AddictRecon
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2017
- Messages
- 199
Drug mentor, would you be interested in a quid pro quo dialogue? With literally ever post being just that, quid pro quo?
I have no formal training in classical logic.. You are talking well above my paygrade, but that honestly in my experience doesnt disqualify me from the conversation, Ive had people use similar formulas to claim they could refute the existence of God, but thats nonsense
I freely admit that I cannot prove them, even if they are objective. What I do know is that in the reality I am experiencing, everything thusfar falls in line with them, and nothing violates them.
Would you mind if I engaged you with the Socratic method, and would you be able to keep your answers short and concise?
Surely you have come across a situation where something has caused you to question these principles?
Drug mentor, would you be interested in a quid pro quo dialogue? With literally ever post being just that, quid pro quo?
His account is flawed, he hasnt died, therefore claiming death as a requirement isnt something even he could know, please dont take this the wrong way, but what he is saying sounds like pure nonsense.
Perhaps everything youve just stated escapes me because of my own intellectual shortcomings, but what exactly are you talking about? What evidence do you have of these dimensions? When you say 'its just not possible to wrap your head around' you are essentially saying the truth is unknowable, but that is antithetical to what truth is, which is knowable, its a matter of deduction.. What you are proposing is what appears to be an inductive argument, and there are major problems with induction. I mean, I know Im a Christian but this getting even a little 'woo' for me..
Can you expound on this perhaps? The gentleman you were describing earlier has no direct experience, as one of the requirements he outlined required something he has yet to experience himself..
What evidence can you cite that the principles of logic are malleable?
I never implied that your lacking a background in formal logic disqualified you from the conversation, and I apologise if it came off that way. I wasn't sure whether you had the relevant background or not, most people haven't been exposed to much (if any) logic, but most people can't name the LEM or LNC either. I have never heard of anyone using logic to disprove God, though I have seen a natural deduction proof for the existence of God using the modal logic S5; the proof is not a theorem so it is possible to contest the assumptions which the proof relies on, and there is some debate as to whether S5 is too strong to be an adequate logic of necessity and possibility.
On the contrary, he did die. Whether his heart stopped or not, or for how long he was out, he has no way of knowing as he was alone in his room. All he remembers of the body was an intense pain at the top of his head, so painful he began weeping and he was certain that he was about to die, thinking possibly it was a stroke. What he did experience was a total collapse of all egos, total death of the mind. That is death. The body is a vehicle carrying the mind, allowing for the embodiment and expression of non-physical force. The mind can live without the body, but the body can not live without the mind.
The Absolute, God, the totality, is not knowable. You can not deduce it or reason it logically, and prove your assertion, using only the relative human mind or physical effects. It's inherently impossible - you can not use something of a finite nature to prove something infinite. The brain can not hold it, no physical instrument can measure it. The only way is to become it, to merge with it, to experience it directly.. then you have the proof. The reason why it is possible for man to become it is because we are inherently connected with it.. the bridge exists within the mind, and it involves awareness. When you trace awareness back to its source you find yourself at this Absolute point, you realize you are the Absolute/God.
So yes, you can't know the Truth. But you can become the Truth.
As a Christian you should be familiar with the phrase uttered by Jesus. "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life.". He wasn't joking. He was the Truth. He most definitely had that Absolute experience.
As I have explained, he has had direct experience of the Absolute. When the mind dies completely, all egos collapsed, death, there should remain nothing.. but there is still awareness. You are still aware. And you become aware of being encapsulated in something far greater than what you knew previously. In that moment you know you are everything, and you are nothing. That is the Absolute/God.
Logic is a function of human thinking and processes. I'm not going to be able to prove its limitations using those same human thinking and processes. You have to step beyond it to get the picture.
How does one measure a centimeter, or weigh a gram, if there is no reference or relationships with which to compare it to? It's all interrelated to other physical elements or processes. If you removed all matter from the universe, how would you know which way is up or down? How fast you were moving, if at all? You can't. It's all done in relation to other points. If you find yourself in a superior position of observation, where everything is resolved to an Absolute point, then there is nothing with which to compare against.
You can't think, reason, or logic your way to an experience of the Absolute. You have to be there. There are methods of achieving that, but logic will only have you chasing your own tail.
But I guess to be more to the point, can he prove what he is saying is true, and without faith in his testimony, how can you know?
I've had 3 NDEs in my life time, one in which I flatlined for a good 10 minutes or so.
The monkey mind is part of duality and it's never going to be able to recognize or explain this. In the NDE state the conceptual mind is irrelevant because you aren't you anymore, not in this ego sense.
Logocentricism is a mind-based activity in a bicameral brain but when you're dead the mind ceases.