Is This the World's Deadliest Pill?

[ro4eva]

I think the term "drug abuse" or "misuse" is applied way too readily, much too liberally, to any form of psychotropic substance use not sanctioned by "experts" (many of which have a background education solely in law enforcement). Ridiculous is what that is.

Many times, documented 'evidence' of the pharmacological properties of a psychotropic substance is based on theory (and not actual concrete evidence - e.g. "it is thought to affect the following areas of the brain...")

Considering how differently we are wired, how little we still know about how the human brain functions, don't you think it's just a little arrogant on the part of the government for them to set limits on dosages based on assumptions about you? Yes, it is better to be safe than sorry. And it is worth noting that some of the older common recreational drugs have been around long enough that ample time has passed for the long term effects of these drugs to be studied extensively. Still though, I think the system is flawed because too much emphasis has been placed on morality, not to mention the hidden agenda politics behind the initial prohibition of such drugs.

 

[Flynnal]

IStill though, I think the system is flawed because too much emphasis has been placed on morality, not to mention the hidden agenda politics behind the initial prohibition of such drugs.

Sorry dude, what do you mean by emphasis on morality? If you're in the USA then your government legalized abortion on demand throughout the first 6 months of pregnancy, funded many needless and unjust wars, endorsed routine infant male genital mutilation, amongst many other morally repulsive things, and you're telling me that the drug war is about morality? WTF? Seriously, you need professional help if you really believe that it's about morality. I think you're on to something with the latter part of your statement about there being a hidden agenda, because that is so much more appropriate to this issue. It IS about a hidden agenda, no two ways about it. The question is, WHAT is that agenda?

 

[ro4eva]

Sorry dude, what do you mean by emphasis on morality?

Seriously?

Morality? Good? Bad? "Drugs are bad, mmmkay?"

Don't tell me you haven't come across your fair share of family members, friends, acquaintances, or strangers who began to treat you differently (worse) once they found out that you use <insert illicit psychotropic substance here>. Former drinking buddies who (e.g.) began to judge you because they found out you also smoke pot.

If it's illegal, then the person using it - in many people's eyes - is a a lowlife criminal. And criminals are bad! Usually, to these people, addiction isn't a disease either, but a (very wrong) choice.

This way of thinking has been drilled into the heads of countless Americans from a young age, and for all the wrong reasons.

If you're in the USA then your government legalized abortion on demand throughout the first 6 months of pregnancy, funded many needless and unjust wars, endorsed routine infant male genital mutilation, amongst many other morally repulsive things, and you're telling me that the drug war is about morality? WTF? Seriously, you need professional help if you really believe that it's about morality.

First off, I do not live in the US of A (I used to however long ago). And although I'd rather not go into detail because I know that I WILL be kicking a hornet's nest, a great deal of the US government's policies disgust me. On the other hand, I'd like to point out that ordinary Americans can be some of the nicest, coolest people you'll ever meet. Especially my Yankee BLers. They all qualify for free passes into my opium den, should they come visit.

Secondly, suggesting that I am a mentally challenged individual for debating a topic and stating my opinion hurts my feelings (well not really - but it's not necessary). You can get your point across without resorting to name-calling.

I think you're on to something with the latter part of your statement about there being a hidden agenda, because that is so much more appropriate to this issue. It IS about a hidden agenda, no two ways about it. The question is, WHAT is that agenda?

Well, the hidden agenda (in relation to drug policy) has changed over the past century or so. What has remained the same is that it has never been about health issues.

Our drug policy is based on draconian, racist, religious and capitalistic ideologies - none of which should even remotely play a key role in the decision of something which is clearly a health issue.

Through racism, in combination with politics (and not health concerns), certain psychotropic drugs were initially made illegal in America close to a century ago. Harry Anslinger, saw to that when he rallied Caucasian voters to outlaw specific psychotropic substances which were popular among minority groups such as "Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos, and entertainers."

Through religion in combination with politics (and again, not health concerns), the 18th Amendment of the United States Constitution brought alcohol prohibition to America, until the 21st Amendment repealed the 18th. Once again, this decision was not due to health concerns (or in this case, benefits if you will), but rather an enormous rise in violent crimes throughout the nation.

Health concerns also didn't play a role in Richard Nixon's decision to declare war on drugs. IMO, "the crook" was an especially greedy republican and capitalist who misused the issue of drug addiction as a tool for garnishing as many votes as possible.

 

[TheRapperGoneBad]

My girl used to be prescribed hydrocodone concerta xanax and stuff for being bi polar at the same time. Doc even raised the xanny dose.
Ive never been a fan of benzos as they cause me to black out even at low doses but I have three friends in mind who eat them like skittles. Two had them presribed and one took them from his gma all of them were extremely addicted.

 

[juno nightmare]

I hate the slang K-pins for clonazepam. Its a great benzo tho. Never did me wrong.

