Harm Reduction Is drinking on these dosages of Klonopin and phenibut likely to kill me or cause permanent damage?

[Mycophile]

Ok, so I'm honestly not worried about this, but my little brother was concerned about me so he asked me to ask the forum this question and I said I would.

I've been taking Klonopin for almost 20 years unfortunately (I'd like to get off it and I'm going to try at some point) and I take about 2.5mgs most days but my body is very tolerant to it most of the time I think because i have been on it for so long. I mean I sleep way more than I should (one reason I want to quit), but otherwise I function on it.

So every time i drink or use any drug I'm on klonopin, and when I drink to get drunk I usually like about 3-3.5 big glasses of red wine or if I'm having beer maybe like 8 beers over the course of an entire night.

I DON'T use phenibut FREQUENTLY, and I'm well aware of the dangers of dependency. I have never taken it more than twice in a single week, and when I do take it I usually like doses ranging between 2,500-3,200. I'd say my average dose these days is about 2,800mgs.

I'm 42, 5'7, 170lbs, strong build and in good shape and eat very healthy and practice intermittent fasting (not while drinking or using drugs) and work out a lot, relatively good tolerance for drinking, but I will say that of course when I get really drunk and hungover the next day my GABA rebound anxiety can get really bad due to the fact that I'm on Klonopin, and yes, it is in fact true that most times I drink while on Phenibut (and obviously also on Klonopin) I will feel like ABSOLUTE HELL the next day, often don't want to get out of bed, feel very tired and often quite anxious, but then the following day it's always over. It's just a much much worse hangover mixed with some nasty anxiety.

So, like, how dangerous REALLY is doing this in terms of it potentially being fatal, leading to respiratory depression or too low a heart rate, or to a lesser extent liver damage? Cause I have never felt myself get short of breath on the combo. The only time I ever got shallow breathing was taking too much Oxycodone and it's my personal belief that the risk of respiratory failure tends to be larger when combining GABA drugs with opioids than just different types of GABA drugs, but i could be wrong there.

Also, I only do this combination like maybe 15 times a year. It's hard to say how often, because I usually am sober and use naltrexone to keep myself away from too much drinking, kratom and phenibut, but when I decide I want to have fun I go off it and I'll do whatever I feel like, but usually months go by without me drinking or taking kratom, and sometimes YEARS go by without phenibut.

Also, is this likely to cause brain damage?

Obviously I know this is VERY unhealthy, so I'm not asking anyone to tell me it's not, but I'm just asking in terms of relatively speaking, if this kind of thing is really dangerous on-the-edge behavior where someone would say they'd be afraid I'd pass out and not wake up or get permanent brain damage or other kinds of damage if I do this like a handful of times a year.

I just want to be sure that the risk isn't too great. Like, I know phenibut is not a joke by ANY means, and I credit all the terrifying stories about phenibut WD as what have kept me from ever letting myself get addicted, and I've never exceeded 4,000mgs like they say on the tub, and that's not fun either. Anything higher than 3,200mgs is too sedating for me, and even that is usually more than I like.

But when i take phenibut for some reason it's really difficult to avoid drinking. Something about it makes me want to drink. So I just want to make sure that this isn't a combo like Oxycontin + Xanax or drinking large amounts of booze on Hydrocodone or something like that, that it's not PROBABLY something that will result in death or permanent organ/brain damage, just for the sake of my brother's comfort, but also for myself as well.

Thanks.

 

[Mycophile]

So no one is going to respond?

I'm sure plenty of people around here have drank on Phenibut and benzos before. Obviously I'm not looking for anyone to say it's just totally fine and healthy LOL, as it's not, but as I see it this is often the place for finding out the level of damage we might be doing to ourselves, whether or not something is truly likely to be lethal, or not quite on that level of danger. I've never felt like I was going to stop breathing or anything, but like i said, some really horrendous GABA rebound the next day, hellish hangovers, anxiety and fatigue the next day, but it's always gone the day after that. I just want to make sure this isn't the kind of combo likely to have me stop breathing or give me brain damage or other permanent damage, more because my brother wanted me to ask, since again, while I know it's not super safe, I also don't feel like I'm really risking my life, and again, it's not a combo I do all that frequently, just a handful of times a year.

Thanks.

