Islam and my relationship with drugs

[Neuroprotection]

someone asked me about this awhile back as they wanted to know how my faith affects my drug use, so here goes. Islam is very clear in prohibiting alcohol, and according to most scholars all intoxicants. This is because of the use of the word Kamma in the Koran. many people mistakenly believe this word only means wine/Alcohol but in the Arabic language, it actually means anything that covers/Obscures other things in reference to how alcohol affects the mind/judgement. I follow this opinion and abstain from all intoxicants. by intoxicants, I mean anything which is capable of altering consciousness and judgement to the point where one can act irrationally, Lose control and lose basic logic/reasoning/intellect. A second factor affecting drug use in Islam is The “harm principle“. this means Muslims are prohibited from taking any action which causes harm to themselves or others. it’s pretty simple at first glance, dangerous drugs like methamphetamine, heroin and GABAA acting sedatives are strictly prohibited unless considered necessary or very helpful by a trustworthy doctor. this is because they are extremely harmful in many cases though this is complicated by the fact that some of these drugs, particularly strong amphetamines and certainly the sedative-hypnotics fall into the category of intoxicants, Making them strictly prohibited for recreational use.
However, I love psychoactive substances but I have few options and they are kind of a Grey area. i’m not really interested in intoxicants, but I’m a big fan of euphoriants and stimulants. this is reflected by my heavy use of caffeine and whenever I get the chance, of nicotine which I get through abusing replacement products. of course, the harm principle is the key issue here and it is based on this that most scholars also prohibit not only smoking, but all forms of tobacco. whilst throughout history, islamic scholars have been quite reasonable in passing rulings, taking their time and collecting evidence, nowadays low-level imams and even Muslim Lehman are passing judgement as if they are High ranking scholars. furthermore, scholars in countries like Saudi Arabia don’t seem to research modern drug-related matters directly, but instead listen to advisors Who could be manipulating the information they get. for example, I’ve seen Muslims writing that nicotine is clearly an intoxicant and we all know that’s not true. I doubt they knew what an intoxicant even is, and I think many Muslims assume an intoxicant is just any drug with recreational potential. if we are to prohibit all drugs based on the harm principle, this still presents major problems. for example, what exactly is meant by harm? many scholars say that a substance is considered harmful if, either a significant number of trusted medical professionals warn against it with reliable evidence or it is generally known that the use of the substance will inevitably lead to Harm. unfortunately, whilst I like this logical principle, scholars still haven’t specified what exactly is considered harm. furthermore, I wonder if the ruling on a drug could change based on new scientific developments. For example, if a cure for opioid withdrawal was discovered or new analogues were produced which lack respiratory depression and sedation, but still keep the highly euphoric effect. unfortunately, many Muslims would immediately say these drugs are prohibited, especially some of the reactionary modern scholars, as they seem to consider even slight mood elevation as intoxication. this is clear by the fact that The potentially highly addictive nature of sugar and fat mixture in processed food and the countless well-known harms they inflict are quietly ignored in the Muslim world. many reactionary scholars are overweight themselves and whilst they do worn against overeating, they don’t consider processed food to be completely prohibited (Haram). on the other hand, I’ve read that they consider chewing tobacco to be completely Haram and I doubt they will change their opinion, even if you told them about Swedish Snuss which is reportedly very low in carcinogens.

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

, it actually means anything that covers/Obscures other things in reference to how alcohol affects the mind/judgement

As a famous Aghori said "Do you drink the drink OR does the drink drink you?"

I mean anything which is capable of altering consciousness and judgement to the point where one can act irrationally, Lose control and lose basic logic/reasoning/intellect.

What the Hell are you taking? You huffing Model Airplane Glue or something?

are strictly prohibited unless considered necessary or very helpful by a trustworthy doctor

Because doctors are above "God" folks


This whole Thread shows how Blind some are to what "God" is, as I've said a billion times if this person smoked a single good dose of N,N DMT their view of "God" would be something else all together.

 

[Neuroprotection]

As a famous Aghori said "Do you drink the drink OR does the drink drink you?"

What the Hell are you taking? You huffing Model Airplane Glue or something?

