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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Is it ok to shoot up your son with IV drugs if he asks you to?

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The natural reaction of posters is always going to be a toe curdling revulsion to your question but I want to congratulate you. It takes courage to post such a question and the fact that you are looking for the best solution is commendable. If your son is an adult mentally as well as physically, and if he is hellbent on doing it, then the best alternative is for you to educate him regarding safe usage.

As for the poster telling you that you should be teaching him how to get clean, they are at the wrong website. Demonising usage is nonsense that has no place on any Harm Reduction site. Educate your son but also educate him as to the interplay between usage and Manic Depression.
 
To other posters: A parent's primary responsibility to their child is to educate them on life, to guide them in a responsible way. The idea that the poster would be cpndoning usage by teaching his son proper IV usage is nonsense. If your parent told you "Do as I say, not as I do," what would you call them? Would you obey them? Teaching a child who is adult in every way how best to safeguard their health is absolutely the responsibility of a parent and concurrently, the responsibility of any true Harm Reduction advocate.
 
I don't think anything is ever so straight forward rachamim, maybe in a perfect world...

Supplying him with information on how to safely shoot up is way different to actually showing him how to do it. Not every child is intelligent enough to understand that Dad is just trying to safeguard his health by teaching him how to shoot up properly...and several years down the road when this child is very possibly in the depths of addiction, there's a good chance IMO that his views won't be sympathetic to his Dad for having his health a top priority...more likely blame and anger would come into it for his father not doing everything possible to prevent him from using one of the most addictive drugs in the most addictive way. Maybe in a perfect world he'd understand the angle of HR and have no ill feelings.

At 27 a parents job is 90% over IMO (being someone without kids, but plans to have them in future, take my opinion for what it's worth :p ) Introducing this bi-polar 27 yo to IV use is bound to end up badly, fair enough if he goes out and does it himself anyway, at least the parent won't have the massive guilt that could be associated with first showing him how to shoot up...that kind of thing could ruin their relationship forever. I'm all for providing information/pamflets, whatever... but actually showing how to do it/sharing drugs/doing IV meth or herion together is too far.

You could also say that not showing him how to IV safely might end up with the child being dead...

Not sure what else to say. I almost feel like the right thing to do would be to show him how to do it properly...but I guess when I look at it practically it just seems like a horrible idea. It's an interesting topic and I also want to congratulate the OP for having the guts to post something like this.
 
^you're dead wrong.

Injecting drugs with nothing more than a few words on proper technique wont save you - seeing and doing is the only way.

Whilst i disagree this guy had a straight question - his son IS 27. so theoretical discussion is pointless - he'll do this if you want him to or not - so i say SHOW him first hand, and if he chooses to take the step allow him to do so by himself. It's a long dark road - and at 27 if i was using needles all the time id be pretty disgusted as per my lifes goals.
 
Christ: Whatever his views of his father will be in the future, or even now, aren't really an issue. Parents aren't "friends" to their children. Their job is to guide and educate, not dictate behavior. If a child is an adult in every way and has clearly decided to do it, NOT showing him can end up costing him his life. Most users are ignoramuses to the hilt. A father that is experienced, obviously concerned about risk, and willing to consider the pros and cons of such lessons is so much better than some moron who really couldn't care less what happens either way.

Guilt? Guilt is irrational from get but IF such a father does feel guilty, he can rest assured that its misplaced guilt since he only ever acted with his child's best interest at heart. Being a hypocrite though? That can really make a parent feel guilty and moreover, make a child truly hate their parent. G-D forbid the lad catches HIV or HCV because dear old dad did NOT choose to educate him, I reckon he might hate his father a hell of a lot more.
 
