Cocaine IV cocaine overriding opiate withdrawal?? Can a science-savvy someone explain this?

[crzydiamond]

Interesting. I used to joke about the idea of using cocaine to get people off o heroin...can you just imagine trying to get your health insurance to fund a 10 day cocaine binge..."but really, it'll get me off heroin!!"
I know it sounds crazy lol. But after experiencing it I wondered why so may other people didn't try.

The comedown from the coke sucks, but it's only a day or so of lethargy, restless twitching of leg, and generally feeling blah. Better anyway than opiate wd

Here's the abstract from a study done on cocaine reducing opiate withdrawal from methadone and bupe.

source

Abstract:



"In a 6-month randomized trial comparing 125 opiate-dependent patients who were assigned to four treatment groups (2 or 6 mg of buprenorphine and 35 or 65 mg of methadone), we examined the effects of cocaine use on opiate withdrawal symptoms measured on a 25-item scale on which the scores range from 0 to 75. For the methadone-maintained patients receiving the relatively low dose (35 mg), weekly withdrawal symptoms were highest when the urine toxicology for that week indicated no cocaine use. Similar associations were found for buprenorphine. Thus, when using cocaine at a low maintenance opiate dose, persistent opiate withdrawal symptoms were reduced, which is consistent with previous naloxone-precipitated withdrawal studies. Interestingly, with a higher dose of buprenorphine (6 mg), cocaine may have increased opiate withdrawal symptoms, suggesting a possible mechanism for the reduction of illicit cocaine abuse also recently observed in another study in patients treated with high dose (120 mg) methadone maintenance. This has led to a two-component model for the relationship between cocaine and opiate withdrawal-like symptoms at high versus low opiate maintenance dose. This two-component model also reconciles the contradictory findings of prior studies."

 

[crzydiamond]

I bet the comedown from 2 weeks of coke use on top of the depression you get from opiate withdrawal is way worse than either of the two alone though.

Not at all...in fact, I was so freaking happy that morning when I woke up and realized "hey! I'm not dopesick!" ....the coke comedown sucks but I'll take a day of that anytime over even an hour of dope wd! My only drawback with this method of kicking is I don't really like doing coke anymore. Plus, it's a very pricey wd method

 

[Effuzion]

Here's the abstract from a study done on cocaine reducing opiate withdrawal from methadone and bupe.

source

Abstract:...

I don't get that study. The way it reads it sounds like they gave cocaine every week to people on bupe/methadone and measured how the coke made them feel. Or does it say they took people off the done/bupe every week just to give them cocaine and measure their withdrawal?

 

[bunge]

^
No, it was saying that less withdrawal symptoms were presented on the weeks where the patients urine tests were positive for cocaine. This would of no doubt been at an out-patient facility. I highly doubt any government in the western world would openly give a licence to a facility or doctor to prescribe a drug that is considered to have no use in modern medicine (aurthorities views, not mine.lol).

Unless of course mr scagnattie has links with the CIA or similar and is privy to studies most of us are not. :-D

 

[Effuzion]

Yeah but how did they have "less withdrawal symptoms" if they were on methadone/bupe constantly for 6 months? To actually measure the effects of cocaine on opiate withdrawal they would have had to take the people off those drugs then give them coke to measure how they feel (which would be weird, but then the study would at least make sense), otherwise they were just measuring the effects of cocaine on people who were stable on opiate replacement therapy.