Because doctors are above "God" folks


This whole Thread shows how Blind some are to what "God" is, as I've said a billion times if this person smoked a single good dose of N,N DMT their view of "God" would be something else all together.

With all due respect, I assume you don’t believe in God, or at least not in the monotheistic sense in the way that the Abrahamic faiths View God. please correct me if I’m wrong though. in regards to Islam, we follow an objective morality, that is, we believe that certain rules are legislated by God and we must follow them whether we like it or not unless exceptional circumstances arise. for example, alcohol is strictly prohibited, but if someone forced you to drink it, you needed it to prevent ethylene glycol or methanol poisoning or you fear withdrawal symptoms could be fatal then the need to preserve life takes priority and overrides the prohibition. in the same way, killing a person is generally evil by the standards of most religions and societies, yet most people would not consider it to be so if it was done in self defence or to protect one’s family from a violent attacker.
Don’t get me wrong, I fully understand why you might see religious rules regarding drugs as oppressive or ridiculous. as a practising Muslim, I have a love hate relationship with certain Islamic rules, especially those around pleasures like intoxication and masturbation. of course, I regularly wish those rules weren’t there and if that was the case, I’d definitely be either drinking a lot or doing other intoxicant drugs. at the same time, I know that if I had been allowed to do that it would’ve been a very slippery slope and given my extreme emotional instability and immaturity, only God knows what would’ve happened to me.
Nevertheless, I still love drugs so that’s why I’m searching for those which won’t cloud a persons judgement.

 

[Brendan12]

Allah trumps The Qaran!

Ask God what his word is directly and wait for a sign.

Ask Allah if it's ok to take drugs.. how much and what!

 

[Neuroprotection]

Allah trumps The Qaran!

Ask God what his word is directly and wait for a sign.

Ask Allah if it's ok to take drugs.. how much and what!

I assume you were joking there, but sorry if I’m wrong. islamic theology actually leaves quite a lot of room for discussion, debates and different opinions aside from the things we believed to be clearly revealed by Allah. as I’ve said before, intoxicants in all quantities are clearly prohibited, intoxicants are defined as substances which typically induce irrational behaviour or cause one to become unaware of their surroundings. however, drugs like nicotine, caffeine and perhaps some other stimulants are strongly discouraged because of the harm they can cause but it cannot be said that they are intoxicants. my dream is to have Islamic scholars more informed on new drug developments and for more Muslims and non-Muslims alike to be involved in the science of pursuing nonintoxicating (nonjudgement impairing), highly pleasurable and maybe even useful drugs. because the islamic principle of avoiding harm is a major driver behind drug prohibition, I am wondering if things like state regulation and legalisation of certain opioids to prevent crime, removal of carcinogens from tobacco or creation of a safe tobacco alternative etc could change the scholars current rulings on these things.

 

[Neuroprotection]

since I’ve never done illegal drugs or alcohol, I have a comparison question for you all. is being high on opioids intoxicating in the manner prohibited by Islam? that is, does the opioid high typically cause you to behave strangely and do things you wouldn’t normally do if sober? i’m not talking about addiction related phenomena like stealing from family members, but rather one’s behaviour wen under the influence of opioids. The reason I ask is because unlike alcohol and cannabis Who’s use generally remained largely medical, opium actually enjoyed widespread use in parts of several Islamic empires and it wasn’t really looked down upon.

 

[Brendan12]

Well I basically agree with you about intoxicants..

The literature I think is outdated..

For me. I have two Karans..and I like the word Allah for God..

I do believe in drug reform..in any country or any religion..

My opinion is if you aren't harming other people than its OK.

Btw I was incarnated as The prophet Muhammad. So I have some residual authority over things and discussing Islam.

 

[Neuroprotection]

Well I basically agree with you about intoxicants..

The literature I think is outdated..

For me. I have two Karans..and I like the word Allah for God..

I do believe in drug reform..in any country or any religion..

My opinion is if you aren't harming other people than its OK.

Btw I was incarnated as The prophet Muhammad. So I have some residual authority over things and discussing Islam.