Guilt? Guilt is irrational from get but IF such a father does feel guilty, he can rest assured that its misplaced guilt since he only ever acted with his child's best interest at heart. Being a hypocrite though? That can really make a parent feel guilty and moreover, make a child truly hate their parent. G-D forbid the lad catches HIV or HCV because dear old dad did NOT choose to educate him, I reckon he might hate his father a hell of a lot more.
i don't understand what you're saying. not in terms of the points you're making, but how you're writing them. are you saying that the parent would be a hypocrite to shoot drugs and say their kid shouldn't?
i think what you're saying is that he definitely should show his kid how to inject dope. right?

i don't agree with people that are answering this question definitively - whether they are saying "yes" or "no". obviously a lot of folks have a strong opinion either way, but considering what this forum exists to do, there is a lot to take into consideration here.

saying "yes, definitely" or "no, what the fuck are you thinking?" seems to depend on
a) what people's preconceptions are about the practice of IV administration or
b) ideas of what is "right" or "wrong" for parent to do.

it's too complicated and specific a question to give an answer that is only defined by those points.
we don't know these guys - some child-parent relationships might be able to cope with such a thing...whereas others can lead to huge family disputes, resentment, blame and even in the most suitable family situation (if one exists) things can always go wrong or blow up in your face. whatever choice you make - you could regret shooting up your son, and you could potentially regret not doing it.

i think it is a really interesting discussion, but we really don't know enough to give adequate advice.
having said that, giving us more information about you or your son (or linking to photos...!) isn't going to be appropriate or any more helpful. the more ideas come out of this discussion the more constructive it might be.

i can relate to both sides of the debate, but i think both sides of the discussion are simplifying the whole thing to claim there is a clear-cut answer. i think we can all imagine what the conventional HR response to this is, but we all know that there are a lot of orthodox perspectives and commonly-held beliefs about drugs that are just irrational bullshit.

a few of us agree that being shown good IV technique is a good thing, an important thing - but the OP may also wish to ask himself whether the best person to provide demonstration is him. have you ever had health complications from shooting up? abscesses? missed shots? damaged veins? scar tissue?

also, does your son listen to you? is there a respect there, does his attitude show you that he listens to you, trusts you, believes you? or is he more likely (like many sons - i for one) to go "what does my fuckin' old man know?" and ignore you and do the opposite?
i don't what sort of health workers or whoever would be the best to give advice - people at needle exchanges or user's advocacy groups or whatever - but this might be worth pursuing as well.

you don't want your son taking dangerous risks, but it is worth questioning whether you are encouraging him to try injecting drugs.
is he really likely to go and score some drugs, pick up a fit pack and go and try it out himself with no information or guidance on proper technique? is this really likely to be imminent? to me that sounds more like a teenage/early 20s kind of thing to do. if he hasn't shot up yet, but he tells you he wants to, maybe you are actually the excuse he needs to try it.
perhaps he is actually seeking your approval without either of you necessarily being aware of it? perhaps even if you decide to do it, you should hold off on offering or agreeing until it is obvious he will find a way to do it regardless.
i can't speak for your understand or even begin to understand what he is like, but i'm the same age as him, and i tried shooting up years ago, when i was 19. what has held him back from taking that step all this time? is it maybe fear or a healthy concern for his own welfare? shit, if i had that hesitation, i sure would like to hold onto it! it's not worth any of us speculating about what is preventing him from being completely off the rails, but it sounds like he already has a lot of shit to contend with, such as alcoholism and his past. we both understand that IVing drugs is fucking amazing - and that knowledge can't be undone or completely forgotten.

i'm not saying you shouldn't do it (or that you should) because neither of these responses really expands on the basic options we started off with; yes or no.
there might be better options, or more options and regardless of what happens, it is not a simple proposition.
it is not black and white. i absolutely agree with what a lot of people are saying - to be honest i think the whole thing is a bit sad (no offence OP, it sounds like your son has had a tough life) , but it doesn't seem right to dismiss either perspective out of hand - that doesn't really help, because obviously it is a dilemma, for it to have been posted here to start with. in a way, both options are equally troubling - it's a tricky subject, loaded with potential disaster.
seems like the dude who started this thread hasn't said much for a week or so...i wonder if you have any more to add - or any updates? i'm trying to keep an open mind about this, and i think he needs to as well.

my thoughts about this are obviously very ambivalent, but that's not to say that anyone's perspective is wrong, except maybe treating it like it is a simple proposition. i understand people that dismiss this out of hand, but i can also see why some people think that is bullshit.

fuck, this has turned into a PhD dissertation. sorry for being longwinded, kids.
 