 

[drug_mentor]

This article is so sensationalist it is crazy, I can't even be bothered ripping through the million holes. I really wish lazy journalists would stop taking the easy route of making these scare pieces and would realise that this tripe actually does have an impact on people who suffer legitimate medical conditions access to medications that are immensely helpful when used correctly.

 

[choco1ate]

benzos are obviosly part of a nefarious plot by the pharma-psychiatry complex. was this article even necessary?

 

[psood0nym]

These stupid articles are more harmful than any drug. How many people will be denied adequate anxiety relief because of the demonization of benzodiazepines?

I actually thought it was pretty good. Profit-driven overtreatment is probably the largest realistically addressable systemic issue in U.S. health care. I think fleshing out that issue through the example of problems associated with benzodiazapines is the real intent of the article, rather than to demonize the drugs themselves. Its rhetorical flourishes make it overstated in parts, but it does allude to statistics and under-exposed disclosures (e.g. the industry ghost writing of top academic articles) to support most of its explicit claims. I don't find what it's saying difficult to swallow. I mean, the explosion of diagnoses of psychological disorders is bizarre if it's not mostly the work of a deceptive and successful marketing campaign. How many people's anxiety is really so crippling and intractable that the best option is a course of treatment that involves daily psychopharmacological manipulation leading directly to physical dependence on narrowly understood drugs that are linked to so many ADDITIONAL problems?

source

The article this graph is from notes that the most commonly used prescription drugs in the U.S. include "central nervous system stimulants for adolescents, antidepressants for middle-aged adults," both psychiatric categories. Read the wiki page on antidepressant efficacy for an indication of how little benefit those have. Of course, we're talking about benzos, but I bring this up just show how easy it is to illustrate my contention that there's a ludicrous amount of overtreatment involving psychiatric drugs. I'm not surprised so many people think they need benzos to deal with anxiety either, since, after they take them for awhile, not taking them makes them feel worse then they ever felt before they had touched them. The drugs make a substantial difference for many at the beginning, sure, but then desensitization occurs and people are left nearly in the same spot, except now they're in a dependency cycle that's become their new normal and the idea of getting out of that is frightening.

Outside of institutions and special education programs, I'm skeptical that there are nearly so many people as who are prescribed or seek them who truly benefit in the long run from daily use of any current strongly psychoactive drugs. This is simply because, as the article alludes to, neurochemistry is profoundly complex, subtle, and particular in action, whereas psychiatric drugs are crude tools with largely mysterious generalized effects. The fact that such drugs are prescribed daily (the term for using street drugs at the dosages many are prescribed in this way is "chronic abuse," heh) means whatever unintended interference with natural neural processing they are causing is artificially maintained semi-permanently. Most psychological issues experienced by generally functional individuals naturally run their course eventually. Any drug that maintains an unnatural balance may very well interfere with the, albeit painful, cultivation of ultimately more effective personal coping strategies and other healthier means of regaining control of one's life. Presumably this is how things worked before the pharmaceutical industry, medical professionals, and academia formed a parasitic economic symbiosis that functions to deceive people into believing they suffer crippling conditions that can only be treated by lifelong use of expensive drugs.

Limited-regimen or single-dose treatments such as those used in MDMA or psychedelic therapies are where psychiatry for the masses makes far more sense (in addition to DAILY. EXERCISE. ... seriously.). These drug treatments produce ongoing benefits by virtue of perspective changes rather than by blindly forcing interminable neurophysiological imbalances in the absence of deeper personal understanding. There's not nearly so much money in this approach though.

 

[ro4eva]

These articles definitely have a negative effect on the proper treatment and care of patients who would benefit from a controlled substance.

That being said, I doubt benzodiazepines are going anywhere soon as they are on the WHO's list of essential medications. They can be a lifesaver in certain situations (or at least it sure as hell feels that way).

 

[DavisK4high247]

I used to be prescribed a lot of clonazepam 12mg per day for panic attacks,anxiety,etc..and before that Xanax. Xanax was much better in helping and was quicker in effect(I think anyway) and wore off a bit faster. Doctors also had me on Oxycontin, Methadone, etc. for a few years and then were all upset that I became addicted to those pills and made a big deal about it and so on..bunch of bullshit really, they put me on that, I never asked and then later when others were coming up dead from OD's and shit, then they decided it was bad for me and cut me off..Same thing when I had to go to a new shrink who told me I did not need any benzo's ( fresh out of med school asshole contradiced himself in his assesments of me, I called him out on it and he got mad..lol) Anyway I told him he was an asshole who needed to get his head out of the bullshit the med school assholes told him, who by the way only "practice medicine" from the confines of academia and books and theorys, not real life where their theories can and do get people killed!!!