Thanks for that. i’d have to disagree about your reincarnation, but your opinion about not harming others is interesting. traditionally, not harming others is a major part of Islam, but it’s equally important not to harm oneself either. furthermore, certain things are prohibited by Allah almighty even if they don’t necessarily cause Direct harm. I think scholars sometimes miss a very important point and only Twelver Shia scholar/literature do a good job of explaining it. ask most scholars why intoxicants are prohibited, and they’ll tell you, they can either disrupt prayer or they lead to hatred or misconduct between people or lead to accidents. all these can be true and are alluded to in the Koran. however, all of these can be minimised/ prevented and most people enjoy intoxicants without this happening. One could argue that anything can be dangerous if used wrongly. However, the deeper overarching reason why intoxicants are prohibited is because they alter consciousness to a degree where Allah almighty is unlikely to be remembered and Satan takes over the person. where I am ethnically from, the Middle East, it is well known that extramarital affairs and many other things considered immoral/ prohibited start under the influence of alcohol or other intoxicants and then continue on afterwards. furthermore, we’re always supposed to be aware of Allah SWT and be spiritually prepared for death at all times, but under intoxication, this is not likely to be the case. I know you agree with me on intoxicants, but I’m also trying to explain this to others Who use the no harming others principle.
Another example, where potentially much less harm is involved is masturbation or sex/sexual contact outside marriage. scholars generally refer to the societal harms these can cause, but it is true that one could use contraception and many people engage in it without any perceived problems. however, this doesn’t make them allowed as we are expected to follow the laws of Allah SWT

 

[Brendan12]

Just to quickly respond about prayer and psychoactive substances..

Me deepest meditations and prayers were on medium doses of DXM..

Also shrooms taught me the power of magic and energy work.

 

[Foreigner]

I've practiced several religions in my lifetime to date. (Islam was not one of them.) And I mean really practiced them, I made them my world view and I conducted myself accordingly, for years. I didn't just read a book and say, "Ah, interesting." I did the work and I actually believed in the faith.

I faced the same problem each time. Eventually, the truth of God bumped up against the doctrine of the religion. I was then faced with the choice of having to create a religious barrier against the apparent truth, or let go of the religious barrier and let God be free. And I had to judge, each time, which route to take very carefully, because sometimes "letting go" is a trick to lead you into temptation. Other times, letting go of a rule is an act of virtue. It's a delicate balance between control and liberation.

The world really loves the debate of atheism vs. theism. What we don't talk about enough is religion vs. God. People within religions don't ever get to openly talk about how maybe their religion is sometimes wrong about God, mostly because 95% of followers are rote followers who don't actually introspect about it. They just do what they're told. And when I say "wrong," I don't mean wrong from the stupid atheist view, but wrong from a highly informed, devout, insider view from within that religion.

Religion puts God in a box and if you happen to have a different experience/relationship with God than your religion allows, you are faced with a terrible choice.

I think if drugs are enhancing your relationship with Allah, and it's true and not a trick, then that is between you and Allah. I think the way you are trying to justify it through Islam is 100% incorrect. The Quran is the word of Allah. You can't read it and say, "They meant no drugs because it causes extramarital affairs and Satanic behaviours." Drugs are haram, period. They are always bad, according to the good book.

What you are trying to say is that your experience is the exception, but according to the Quran that cannot be true. So, like what happened to me, you are having to face a choice between the truth of your relationship with Allah or suppressing it in favour of what conventional Islamic wisdom says about your choices.

 

[burn out]

since I’ve never done illegal drugs or alcohol, I have a comparison question for you all. is being high on opioids intoxicating in the manner prohibited by Islam? that is, does the opioid high typically cause you to behave strangely and do things you wouldn’t normally do if sober? i’m not talking about addiction related phenomena like stealing from family members, but rather one’s behaviour wen under the influence of opioids. The reason I ask is because unlike alcohol and cannabis Who’s use generally remained largely medical, opium actually enjoyed widespread use in parts of several Islamic empires and it wasn’t really looked down upon.

Opioids can definitely cause people to do things they wouldn't normally do sober. In general, I'd say a regular opium user would retain more control over their mental faculties than a user of cannabis or alcohol and the effects of opium itself are actually quite a bit different from "opioids" (like hydrocodone, heroin, morphine, etc) but all are potentially intoxicating.

