Isolating THC-V

[G_Chem]

Before I begin let me say this is strictly extraction/purification and not any synthesis related chatter...

I’m curious if it’s possible for someone to isolate THC-V from strains high in it, with either solvents and or fractional distillation? Any information or references would be great, looked but can’t find much so far. I’m willing to experiment but just need a direction.

Thanks,
-GC

 

[Thomas Davie]

Yes it’s possible. And it has been done in labs. Unless you have access to (at least) column chromatography gel and a column or a rotary thin film distillation apparatus it won’t be easy.

At the least (meaning least expensive option) a) chromatography gel, b) a chromatography column (I’ll take a shot in the dark and say a 1 metre x 2.5 cm column with a gritted glass disc/stopcock), c) pH meter, d) an organic elating solvent; methanol (100%), distilled deionized water, e) thin layer chromatography plates, f) Pasteur pipettes and a few other labby gadgets and things.

Moving up in cost would be a preparation HPLC system. Prohibitively expensive for a home system.
THC molecular weight: 314 g/mol
THCV molecular weight 286 g/mol
CBD molecular weight 314 g/mol

You could use size exclusion chromatography; but then you’re talking at least 2 different kinds of gel. As a very rough start, you could try doing a crude butane blast or C02 extraction, getting bho/oil/crude cannabinol extract. You’d then run the crude extract down a chromatography column.

it’s not something I’d approach lightly and it certainly helps to have a good chemistry background

Tom
(I’m just spinning the wheels, not actually suggesting that anyone do this. When working in a lab I caused several small fires over 4 years). 100% methanol isn’t cheap and might be restricted). You can already buy THCV, but it’s commercial use only and possibly sales access restricted. sigma Aldrich)

 

[G_Chem]

Last I checked Sigma Aldrich wasn’t too keen on average joes ordering from them. Especially what I assume is at least a grey area chemical..

Yea so rotovape is likely the only way for distillation huh? That’s not a huge issue. Looking around it seems no one is too successful in a decent isolation though.

There’s very few THCV products which tells me it ain’t easy..

My guess is itd be best to start with a strain extremely high in THCV such as Doug Varin or Pineaplle purps.

I had no luck finding those strains in any decent quantity near me so may need to find seeds and go that route.

The reason I want isolated THCV so bad is cuz I’ve had a few batches of Durban Poison where the THCV was really evident and I love that effect for certain things. Particularly saving it for live music events. I remember some DP crumble I had once that had such a stimmy nearly psychedelic effect, I feel a lot of the Durban Poison I see these days doesn’t hit like that unfortunately.

-GC

 

[Jopeth]

I love cbg. What is THCv supposed to do? Is it up the road from thc in the decarb process or its own thing?

 

[Thomas Davie]

THCV has anti anxiety properties and appetite suppressant effects; probably more but those are the ones I am familiar with.

G_Chem. You could go with a standard distillation unit. The boiling point of THCV is 428F/220C. Reason I mentioned rotary evaporation is because you can distill compounds at much lower than normal temperatures as the process is done under Vacuum, in a rotating flask and usually with a heated water bath. Apologies if you know that.

This is the unit I used at work

https://www.fishersci.ca/shop/products/hei-vap-core-rotary-evaporator-20/p-7158854#? Took about an hour to put together and the vacuum source - the water tap in the lab. In the water bath I used distilled water, but for higher boiling point compounds we could have used an industrial oil. I only distilled low boiling compounds like ethanol, methanol, petroleum ether and a few other solvents. Turn the water tap up, a stronger vacuum. Rotate the flask faster and rate of distillation increases. Processed up to 20L a day if I was doing nothing else. Our reclaim alcohol was 70-80% and that alone justified the cost of the unit because we were using 100% alcohol (which was monitored by the provincial liquor commission). 4L of 100% ethanol would cost about $100 and we’d blow through a lot in normal use. 20 smokes would require about 1L ethanol and we’d sometimes process hundreds of samples in a month.

I wish I could tell you it will be easy. If the THCV is present in large enough quantities you might be able to use a low tech non computer controlled chromatography. Purifying it w/distillation will be a $%^@&.

And DP knocked me on my ass. Cheapest, bestest way is probably bubble ice water hash if you had lots of DP.

Tom

 

[Jopeth]

interesting! the amount of potentially useful substances that cannabis is responsible for truly blows my mind. Gods plant!

 

[Mafioso]

I don't see why you couldn't use a short path distillation rig, it's going to be much cheaper than any rotary distillation and it can also be done under vacuum.