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he'll do this if you want him to or not

It's true that no one has control over what another person does...but in some situations you have a heap of influence. We don't know that he'd go and shoot up anyway if he wasn't taught, maybe he wouldn't bother...I know I wouldn't bother unless I had a respected person to teach me how to do it properly. There's a chance the kid could also see his Dad teaching him as a green light.

It's all speculation but overall I just feel that much more harm can come to the parent and kid if he went ahead with showing him to shoot up. Better that the kid stays away from IV use altogether, but if he is going to do it I believe 100% in getting the best HR info possible, just not from his Dad.

Again, it's interesting stuff. I'm all for harm reduction but not in this situation with the set of circumstances. If it were a kid who had his shit together and wasn't so predisposed to addiction, didn't have a mental illness like bipolar - I MIGHT think differently.

There's no right or wrong on this one. IMO it's more about parenting style than just your general HR.
 
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i don't understand what you're saying. not in terms of the points you're making, but how you're writing them. are you saying that the parent would be a hypocrite to shoot drugs and say their kid shouldn't?
i think what you're saying is that he definitely should show his kid how to inject dope. right?

i don't agree with people that are answering this question definitively - whether they are saying "yes" or "no". obviously a lot of folks have a strong opinion either way, but considering what this forum exists to do, there is a lot to take into consideration here.

saying "yes, definitely" or "no, what the fuck are you thinking?" seems to depend on
a) what people's preconceptions are about the practice of IV administration or
b) ideas of what is "right" or "wrong" for parent to do.

it's too complicated and specific a question to give an answer that is only defined by those points.
we don't know these guys - some child-parent relationships might be able to cope with such a thing...whereas others can lead to huge family disputes, resentment, blame and even in the most suitable family situation (if one exists) things can always go wrong or blow up in your face. whatever choice you make - you could regret shooting up your son, and you could potentially regret not doing it.

i think it is a really interesting discussion, but we really don't know enough to give adequate advice.
having said that, giving us more information about you or your son (or linking to photos...!) isn't going to be appropriate or any more helpful. the more ideas come out of this discussion the more constructive it might be.

i can relate to both sides of the debate, but i think both sides of the discussion are simplifying the whole thing to claim there is a clear-cut answer. i think we can all imagine what the conventional HR response to this is, but we all know that there are a lot of orthodox perspectives and commonly-held beliefs about drugs that are just irrational bullshit.

a few of us agree that being shown good IV technique is a good thing, an important thing - but the OP may also wish to ask himself whether the best person to provide demonstration is him. have you ever had health complications from shooting up? abscesses? missed shots? damaged veins? scar tissue?

also, does your son listen to you? is there a respect there, does his attitude show you that he listens to you, trusts you, believes you? or is he more likely (like many sons - i for one) to go "what does my fuckin' old man know?" and ignore you and do the opposite?
i don't what sort of health workers or whoever would be the best to give advice - people at needle exchanges or user's advocacy groups or whatever - but this might be worth pursuing as well.

you don't want your son taking dangerous risks, but it is worth questioning whether you are encouraging him to try injecting drugs.
is he really likely to go and score some drugs, pick up a fit pack and go and try it out himself with no information or guidance on proper technique? is this really likely to be imminent? to me that sounds more like a teenage/early 20s kind of thing to do. if he hasn't shot up yet, but he tells you he wants to, maybe you are actually the excuse he needs to try it.
perhaps he is actually seeking your approval without either of you necessarily being aware of it? perhaps even if you decide to do it, you should hold off on offering or agreeing until it is obvious he will find a way to do it regardless.
i can't speak for your understand or even begin to understand what he is like, but i'm the same age as him, and i tried shooting up years ago, when i was 19. what has held him back from taking that step all this time? is it maybe fear or a healthy concern for his own welfare? shit, if i had that hesitation, i sure would like to hold onto it! it's not worth any of us speculating about what is preventing him from being completely off the rails, but it sounds like he already has a lot of shit to contend with, such as alcoholism and his past. we both understand that IVing drugs is fucking amazing - and that knowledge can't be undone or completely forgotten.