If you're looking for substances that alter your mind but without being intoxicating in this way similar to caffeine, I recommend looking into the world of herbs. Off the top of my head I can provide a few suggestions:

- low doses of kratom

- ceremonial cacao (if chocolate is allowed in Islam than cacao has to be as well, since it's just chocolate in its natural form)

- coca leaves

- kava (not quite sure about this one as it can produce a state of intoxication, but the user's mind and judgement tend to remain remarkably clear with it)

- ginko biloba

- ginseng

 

[Neuroprotection]

Opioids can definitely cause people to do things they wouldn't normally do sober. In general, I'd say a regular opium user would retain more control over their mental faculties than a user of cannabis or alcohol and the effects of opium itself are actually quite a bit different from "opioids" (like hydrocodone, heroin, morphine, etc) but all are potentially intoxicating.

If you're looking for substances that alter your mind but without being intoxicating in this way similar to caffeine, I recommend looking into the world of herbs. Off the top of my head I can provide a few suggestions:

- low doses of kratom

- ceremonial cacao (if chocolate is allowed in Islam than cacao has to be as well, since it's just chocolate in its natural form)

- coca leaves

- kava (not quite sure about this one as it can produce a state of intoxication, but the user's mind and judgement tend to remain remarkably clear with it)

- ginko biloba

- ginseng

Thank you for that. Yes, I assume kava and all the other herbs you mention should be allowed as they don’t lead to someone losing their senses and judgements. was just curious about opioids. Do you mind describing their intoxicating qualities in comparison to cannabis or alcohol? The reason I ask is because if it is the case that opioids just makes someone more extroverted via their euphoric affect, they might not actually come under the term intoxicant. however, if like alcohol they can make you act drunk and do things you don’t remember and regret when waking up, then they would be clearly prohibited.
Strangely, as a Muslim interested in drugs, i’m not really into intoxicants though I have not tried the main ones before. I did however, abuse butane lighter gas as well as butane from spray cans very frequently as a child and teenager. it was more out of boredom, and whilst I found it a little fun and euphoric, I actually hated the sense of anaesthesia, loss of control and sedation it gave me. however, when I tried my favourite drug nicotine a few years later, I got the euphoria without intoxication, and I absolutely loved it. thank you for your suggestions, these herbs have a long history of medical use and should be a good match for my personality. since I’m very happy to follow abstinence from intoxicants, my main problem with mainstream Islamic scholars and Lehman alike, is there automatic dismissal of any psychoactive compound as being intoxicant when that’s clearly not the case. I heard one scholar giving a ruling on tobacco and he stated the following: if tobacco is strong smelling but not intoxicating then it is religiously disliked, but not prohibited. If it is intoxicating, then it is prohibited. then he said both forms of tobacco are prohibited if they are used in a manner clearly harmful to health like smoking. The scholar made a small mistake in terms of words, but with huge implications. I don’t know what he meant by intoxicating tobacco. If he meant cannabis, someone should point this out to him. If he actually meant intoxicating tobacco, then that doesn’t exist and he needs to be educated.

 

[Frog Dreams]

This is an amazing thread.
Thank you to @Neuroprotection for creating it.

I've consumed recreational drugs and drank alcohol with Islamic people. From my (limited) experience, they came across like normal kids with an abnormal amount of fear/shame. That is the sole difference I detected.

I care more about people alive today than I do about Muhammad. Nobody should feel shame because of something someone said centuries ago.

It seems to me, reading what you've written here, that you have to stress about words because you want to find a way around them... but - clearly - the most obvious way around them is to remove their power over you.

The semantics of religion is the best indication (for me) that religion is imperfect.

All this talk about what "intoxicant" means. Scholars say this. Scholars say that... Honestly, why do you care?

Muhammad was a man.

Just be free.

Renounce.

You know you want to.

You are Muhammad.

...

I apologize for any offence I may have caused. That is not my intention, at all. I am critical of Islam (not Islamic people) because I care about Islamic people.

Bufo is king.