 

[thelastclubkid]

Here's the abstract from a study done on cocaine reducing opiate withdrawal from methadone and bupe.

source

Abstract:

"In a 6-month randomized trial comparing 125 opiate-dependent patients who were assigned to four treatment groups (2 or 6 mg of buprenorphine and 35 or 65 mg of methadone), we examined the effects of cocaine use on opiate withdrawal symptoms measured on a 25-item scale on which the scores range from 0 to 75. For the methadone-maintained patients receiving the relatively low dose (35 mg), weekly withdrawal symptoms were highest when the urine toxicology for that week indicated no cocaine use. Similar associations were found for buprenorphine. Thus, when using cocaine at a low maintenance opiate dose, persistent opiate withdrawal symptoms were reduced, which is consistent with previous naloxone-precipitated withdrawal studies. Interestingly, with a higher dose of buprenorphine (6 mg), cocaine may have increased opiate withdrawal symptoms, suggesting a possible mechanism for the reduction of illicit cocaine abuse also recently observed in another study in patients treated with high dose (120 mg) methadone maintenance. This has led to a two-component model for the relationship between cocaine and opiate withdrawal-like symptoms at high versus low opiate maintenance dose. This two-component model also reconciles the contradictory findings of prior studies."

i just quit methadone last week after 13 years and i did use some cocaine during the WD's... it definitely helped with the dopamine release... but only in very small doses... what *didnt* help was the stim properties considering my BP was already spiked and pulse up from the WD's..

 

[bunge]

The key statement was that the patients they are talking about were on a low dose of methadone 35ml daily. This could have been because of an inability to provide consistently clean urine tests, so it was only safe to provide low doses of methadone that werent enough to completely dismiss all the symptoms. Thats all u can think of.lol good point, well made though effuzion.

 

[Effuzion]

They should just legalize drugs so we can figure this shit out for ourselves.

 

[crzydiamond]

Either way its really interesting stuff crzydiamond and im going to have a search around and see what the web can throw up. Where are all the pharmacology students when you need them?lol :-D

Thanks...I have been a long time lurker on this site but recently joined because I wanted other people's thoughts on matters like this. there is a lot of knowledge on these boards! I am not a novice in the drug world by any means, but I always seem to learn something from this site. Thanks to all
For your experiences and input

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Here's the abstract from a study done on cocaine reducing opiate withdrawal from methadone and bupe.

source

Abstract:

"In a 6-month randomized trial comparing 125 opiate-dependent patients who were assigned to four treatment groups (2 or 6 mg of buprenorphine and 35 or 65 mg of methadone), we examined the effects of cocaine use on opiate withdrawal symptoms measured on a 25-item scale on which the scores range from 0 to 75. For the methadone-maintained patients receiving the relatively low dose (35 mg), weekly withdrawal symptoms were highest when the urine toxicology for that week indicated no cocaine use. Similar associations were found for buprenorphine. Thus, when using cocaine at a low maintenance opiate dose, persistent opiate withdrawal symptoms were reduced, which is consistent with previous naloxone-precipitated withdrawal studies. Interestingly, with a higher dose of buprenorphine (6 mg), cocaine may have increased opiate withdrawal symptoms, suggesting a possible mechanism for the reduction of illicit cocaine abuse also recently observed in another study in patients treated with high dose (120 mg) methadone maintenance. This has led to a two-component model for the relationship between cocaine and opiate withdrawal-like symptoms at high versus low opiate maintenance dose. This two-component model also reconciles the contradictory findings of prior studies."

This is really interesting. Back when I had a reasonable sized heroin habit, I could get off heroin with barely any withdrawals compared to usual by using cocaine or meth. After being on methadone long-term, stimulants just make me feel worse during withdrawal.

 

[bnghit3]

almost a ball a day for two weeks is a little two rich for my blood.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

almost a ball a day for two weeks is a little two rich for my blood.

Yeah seriously.. sounds fucking expensive. Hah. I mean, then again... checking into a regular inpatient detox is super expensive anyway.. I just don't think I could get my insurance to pay for "large quantity cocaine assisted detox". Hah.

 

[Opidopecake]

Yeah but how did they have "less withdrawal symptoms" if they were on methadone/bupe constantly for 6 months? To actually measure the effects of cocaine on opiate withdrawal they would have had to take the people off those drugs then give them coke to measure how they feel (which would be weird, but then the study would at least make sense), otherwise they were just measuring the effects of cocaine on people who were stable on opiate replacement therapy.

