Opioids Is kratom THAT harmful to the liver?

[xtcgrrrl]

Background info here: I’ve had liver problems before, namely, NAFLD (non-alcoholic fatty liver disease) which my doctor told me I should lose weight to get rid of. Ok, then, weight lost. But I still get this odd (and persistent and very uncomfortable) pain in my liver area when I take kratom. Plus, lately I’ve gotten a bunch of other symptoms that seem to be associated with liver issues. Given that I’ve taken a rather excessive amount of drugs (both legal and illegal, and especially, I’ve abused Tylenol, which I know is horrible for the liver) I’m just wondering just how bad kratom is for the liver? (Not using it isn’t an option right now. I’m using it for pain, and while I intend to stop in the near future, I need to resolve the pain problem first.) also I’ve been getting various symptoms that could be attributed to liver problems (persistent nausea, fatigue, etc) but could also be attributed to other things I have going on so it’s hard to tell…and I’ve looked up kratom and its effect on the liver and gotten widely varying answers. I do plan to get my liver enzymes checked in the near future but this is to satisfy my curiosity on the matter…anyone know conclusively?

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

Snafu_in_the_void ping! Does this work here?

Apparently if you have rare genetic mutation, you can get liver issues of kratom. Before you figure it out, I'd stop.

Do you want help with that or do you disagree or do you make it yourself?

 

[xtcgrrrl]

Ok but…I’ve been taking kratom for literally years, wouldn’t it have had a negative effect by now if it was going to?

Edited to add: I also don’t take all that much at once. Less than the recommended serving size, in fact (which is 3g; I generally take 2g, which is the minimum effective dose.)

 

[negrogesic]

Cases of serious liver damage associated with kratom use are exceptionally rare considering the huge number of kratom consumers, and the cases that have occurred were in people with a history of liver issues and/or were using other substances. In alot of these case reports, liver dysfunction occured rapidly, like within the first few weeks of taking it, which seem to point to genetic cause or perhaps kratom contaminated with heavy metals, pesticides etc.

The strain on the liver is dose dependent so if you are taking 2g a few times a day you have nothing to worry about. If anything, due to the plant material, the kratom is adding additional insoluble fiber to your diet which can improve liver function and NAFLD. If you are a heavy drinker and start taking a ton of kratom it might raise liver enzymes but this will reverse when you stop.

 

[xtcgrrrl]

Helpful, thanks!

 

[FreeLiving258]

Hey! I actually created an account to reply to your thread. My hubby and I were on heroin and opioids for over 12 years (he interveinously and I smoked it). Ayahuasca got me off it and I've used kratom for the past 1.5 yrs. My hubby got locked up for the dope and was able to get clean with his time incarcerated and so his kratom usage started before mine. Now he took a lot of it (I wish I could measure in grams but we have powder that we use a teaspoon to measure dose. He was taking approx 15 teaspoons a day over 4 doses) but he started seeing really dark and smelly urine. I, who took approx 12 teaspoons over 4 doses was being told by my chiropractor that my gal bladder felt inflamed.

Long story short we realized that kratom in fact does cause liver damage and there have been deaths reported. The slow build up of all the powder your liver has to process is not something it can maintain. My husband and I have since been kicking the shit and his urine has returned to normal. I'm still at a minimal dose because my god has the emotional effects of the kratom withdrawal been a total bitch. Apparently there is property of it that works on the brain the same way an SSRI does.

The truth is that there is so little known about kratom currently. It's common to have heavy metal toxicity (which we dealt with also before switching to a more regulated product) within it and the damage to the liver should not be taken lightly. I'd be cautious, especially given your history! Also, switch to taking aspirin over Tylenol!! That shit is no good taken with any kind of frequency!

Hope this helps. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

Is it possible to get bloodwork done, taper and stop kratom and get blood tested again within like 6 months to just get a "reading" on any differences in samples?
I felt no issues in my 4 yrs or so of use at same dose (2g 3-4 times a day) but was also on other substances like phenibut every third day, pregabalin every few days, weed, cigs, coffee, sugar etc that it would be hard to pinpoint any problems if noticed. I do drink lots of water, though. Matter of fact water is my only liquid intake other than an occasional cup of milk, apple cider (or other juice) once in a while, coffee in small amounts.
Water makes up at least 95% of my liquid intake.
I think we all need to keep our water intakes adequate and maybe more when dosing substances and/or meds.
Wish I would have gotten a before/during/after bloodwork during that period. But again... so many other substances involed who is to say what would be what?