 

[burn out]

Thank you for that. Yes, I assume kava and all the other herbs you mention should be allowed as they don’t lead to someone losing their senses and judgements. was just curious about opioids. Do you mind describing their intoxicating qualities in comparison to cannabis or alcohol? The reason I ask is because if it is the case that opioids just makes someone more extroverted via their euphoric affect, they might not actually come under the term intoxicant. however, if like alcohol they can make you act drunk and do things you don’t remember and regret when waking up, then they would be clearly prohibited.
Strangely, as a Muslim interested in drugs, i’m not really into intoxicants though I have not tried the main ones before. I did however, abuse butane lighter gas as well as butane from spray cans very frequently as a child and teenager. it was more out of boredom, and whilst I found it a little fun and euphoric, I actually hated the sense of anaesthesia, loss of control and sedation it gave me. however, when I tried my favourite drug nicotine a few years later, I got the euphoria without intoxication, and I absolutely loved it. thank you for your suggestions, these herbs have a long history of medical use and should be a good match for my personality. since I’m very happy to follow abstinence from intoxicants, my main problem with mainstream Islamic scholars and Lehman alike, is there automatic dismissal of any psychoactive compound as being intoxicant when that’s clearly not the case. I heard one scholar giving a ruling on tobacco and he stated the following: if tobacco is strong smelling but not intoxicating then it is religiously disliked, but not prohibited. If it is intoxicating, then it is prohibited. then he said both forms of tobacco are prohibited if they are used in a manner clearly harmful to health like smoking. The scholar made a small mistake in terms of words, but with huge implications. I don’t know what he meant by intoxicating tobacco. If he meant cannabis, someone should point this out to him. If he actually meant intoxicating tobacco, then that doesn’t exist and he needs to be educated.

Opiates don't typically cause you to not remember your actions while under the influence, but they can certainly make you do things you regret the next day.

 

[burn out]

This is an amazing thread.
Thank you to @Neuroprotection for creating it.

I've consumed recreational drugs and drank alcohol with Islamic people. From my (limited) experience, they came across like normal kids with an abnormal amount of fear/shame. That is the sole difference I detected.

I care more about people alive today than I do about Muhammad. Nobody should feel shame because of something someone said centuries ago.

It seems to me, reading what you've written here, that you have to stress about words because you want to find a way around them... but - clearly - the most obvious way around them is to remove their power over you.

The semantics of religion is the best indication (for me) that religion is imperfect.

All this talk about what "intoxicant" means. Scholars say this. Scholars say that... Honestly, why do you care?

Muhammad was a man.

Just be free.

Renounce.

You know you want to.

You are Muhammad.

...

I apologize for any offence I may have caused. That is not my intention, at all. I am critical of Islam (not Islamic people) because I care about Islamic people.

Bufo is king.

I understand and agree with the points you are making except your statement that no one should feel shame about something someone said centuries ago. That is an odd claim. Exactly what is the timeframe where it is ok to feel shame about something someone said and why is there an expiration date? If I read the words of a great philosopher who lived long ago and they convict me and cause me to realize one of my faults and I feel shame, who are you to tell me I shouldn't feel that simply because a lot of time had elapsed since he uttered those words?

anyway, in regard to your points like I said I do agree but I want to point out the counter position which is that those religious rules are put in place to help guide the people who follow that religion and of course that type of guidance can't be perfect and will result in debates and questions over the meanings of words but does that really mean one should throw it all away?

When I was young that's what I did and for me it resulted in multiple serious drug addictions. Arguably I would have had a much better outcome had I valued the wisdom of religious scholars and followed their guidance. In fact most people, come up with some sort of set of rules for which drugs they will experiment with even if they don't make use of religion as a guiding principle. Of course every rule set is imperfect and some of them are quite stupid but there is a positive side to them in the sense that most people need some sort of guide to follow.

 

[Neuroprotection]

This is an amazing thread.
Thank you to @Neuroprotection for creating it.

I've consumed recreational drugs and drank alcohol with Islamic people. From my (limited) experience, they came across like normal kids with an abnormal amount of fear/shame. That is the sole difference I detected.

I care more about people alive today than I do about Muhammad. Nobody should feel shame because of something someone said centuries ago.

It seems to me, reading what you've written here, that you have to stress about words because you want to find a way around them... but - clearly - the most obvious way around them is to remove their power over you.