 

['medicine cabinet']

I sure as hell have ordered lots of various benzos online but i sure as shit didnt pull up google and type in wher to get benzos and ohh look, they take credit card lol. There was a time when i knew of like two sites that would take credit cards but now dont. Its now all digital money transfer. They oversensationalize this stuff to the point even doctors who know better hide their rx pad and dea number in their ass for fear of federal reprisal and condemnation from fellow medical professionals. No doc wants to be known as dr feelgood. There are plenty still out there, but all this is doing is fucking over ppl who truly need the drug. Totally backwards as usual. Im still for building and island somewhere...

 

[ro4eva]

I've run across my share of doctors who would rather you suffered instead of prescribing appropriate medication if it was a controlled substance. Felt like choking some of them into submission. Assholes.

 

[dopemegently]

Typical media tactics; compare a benzodiazepene with pottassium fucking chloride - the shit they use to kill condemned people with. How do they compare, exactly? Gutter tabloid press: the lowest form of life. (Beneath tapeworms, even).

Yes benzo's are very addictive, this is not news to anybody not residing on the moon. The key thing here is caution; respect the damn things - they're a valuable drug group with enormous therapeutic value..if used correctly. I have anxiety - my photography class was a nightmare to me; I hate having my picture taken, and I have problems with large groups of people. A benzo would take that fear away, allowing me to function normally.

 

[RTrain]

Quoted from the article: "Scientists can't say for sure what Klonopin does when ingested, except that it dramatically affects the functioning of the brain. This much we know: If your brain is on fire with electrical signals—like, say, you’re having an epileptic seizure—a dose of clonazepam will help put out the flames. It does so by lowering the electrical activity of the brain, specifically which electrical activities it suppresses is something that no one really seems to know for sure. And therein lies the reason why clonazepam, like nearly the entire class of benzos, causes such unpredictable reactions in people. Put simply, the brain is just too complex a structure for its owners to understand—and when you start monkeying around with the way it functions, it’s anybody’s guess what is going to happen next."

Huh?!? No one has any idea what it is does to our brains? For starter's there is this info from wikipedia:

"Mechanism of action

Figure of the GABAA receptor complex where the five subunits (two alpha, two beta, and one gamma) are symmetrically arranged in a pentagon shape about a central ion conduction pore. The location of the two GABA binding sites are located between the alpha and beta subunit, while the single benzodiazepine binding site is located between the alpha and gamma subunits.
Schematic diagram of the (α1)2(β2)2(γ2) GABAA receptor complex that depicts the five-protein subunits that form the receptor, the chloride (Cl-) ion channel pore at the center, the two GABA active binding sites at the α1 and β2 interfaces and the benzodiazepine (BZD) allosteric binding site at the α1 and γ2 interface.

Benzodiazepines work by increasing the efficiency of a natural brain chemical, GABA, to decrease the excitability of neurons. This reduces the communication between neurons and, therefore, has a calming effect on many of the functions of the brain.

GABA controls the excitability of neurons by binding to the GABAA receptor.[115] The GABAA receptor is a protein complex located in the synapses of neurons. All GABAA receptors contain an ion channel that conducts chloride ions across neuronal cell membranes and two binding sites for the neurotransmitter gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA), while a subset of GABAA receptor complexes also contain a single binding site for benzodiazepines. Binding of benzodiazepines to this receptor complex promotes binding of GABA, which in turn increases the total conduction of chloride ions across the neuronal cell membrane. This increased chloride ion influx hyperpolarizes the neuron's membrane potential. As a result, the difference between resting potential and threshold potential is increased and firing is less likely. Different GABAA receptor subtypes have varying distributions within different regions of the brain and, therefore, control distinct neuronal circuits. Hence, activation of different GABAA receptor subtypes by benzodiazepines may result in distinct pharmacological actions.[123] In terms of the mechanism of action of benzodiazepines, their similarities are too great to separate them into individual categories such as anxiolytic or hypnotic. For example, a hypnotic administered in low doses will produce anxiety-relieving effects, whereas a benzodiazepine marketed as an anti-anxiety drug will at higher doses induce sleep.[124]

The subset of GABAA receptors that also bind benzodiazepines are referred to as benzodiazepine receptors (BzR). The GABAA receptor is a heteromer composed of five subunits, the most common ones being two αs, two βs, and one γ (α2β2γ). For each subunit, many subtypes exist (α1-6, β1-3, and γ1-3). GABAA receptors that are made up of different combinations of subunit subtypes have different properties, different distributions in the brain and different activities relative to pharmacological and clinical effects.[125] Benzodiazepines bind at the interface of the α and γ subunits on the GABAA receptor. Binding also requires that alpha subunits contain a histidine amino acid residue, (i.e., α1, α2, α3, and α5 containing GABAA receptors). For this reason, benzodiazepines show no affinity for GABAA receptors containing α4 and α6 subunits with an arginine instead of a histidine residue.[126]