i'm not saying you shouldn't do it (or that you should) because neither of these responses really expands on the basic options we started off with; yes or no.
there might be better options, or more options and regardless of what happens, it is not a simple proposition.
it is not black and white. i absolutely agree with what a lot of people are saying - to be honest i think the whole thing is a bit sad (no offence OP, it sounds like your son has had a tough life) , but it doesn't seem right to dismiss either perspective out of hand - that doesn't really help, because obviously it is a dilemma, for it to have been posted here to start with. in a way, both options are equally troubling - it's a tricky subject, loaded with potential disaster.
seems like the dude who started this thread hasn't said much for a week or so...i wonder if you have any more to add - or any updates? i'm trying to keep an open mind about this, and i think he needs to as well.

my thoughts about this are obviously very ambivalent, but that's not to say that anyone's perspective is wrong, except maybe treating it like it is a simple proposition. i understand people that dismiss this out of hand, but i can also see why some people think that is bullshit.

fuck, this has turned into a PhD dissertation. sorry for being longwinded, kids.

Don't apologise, best post so far in my opinion. As you said the more ideas are brought up the more valuable this thread becomes.

I have never shot up, never had the desire to, and probably never will, more of an acid head ;)

However this has been a thread loaded with all sorts of interesting viewpoints and ideas and really has got me thinking. I've been following for quite a while but felt I had no basis on which to comment.

In my opinion, ultimately it has to be the decision of the OP. I am considering the possibility (not stating this as a fact by any means, just conjecture) that there is part of you that has come here to try and delegate responsibility. I mean it's a lot easier to deal with the wrong decision if you can say well I didn't alone make this decision, I asked advice and got the wrong advice or however you might frame it. Again this is just conjecture, just a thought, I don't mean to say this is what you're doing OP, just something to honestly ask yourself.

I think you should go with your instinct, I know this isn't something to take lightly, but he's your son, no one elses and only you really know what's best for him, no one else here.

You may regret your decision, you may not. It's a tough one for sure that really raises a lot of questions, but other peoples opinions aren't really, rather just somethin to ponder.

Whatever decision you make, it's your decision and it's on your head.
I feel for you, being in this position to begin with, it's not an envyable one by any means, but this is life and here you are.

You'll have to make a decision at some point and I hope everything works out for you and your son :)
You clearly love him a lot.
 
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Forget the father son dynamic for a minute. Why should he shoot up? What good can possibly come from a 27 year mentally ill addict who has never held down a job and lives in a half way house suddenly starting I'ving hard drugs? Plenty of people rightly state that not everyone who shoots up descends into junky dome, but can anyone here seriously say they don't see this ending badly? So what if he learns how to hit a vein and use clean rugs? That doesn't mean he will be immune to the real dangers of Iv drug use. Searching out a greater rush when you already show a history of addiction is dicing with danger. This kid (and despite being 27, he hasn't shown me any signs of being an adult) is the last person who should be using drugs period.

To fob off your parenting responsibility with a shrug and defeatist attitude that he will do it anyway is pathetic. Being a role model doesn't stop when he is 18. So what if it is hypocritical not to want him to IV? Any true friend would step in and stop some one if they look like they are about to lose control of their drug use so why shouldn't a parent?
 
Wow. Tough thread. It's like a microcosm of the whys and wherefores of HR. Fittingly, it's littered with the bombastic politics that accompany such difficult questions.

My feeling is that HR doesn't stop because somebody is chaotic or prone to instability. In fact, the need for it is only enhanced.