 

[Xorkoth]

It seems that some people get serious liver problems from taking kratom... but it seems very rare. Personally, I have probably taken 100 kilos of kratom in my life, at least... I was heavily addicted to it (up to 100 grams a day) for 6 years, and then have had a few more years of being heavily on it since then. Never had the slightest health problems from it. But I have read other cases of people even being hospitalized from liver problems due to kratom, from far less usage than me. It's a bit of a mystery.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Ok but…I’ve been taking kratom for literally years, wouldn’t it have had a negative effect by now if it was going to?

Edited to add: I also don’t take all that much at once. Less than the recommended serving size, in fact (which is 3g; I generally take 2g, which is the minimum effective dose.)

Yeah I looked it up, it doesn't say all but it says usually any instance of liver issues happens within 1 to 8 weeks of starting regular daily dosing. Obviously that was a long time ago for you.

If you have significant liver damage enough to cause liver pain, you would likely be jaundiced. Do you have yellowing of the whites of your eyes?

I did find something, there's such a thing as narcotic bowel syndrome. It's a syndrome of intestinal pain caused by taking opiate medication. The pain recurs each time doses are taken.

Kratom is an opioid receptor agonist, it's not unreasonable that it can cause narcotic bowel syndrome in some people.

 

[Skorpio]

There are a few types of liver damage (caused by substances): one is where a substance or the process of metabolizing it damages the liver cells in a cumulative fashion. Alcohol is like this to some extent. This is the kind of damage which testing will reveal and give you a chance to alter your behaviors.

The other type of liver damage is known as idiosyncratic drug toxicity, and this often occurs rapidly seemingly out of nowhere. The process for this liver damage is that metabolism of the drug produces reactive metabolites which bind to amino acids in the liver cells (or other cells). These adducts of drug-protein (called haptens) are sometimes recognized by immune cells as foreign. This leads to an autoimmune type response which goes from nothing, to life threatening pretty quickly.

Stevens Johnson syndrome is an example of this process where a bunch of drugs could cause your body to reject your skin. Some halogenated ether anesthetics (especially halothane) form phosgene like metabolites which can cause a rapidly progressing immune mediated hepatitis.

I would guess this is what is happening with kratom users, because the liver failure seems rapid and typically without a large prodromal stage. Unfortunately due the mind-boggling diversity of our immune systems, this kind of reaction is pretty much impossible to predict on a personal level (like even identical twins will have significantly different immune systems).

I guess if you take drugs and start noticing symptoms of liver failure from nowhere (jaundice, extreme pain, chalky poo) don't delay treatment.

 

[bubadmt]

Background info here: I’ve had liver problems before, namely, NAFLD (non-alcoholic fatty liver disease) which my doctor told me I should lose weight to get rid of. Ok, then, weight lost. But I still get this odd (and persistent and very uncomfortable) pain in my liver area when I take kratom. Plus, lately I’ve gotten a bunch of other symptoms that seem to be associated with liver issues. Given that I’ve taken a rather excessive amount of drugs (both legal and illegal, and especially, I’ve abused Tylenol, which I know is horrible for the liver) I’m just wondering just how bad kratom is for the liver? (Not using it isn’t an option right now. I’m using it for pain, and while I intend to stop in the near future, I need to resolve the pain problem first.) also I’ve been getting various symptoms that could be attributed to liver problems (persistent nausea, fatigue, etc) but could also be attributed to other things I have going on so it’s hard to tell…and I’ve looked up kratom and its effect on the liver and gotten widely varying answers. I do plan to get my liver enzymes checked in the near future but this is to satisfy my curiosity on the matter…anyone know conclusively?

I’ve been taking kratom for about 6-8 years now daily, anywhere from 25-50 grams per day and my bloodwork always comes out great. I also supplement with NAC, milk thistle, TUDCA, vitamin D, and a kidney support supplement daily, just as a preventative measure. I would recommend doing the same. But no, I don’t think it’s that bad for your liver, if you’re generally healthy and drink sufficient amounts of water.