Yeah, Thats what I read it to say, It doesn't say that they took them off of their opiate replacement therapy, so why would they experience opiate w/d if they still were on opiates, unless they are talking about the "adjustment period" when one switches from heroin or some other opiate agonist to methadone or suboxone, that can sometimes be painful, seeing as you usually have some withdrawl when switching. i do anyway... maybe that is the w/ding they are referring to. otherwise i dont understand how this study actually worked if they didn't take them off of the opiate..... do you guys agree with me? Or am i getting something wrong?

 

[macd610]

This is really interesting. Back when I had a reasonable sized heroin habit, I could get off heroin with barely any withdrawals compared to usual by using cocaine or meth. After being on methadone long-term, stimulants just make me feel worse during withdrawal.

that's the way it was with me. only stopped wd's when I started using a stimulant for the first time ever... years later, I get absolutely no relief from it. Quite the opposite now, actually.

 

[bunge]

@ opidopecake
As I sid in my earlier post, the patient that this was observed in were in the studys own words on a 'relatively low dose'. This 'low dose' could be relative to other patients doses or as the futher statements would evidence, is low relative to the patients actual habit. Lower doses of maintence treatment are sometimes used when poly-drug use is prevalent and this lower dose would leave patients with some withdrawal symptoms. It was then noted that WD was less complained off when the patients tested positive for cocaine. The other reason that a low dose was used could be because the patients were being tapered down from methadone which again would leave the patients with WD symptoms that some patients could have been treating with cocaine and to some degree at least it seems, successfully. Its not a greatly detailed study admittedly but if you read it a couple of times it does make sense.lol

 

[Mass08]

lol wouldn't it be cheaper to buy like one or two suboxones than a ball a day?! Shit man if I had that much money id keep my run going!

 

[InHerOwnWrite]

When mdpv was still readily available i could binge on that for days at a time and not need to take any heroin or bupe. It was a great feeling not to have to go cop and just stay home with the pv making crazy collages and crafts for like 18 hours straight. Must be a dopamine thing

 

[InHerOwnWrite]

When mdpv was still readily available i could binge on that for days at a time and not need to take any heroin or bupe. It was a great feeling not to have to go cop and just stay home with the pv making crazy collages and crafts for like 18 hours straight. Must be a dopamine thing

 

[Xan_Fan]

I know it's diff for everyone, but I am currently using blow as a way of lessening wd's. I have been sick for days now after banging H, oxy, and morphine every day for 2 months. I realized I was coming near the end of it but was getting harder and harder to not go score. But I realized that that would throw away the past 2 days of suffering and I'd have to start all over again. So, I went and got some decent powder.

I feel much better and no longer have wd symptoms. I just gotta be sure not to come down till sometime late tomorrow. But even if I do comedown tomorrow too soon, I still was able to glide through a whole day with no symptoms...and I'm high as hell. Totally worth it.

So, that's just me.

Be safe.

 

[Coder64]

(bumping old thread instead of starting new one)


When I first started using heroin in the mid 90's, I didnt even know about heroin withdrawls. I would do it for a week or 2, until my money or supply ran out, then I went back to doing coke. I vaguely remember feeling like a had a mild flu but that was all. Later on, without coke I felt the full wrath of heroin withdrawl.
I should add that in order for cocaine to be used to help with withdrawl you literally must have enough cocaine to stay high for 3 days. Its not alot if you use it in moderation. And yes you will feel some pain. Its unavoidable unless you have scarface quantites of coke, in which case you;d have access to tons of H as well.
The only tihng Im saying is that Ive tried everything from loperimide to kratom, and nothing has done jack for my withdrawls other than being high on coke.
Another way to do it is to wait until the rls becomes unbearable, then do a nice line, shot, whatever, then enjoy the pain free time. Its good for your sanity to get a break from the agony.