

 

[AminoAcid]

Thanks for the reply cire113. I think I'll stick with Bluelight as the people here have been really great at helping me get off Suboxone.

I'm in a unique position where I don't really have a history of abusing hard opiates (other than the Sub), so chances of relapse are hopefully minimized. I was originally mainly addicted to codeine and dihydrocodeine and would take probably on average 700-900mg daily (no that's not a typo, codeine is OTC here in Aus-land). Although during that addiction I would also dabble with oxymorphone, opium, and tramadol, I never had a fully consistent addiction beyond codeine/dihydrocodeine.

So the only real risk of relapse is either going back on the Suboxone, or on codeine (which probably would suck and seem minimal now anyway). Luckily I have no intense craving for either.

It's now day nearing the end of day 13, no physical discomfort, bowels back to normal, eating well. BUT still a bit lethargic, and although I got some sleep last night I can tell I'm at the start of another 60+ marathon of insomnia.

I was just talking to my Dad whose a doctor on the phone about it, and he recommends going to a local GP and getting some benzodiazepines. He says 60+ hours is just crazy and I definitely need to do something about it, which I of course agree with. Life is pretty much on hold until I can get this under control.

 

[hamwaggle]

@AminoAcid

To be completely honest I was a lazy shit while on suboxone and was in school so I don't really have any experience exercising on the suboxone. I only started to exercise heavily after I got off of it. As far as the meds I was prescribed it was clonidine, gabapentin, promethazine, ibuprofen, and chlordiazepoxide (librium). The librium is a long acting but weak benzodiazepam. I only took that for 7 days as that can be addicting as well. Other doctors will give small quantities of valium in place of this but my doctor feels like that may not be the smartest thing as valium is more powerful and shorter acting. Some docs won't give any benznos at all for people detoxing off subs but most good ones know that it helps tremendously.

 

[AminoAcid]

^^ Thanks for the reply hamwaggle. That's a really good withdrawal apparatus you had. Yeah I found that ibuprofen helped at least a bit (and when you're withdrawing "a bit" can mean a lot) for the inevitable aches and pains. I'll try and find if promethiazine is OTC here tommorrow and give it a try.

You're right in that the only thing the doctor gave me was 6 x 5mg valium, which in the scheme of things did shit all. I took 3 at once and still stayed awake for days. Then again, benzos have never really worked properly for me. Everyone seems to love them, but every time I've taken them they've had literally zero recreational value, and only rarely make me tired. I guess I have a defunt benzo-gene, lol.

I went to the local doctor yesterday and described the staying awake for days + restless arms and legs (but not about Sub-withdrawal as I didn't want him to think I was doctor-shopping) and he gave me a referral to an insomnia clinic and said they'll take care of the medication. Problem is it costs $90 for just an introductory appointment with them. Still considering it though.

I just got off the phone to my Dad (whose been really supportive, and my relationship with him is usually rocky at best) again and he says since I don't have the benzos I should get melatonin (3-5mg per night) and tryptophan. He says the melatonin works really well and puts you to sleep in roughly an hour, and is entirely non-addictive. Will definitely give both a shot and report back.

It's now day 15 and I would be lying if I was to say I felt good, I simply don't. Aches and cramps, coughed up a full cup's worth of sputum today, those annoying hot/cold flashes and random sweating. If I could draw a graph of withdrawal symptom intensity over time I would say it has an obvious first large peak, which then resides around day 8-9, then a lull where you feel "OK" with minimal physical symptoms other than weakness, BUT then you get the PAWS with full-blown insomnia and flu-like symptoms.

Whoever said I was far from over it, you were fucking right.

I've resorted to drinking beer to get rid of the pain, lol.

 

[beengerman]

suboxone withdrawls are not that bad at all, i detoxed from 16mgs (2years on) in jail and i slept for like 2 days, had no problem eating, had some small hot and cold flashes, but nothing like i thought it would be. SO if you are at home get some sleeping pills/xanax,benzo's,ect. you will be fine in 3-4 days, the only paws syndrome i had was sleep problems and hot and cold flashes but not bad ones...kickin subs is 75% mental..

i have never heard this either. if it was that easy it, trust me, id be off.

 

[Tommyboy]

You're right in that the only thing the doctor gave me was 6 x 5mg valium, which in the scheme of things did shit all. I took 3 at once and still stayed awake for days. Then again, benzos have never really worked properly for me. Everyone seems to love them, but every time I've taken them they've had literally zero recreational value, and only rarely make me tired. I guess I have a defunt benzo-gene, lol.

Well benzos aren't particularly euphoric on their own, and valium helps more with muscle aches and anxiety when withdrawing. If it's sleep you are trying to achieve then valium isn't that useful for that if you are in withdrawals, and you would need something like xanax or temazepam to help knock you out a bit more. I've only met a few people that find valium to be more sedating than some other benzos, but everyone else would need 20-30mg to really knock them out, but more than that if they are kicking hard.

 

[dirtyfrenchman83]

possibly i was in jail and there was nothing i could to to get more so the mental torture wasn't bad as alot others expierence and I dont mean to down play anyones wd's/addiction

 

[The.Ghost]

If Seroquel worked in the past, why not ask for more? It isn't addictive and I doubt a doctor would think twice about prescribing it to someone with insomnia that bad. I'd cut the dose, though. Most people get knocked out by 50 mg.

Of course, there are other non-addictive sleep meds. There have been threads about this, I'm sure you'll have no trouble finding them. FWIW, the strongest sleeping pill I've come across (and I've been on pretty much all of them) is olanzapine. A single 2.5 mg tablet should nail you to your bed for a full night. It does have a moderate next-day hangover, though.