I think the hardest part is going to be sourcing product with high enough THCV. Chances are you will be spending a fair amount of time and money selecting a suitable strain.

I would start here... a lot of people have already inquired down the same path as you. There are also a lot of glass vendors and chemistry vendors on that site as well.... not to mention you can discuss other methods of achieving the same end product...

 

[Bonch]

I love cbg

i got an incredible oil that is very high in CBG, apparently there is noTHC in it but i get really really high all day when i take it. Does CBG metabolize into THC? Im clueless when it comes to organic chemistry but i think it is so interesting!!!

 

[G_Chem]

Thank you very very much Mafioso that link was exactly what I needed.

Isomerization of CBDV isolate sourced from hemp is likely the best route.

Hopefully be back with some cool new info on THCV and delta-8-THCV (which I’ve seen damn near nothing about.)

-GC

 

[G_Chem]

i got an incredible oil that is very high in CBG, apparently there is noTHC in it but i get really really high all day when i take it. Does CBG metabolize into THC? Im clueless when it comes to organic chemistry but i think it is so interesting!!!

Interesting care to give any more info? Always love to hear experiences with different cannabinoids. What percentage cannabinoids did the product supposedly contain? Any additional details on the high you get?

-GC

 

[Mafioso]

i got an incredible oil that is very high in CBG, apparently there is noTHC in it but i get really really high all day when i take it. Does CBG metabolize into THC? Im clueless when it comes to organic chemistry but i think it is so interesting!!!

CBG is the "mother cannabinoid" that the plant used to biosynthesize the majority of the cannabinoids(not cbdv/thcv). It doesn't metabolize into THC, but I think it is possible it can isomerize into a form of THC under the presence of heat and acidic terpenes/conditions, similar to how CBD can isomerize to d8THC.

Afaik, the pharmokinetics of CBG are not fully understood-but that is rapidly changing if it hasn't already. Just from the little bit in the wiki article, it seems possible CBG can produce noticeable effects but appears to be quite different than that of THC. It is possible what you consumed wasn't truly CBG or isn't truly THC free- but that is just speculation on my part.
"Contrary to the major psychoactive cannabinoid THC, cannabigerol antagonizes CB1 receptors and is both an alpha2-adrenoceptor agonist and moderate 5HT1A receptor antagonist.[7][9] Cannabigerol displays CB1 and CB2 binding affinity.[7][8] "

Thank you very very much Mafioso that link was exactly what I needed.

Isomerization of CBDV isolate sourced from hemp is likely the best route.

Hopefully be back with some cool new info on THCV and delta-8-THCV (which I’ve seen damn near nothing about.)

-GC

That seemed to be the best route that I've heard about in today's climate. Hemp sourced cannabinoids ftw. I'll be interested to hear about your experience. There is a lot of interesting research going on about THCV and insulin sensitivity.

 

[phenethylo J]

i got an incredible oil that is very high in CBG, apparently there is noTHC in it but i get really really high all day when i take it. Does CBG metabolize into THC? Im clueless when it comes to organic chemistry but i think it is so interesting!!!

I find oils with no cbd but 2-8% cbg and thc in the 80-90s worked really good. Had some really nice green crack rosin with 81.5% thca 6.1% THC, 7.3% cbg, and 0.6 thcv. I've had pretty good results with other strains that have similar rariots. I find cbg doesn't kill the euphoria as much and as cbd.

 

[G_Chem]

^^^Interesting you say that. I too am not a big fan of Cbd high strains. I like about 1-2% Cbd at most (in flower) otherwise it starts to kill the high for me. I’ll have to seek out some CBG high products.

-GC

 

[Bonch]

Interesting care to give any more info? Always love to hear experiences with different cannabinoids. What percentage cannabinoids did the product supposedly contain? Any additional details on the high you get?

Sorry for the late reason!
I don’t know much about it and haven’t seen any lab results but I got a small sample of it with a shipment from a CBD company. Anyway it the most incredible cannabis product Ive ever had! Its actually quite spiritual and I find myself crying on it cause Im just so unbelievably happy!
I don’t get burned out after like I do when smoking. Almost zero paranoia and negative thoughts. Still gives you blood shot eyes. I take about 10 drops and can feel it most of the day!

 

[sekio]

distillation will not be accurate enough to seperate individual cannabinoids completely at the high vaccum needed to avoid decomposition (low distillation pressure = lower boiling points = less boiling point difference between different volatiles)

I think commercially the best way to seperate individual cannabinoids is chromatography on silica or alumina, you can adjust the solvent mixture easily to facilitate whatever seperation you need