 

[Nas47]

I got liver issues from long time.25 years with hep.C before i cure it.at least fibrosis for sure......so I am highly succeptable to feel,if something loads a lot of liver.....and despite there exist some dubious data about possible liver toxicity related with kratom intake......personaly had not such feelings at all....and i was hooked on kratom half a year......look even after two beers it feels bad on my liver.....so alc.for me is the worst choise for people with compromized livers.....if...yes if,if,if.....the kratom is good quality and u can be sure it not sprayed with some shit(which is absolute possible) i don't think,that is some big load for the liver.imo poppy straw is more toxic on the liver,than kratom.IMO

 

[Synaps3]

Background info here: I’ve had liver problems before, namely, NAFLD (non-alcoholic fatty liver disease) which my doctor told me I should lose weight to get rid of. Ok, then, weight lost. But I still get this odd (and persistent and very uncomfortable) pain in my liver area when I take kratom. Plus, lately I’ve gotten a bunch of other symptoms that seem to be associated with liver issues...

I believe I got some type of liver damage from kratom. I, like you, have used many drugs over the years (many strange ones and research alcohols). I haven't used anything risky in probably 7-8 years though and don't drink anymore. Using dilaudid and vape right now - nothing else. Let me explain. So I used to drink a fair amount for about 4-5 years at which point I started consuming RC alcohols instead in order to be healthier. After a couple more years, I quit everything for a couple years. Then I could not take pure sobriety any longer and began taking ONLY kratom. That lasted 4 years and I used nothing other than kratom + vape during that time.

I had to stop the kratom after 4 years of daily use at 20g. It started to give me chest pains and head pressure. Felt like my head was swelling up. On my last couple days of use I also started getting nausea and itching after it would wear off. I quit completely; that was 2 months ago. So that's why now I'm using 9mg dilaudid everyday. I couldn't take being with nothing and it seemed like the kratom was starting to poison me.

Now that it's been 2 months since the kratom, I am a little better, but not amazing. I still get a little itchy every now and then and I seem to have to EAT TWICE AS MUCH food as I used to. I lost 10 lbs, but most of that was due to covid. Right now I'm still chronically worried that the dilaudid or vape might not be allowing me to heal from it. I'm wondering which of those is worse? I'm guessing the vape.

Anyway, I can't confirm the liver damage is real cause I didn't get any tests. However, I think it's very unlikely that I took kratom for 4 years and then suddenly got allergic to it (and no, it wasn't a specific batch or strain - i kept trying new ones). I don't bother with docs anymore unless it's an emergency and I believe my body can naturally heal with good food, vitamins, etc.

 

[xtcgrrrl]

I believe I got some type of liver damage from kratom. I, like you, have used many drugs over the years (many strange ones and research alcohols). I haven't used anything risky in probably 7-8 years though and don't drink anymore. Using dilaudid and vape right now - nothing else. Let me explain. So I used to drink a fair amount for about 4-5 years at which point I started consuming RC alcohols instead in order to be healthier. After a couple more years, I quit everything for a couple years. Then I could not take pure sobriety any longer and began taking ONLY kratom. That lasted 4 years and I used nothing other than kratom + vape during that time.

I had to stop the kratom after 4 years of daily use at 20g. It started to give me chest pains and head pressure. Felt like my head was swelling up. On my last couple days of use I also started getting nausea and itching after it would wear off. I quit completely; that was 2 months ago. So that's why now I'm using 9mg dilaudid everyday. I couldn't take being with nothing and it seemed like the kratom was starting to poison me.

Now that it's been 2 months since the kratom, I am a little better, but not amazing. I still get a little itchy every now and then and I seem to have to EAT TWICE AS MUCH food as I used to. I lost 10 lbs, but most of that was due to covid. Right now I'm still chronically worried that the dilaudid or vape might not be allowing me to heal from it. I'm wondering which of those is worse? I'm guessing the vape.

Anyway, I can't confirm the liver damage is real cause I didn't get any tests. However, I think it's very unlikely that I took kratom for 4 years and then suddenly got allergic to it (and no, it wasn't a specific batch or strain - i kept trying new ones). I don't bother with docs anymore unless it's an emergency and I believe my body can naturally heal with good food, vitamins, etc.

It’s probably the vape that is causing or perpetuating the problem here. I quit vaping (again, for the 3rd time) recently and a lot of my physical problems subsided after that. Not that they went away completely; I don’t think the vape CAUSED the problems, but it definitely exacerbated them. Vasoconstriction maybe? And I know that one of my issues is that I aspirated some stomach acid (I have GERD, and I don’t sleep on an incline like I'm supposed to, so during the night I accidentally inhaled some stomach acid that had backed up into my throat. I woke up choking and coughing and after that my asthma returned with a vengeance! Was unable to take a deep breath without pain, and wheezing all of the time. OF COURSE vaping is gonna make that worse!)

Anyway, I’m still taking the kratom but I plan to get my liver enzymes checked soon so I’ll have some definite answers as per that