The semantics of religion is the best indication (for me) that religion is imperfect.

All this talk about what "intoxicant" means. Scholars say this. Scholars say that... Honestly, why do you care?

Muhammad was a man.

Just be free.

Renounce.

You know you want to.

You are Muhammad.

...

I apologize for any offence I may have caused. That is not my intention, at all. I am critical of Islam (not Islamic people) because I care about Islamic people.

Bufo is king.

No worries, you didn’t cause any offence. actually, being critical and questioning in a strong but respectful manner is something a Muslim should welcome. thank you also for appreciating my thread. to address your point about islamic rules, I don’t actually find them restrictive in a bad way and the ruling on intoxicants being prohibited is not my problem. although it may appear that way, I’m not actually trying to dance around this prohibition, rather I am using my intellect, which I believe God has given to me in order to explore what is allowed and to ensure nothing is unfairly prohibited. actually, wrongly prohibiting anything in Islam, if done carelessly or intentionally is an incredibly major sin. let me give you an example, unrelated to drugs. this is a bit personal, but sexually, I wish to be dominated by a woman I’m attracted to by letting her trample me and smother me with her bare feet, and letting her spit in my face. when I explained my desires on an Islamic forum where they were discussing marital sex, saying that I wanted my future wife to treat me like this, they told me my desires are from the devil and some tried to say I’m not a Muslim. The problem therefore wasn’t with Islam, but with poorly educated individuals acting like scholars.

 

[Neuroprotection]

I understand and agree with the points you are making except your statement that no one should feel shame about something someone said centuries ago. That is an odd claim. Exactly what is the timeframe where it is ok to feel shame about something someone said and why is there an expiration date? If I read the words of a great philosopher who lived long ago and they convict me and cause me to realize one of my faults and I feel shame, who are you to tell me I shouldn't feel that simply because a lot of time had elapsed since he uttered those words?

anyway, in regard to your points like I said I do agree but I want to point out the counter position which is that those religious rules are put in place to help guide the people who follow that religion and of course that type of guidance can't be perfect and will result in debates and questions over the meanings of words but does that really mean one should throw it all away?

When I was young that's what I did and for me it resulted in multiple serious drug addictions. Arguably I would have had a much better outcome had I valued the wisdom of religious scholars and followed their guidance. In fact most people, come up with some sort of set of rules for which drugs they will experiment with even if they don't make use of religion as a guiding principle. Of course every rule set is imperfect and some of them are quite stupid but there is a positive side to them in the sense that most people need some sort of guide to follow.

Thank you for that wonderful and very thoughtful reply. actually, in my teenage years I went through a phase where I hated Islam and I rebelled against all the rules. if I had access to alcohol then, I definitely would’ve drank it without hesitation or shame. The problem was, at that time, I was actually extremely depressed and sad no matter what I did. it was only coming back to Islam that gave me something to live for and lifted my depression. your point about religious rules being both repressive and protective at the same time is so true. I know for a fact, alcohol would’ve ruined my life and I don’t think cannabis would’ve done much better for me. i’m very emotionally unstable so staying away from powerful mind altering drugs is probably a good thing. I think what help me to truly benefit from Islam and the same probably goes for others with different religions, is spending some time reflecting on what we actually are allowed to do.

 

[Neuroprotection]

Opiates don't typically cause you to not remember your actions while under the influence, but they can certainly make you do things you regret the next day.

Sorry to pester you, but could you elaborate on that. Do people do things they regret because of overwhelming euphoria and increased confidence, or is it that judgement is actually impaired to a degree where acting out of character is perceived to be normal whilst under the influence.

 

[Brendan12]

Sorry I just can't divorce the idea that there are no sacraments in religion..

 

[burn out]

Sorry to pester you, but could you elaborate on that. Do people do things they regret because of overwhelming euphoria and increased confidence, or is it that judgement is actually impaired to a degree where acting out of character is perceived to be normal whilst under the influence.

It's different for different people and dose dependent as well. High doses can definitely impair judgement but I don't know how normal it is perceived to be. Also high doses tend to make people sleepy so they are less active compared to other drug that impair judgement.