Once bound to the benzodiazepine receptor, the benzodiazepine ligand locks the benzodiazepine receptor into a conformation in which it has a greater affinity for the GABA neurotransmitter. This increases the frequency of the opening of the associated chloride ion channel and hyperpolarizes the membrane of the associated neuron. The inhibitory effect of the available GABA is potentiated, leading to sedatory and anxiolytic effects. Furthermore, different benzodiazepines can have different affinities for BzRs made up of different collection of subunits. For instance, those with high activity at the α1 are associated with stronger hypnotic effects, whereas those with higher affinity for GABAA receptors containing α2 and/or α3 subunits have good anti-anxiety activity.[127]

The benzodiazepine class of drugs also interact with peripheral benzodiazepine receptors. Peripheral benzodiazepine receptors are present in peripheral nervous system tissues, glial cells, and to a lesser extent the central nervous system.[128] These peripheral receptors are not structurally related nor coupled to GABAA receptors. They modulate the immune system and are involved in the body response to injury.[116][129] Benzodiazepines also function as weak adenosine reuptake inhibitors. It has been suggested that some of their anticonvulsant, anxiolytic and muscle relaxant effects may be in part mediated by this action.[117]"

 

[RTrain]

These articles definitely have a negative effect on the proper treatment and care of patients who would benefit from a controlled substance.

That being said, I doubt benzodiazepines are going anywhere soon as they are on the WHO's list of essential medications. They can be a lifesaver in certain situations (or at least it sure as hell feels that way).

Well yeah, they are first line treatment for seizures. But its easy to stop or severely limit the use of the medication in home prescriptions while keeping it as a medicine used for emergency medical situations.

 

['medicine cabinet']

You can find valium amps in just about every single medical bag along with morphine and fent or hydromorph for extremely severe pain. Given that, benzos arent some horribly deadly drug. Its a valuable tool just like many other compounds, and like everything excess is a bad thing. It just seems like benzos are the hot drug to demonize, the press have had their field day with opi painkills and "hillbilly heroin" (fuck me i hate that term) and now its on to the next drug thats abusable in some form so it has to be restricted even more so no one can access them...sorry people who really need it, junkies use them too so they get put in the same pot. Off topic example, but my oral surgeon who did my wisdom tooth extractions (tops then bottoms a year later) gave me ten mg hydros both times. Basically the first opi i ever had. My mom kept them hidden but when i found them and took 3...well, you know the rest. Now, these days the same dr who btw is awesome and an amazing oral surgeon wont rx anything except maybe antibiotics. No more pain meds.

Laws and healthcare mix about as well as electricity and water. Health care fraud is the only area that should be enforced, obviously drug supply as well, but as far as scaring doctors of rxing a drug bc a patient might use it recreationally after its intended purpose or have it taken by someone else is absurd.

Oh and that "mollylicious" cap, THAT is by faaar the deadliest pill ive ever seen besides a capful of cyanide or sarin.

 

[THE_REAL_OBLIVION]

I hate the slang K-pins for clonazepam. Its a great benzo tho. Never did me wrong.

Same, it's called Rivotril here in Canada and the rest of the world.

Clonazepam isn't (all that) different from other benzos. This article reads like another hysteria-wannabe creating piece of crap. This is not the way to present benzodiazepine addiction to the public, Dr Ashton's book is.

But scientists are rarely ever listened to and these loud mouth tabloid "investigative" journalists are leeches on the suffering of others.

 

[MagickalKat777]

Clonazepam is arguably the hardest benzo to get off of but I can think of far worse drugs.

 

[ro4eva]

Clonazepam is arguably the hardest benzo to get off of but I can think of far worse drugs.

Alprazolam for me. Ever since I was started on mmt, doctors have tried to switch me from Xanax (Alprazolam) to an equivalent dosage of Klonopin (Clonazepam), Dalmane (Flurazepam), Oxazepam, Bromazepam, and Ativan (Lorazepam) - all with no luck because about 24 hours after the last dose of Xanax, I was in withdrawal.

All I know is, they try desperately to avoid the combo I'm on, which is methadone + alprazolam, apparently because the two drugs are known to induce a nod not typically seen with the likes of, for example, clonazepam. Yeah...

It's true though - I have a very hard time not nodding away now. Pretty much the only thing that can stop it is if I use a strong stimulant, such as d-amphetamine. Then again, adding the Dexedrine on top produces a fine euphoria. It's not intense, and there's little in the way of a rush, but it's definitely there.

So yeah - after several failed attempts to switch me to another benzo, they finally left me alone, and I've been on Xanax (Alprazolam) + Methadose (Methadone) ever since. Apparently I'm the only reason why the methadone clinic's pharmacy orders in extra Xannies. Boy do I feel special.

 

[RTrain]

How much xanax a day are you on?^^^