However, I would feel extremely trepidatious about giving anyone step-by-step advice on IV'ing unless they had routinely IV'd by themselves or in the company of others. I am not necessarily a proponent of freely accessible and pre-emptive schooling in this regard. If somebody is currently attempting to IV, then there is a clear need to educate on how to do this correctly. If no current IV activity is occurring, then the need to educate does not exist.

If your relationship is as close as you indicate in your OP, you should be able to determine the extent of his usage. Either way, you will be minimising the harm - either through him using IV poor technique, or by inappropriately and prematurely facilitating him to move into an IV repertoire.

Having said all this, perhaps this may serve as a reminder that children of all ages will usually look towards their parents for an example. Perhaps the greater example you can set would be to knock your usage on the head. Sorry if that comes across as moralistic (it's not intended to be) but the whole thread screams 'damage limitation'.
 
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Ive only seen the title and couldn't even read the OP or accompanying replies, but short answer is no fucking way!

Just the title makes me sick to the stomach if I believe it isnt trolling or something

I know this is a HR site, and like I said I havent read all the circumstances, but my kids are young, my boy is only 3 and I know they have probably inherited my shitty addictive personality and I dread their teenage years (I'm separated from their mother)

Lock him in a room ala trainspotting or something, so what if he hates you for a few months, itll be worth it in the long run, because all any IV drug use leads to is nothing, and feel free to quote that for truth :p

Im under no illusions that my children wont try drugs when they are older but I just hope I can guide them in the right direction with moderation

So NO DO NOT shoot up your son! I'm sure everyone here vividly remembers their very first shot, probably down to the clothes they were wearing, you want to be part of that memory for your son?
 
I think without trying to judge in any way I would have to agree with the post above me. I can however see both sides to this and can understand how the father may think its better to teach his son the safest way possible but I think given what we know about his son and his history of mental ilness and such it would be plain wrong to teach anyone how to shoot up let alone your own son, if this spirals out of control will u be able not to.blame yourself for something u may have been able to prevent?? This is however just my 2cents its a tough one but good luck
 
So NO DO NOT shoot up your son! I'm sure everyone here vividly remembers their very first shot, probably down to the clothes they were wearing, you want to be part of that memory for your son?

A little off topic but I don't even remember it happening.

You should read through the thread before making a post like that.
 
A little off topic but I don't even remember it happening.

You should read through the thread before making a post like that.

I have since and see my ignorance

But no matter the situation I stand by what I originally said

And why can't you remember your first shot? It's the feeling nearly 99% of drug addicts chase...
 
Because I had eaten around half a bottle of xanax. I remember most other times I have done it, it's really not all it's cracked up to be.
 
Because I had eaten around half a bottle of xanax. I remember most other times I have done it, it's really not all it's cracked up to be.

what did you shoot for your first time? I remember shooting a 1/4g of meth for my 1st shot, all of my other experiences with speed had been orally until that point. I was drunk & stoned and once I had that shot it took over

I know youve got 3000posts but any 1st time shot is gonna override 30mg xanax lol
 
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Around 70-90mg of heroin, apparently I spent the whole time basically unconscious and I'm not surprised, I probably wasn't far off dropping.

P.S I wasn't having a go at you, in fact I knew you wouldn't change your opinion on the matter but it just adds more to the discussion when you know more of the variables so you aren't just repeating what others have said :)
 
fuck - sounds like you're lucky to still be here, jake. xanax and smack?
i was sure you were going to say you'd had amphetamine in your first shot. some risky business there...
 
Around 70-90mg of heroin, apparently I spent the whole time basically unconscious and I'm not surprised, I probably wasn't far off dropping.

P.S I wasn't having a go at you, in fact I knew you wouldn't change your opinion on the matter but it just adds more to the discussion when you know more of the variables so you aren't just repeating what others have said :)

Ok then well you do remember :p , my opinion is my opinion. I think we may have gotten off on the wrong foot, and since reading I dont think I was repeating what others had said, I was merely giving my own perspective
 
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