 

[Endopharm]

I was on clonny(1.5-3mg daily) for 13 years.

I've always been a VERY heavy drinker until the past few years. I'm talking heavy, in a day I'd drink 8-24 tall boys of beer (8 when working, more when not)

Drastically slowing down drinking was easy. I just felt like shit for about 3 days.

Then I stopped clonazepam and that sucked big time for about 4-6 months. I still have bad days occasionally.

I wouldnt condone it, but it never caused a health scare for me.

FYI I'm about the same size as you and in good shape as well.

 

[Mycophile]

I was on clonny(1.5-3mg daily) for 13 years.

I've always been a VERY heavy drinker until the past few years. I'm talking heavy, in a day I'd drink 8-24 tall boys of beer (8 when working, more when not)

Drastically slowing down drinking was easy. I just felt like shit for about 3 days.

Then I stopped clonazepam and that sucked big time for about 4-6 months. I still have bad days occasionally.

I wouldnt condone it, but it never caused a health scare for me.

FYI I'm about the same size as you and in good shape as well.

Yeah, but remember, I'm asking much more about the Phenibut + alcohol combo than the Klonopin, it's just that I'm also on klonopin so I needed to add that info in there, and my brother asked me to include it because he was worrying about me, so it's THREE GABA drugs, with the main question being about the combo of alcohol and Phenibut, with the additional fact that I take klonopin every day as well.

Like I said, I haven't felt in danger while doing it, though there was one time a few months ago that I went really over board and the next day I was lying in bed all day panicking because my GABA rebound anxiety and hangover were so bad, but this is something to be expected since I already get GABA rebound drinking on klonopin. I mean, you pay the piper, you are going to feel like shit, but the question is to whether or not this is likely to be a lethal combination and/or likely in some way to cause permanent damage to some part of my brain, GABA receptors or internal organs.

There's no way it's not extremely unhealthy, and I know that, but amongst a forum of drug users who have heard some really bad stories and know what combos are super bad, and who have also heard of some less bad stories/combos, I'm just wondering where this combo ranks, and if others would say that I really should NEVER get on drunk on Phenibut, especially seeing as I'm on klonopin.

I like to do it though, even despite the rebound anxiety, but it's not something I do that often, and like I already said, I'm terrified of phenibut addiction, so I don't use it often enough to let that happen, and from all the horror stories I've heard about it, there's NO WAY I'm getting addicted to that shit, so we are really just talking about what this combo is capable of doing to me if done a handful of times a year, give or take of course, cause it's not like I count, but lets just say, 1-2 times a month on average, but I actually don't do it that often, more like i am totally sober for months on end, and then maybe I do it 4 times in a month, etc....who knows, I don't count.

 

[Mycophile]

Also, when you stopped Klonopin, did you get a PROPER taper from a psychiatrist?

Because at some point I want to try to stop and I have a good psychiatrist who says he'll do a VERY slow gradual taper, so I'm hoping the WD won't be as bad as it is for some people.

Believe it or not, I was once TOTALLY IMPROPERLY tapered off klonopin, in fact, no real taper at all by a quack doctor, and somehow I got lucky and had ZERO WD and was off it for 9 months but had to get back on due to my anxiety. Had I used those 9 months to quit caffeine which makes me anxiety so much worse, I get I'd still be off of it, which is my plan for next time, to quit klonopin and caffeine at the same time.

 

[Endopharm]

I've stopped klonopin twice.

1/I switched to 50mg per day of diazepam and slowly tapered off over a 12 month period. Rebound found me back on 1-2mg klonopin.

2/quick, very quick 2-3 month taper on klonopin(like you, shitty new dr.)

The 2nd taper was/is WAAAY worse. Lots of depression, no sleeping, no appetite and some nausea/vomiting. Also a weird buzz in your head that kinda feels like what I'd imagine a small seizure would feel like.

As far as phenibut, I'm no expert as I've only used it with alcohol/klonopin maybe 5 times. All 5 times were super fun/euphoric, but I'd have huge memory lapses the next day and like you, CRAZY anxiety. Also, ive never really said dumb things on alcohol/klonopin, but add in pheni and I've said some REALLY dumb shit.

 

[Mycophile]

I've stopped klonopin twice.

1/I switched to 50mg per day of diazepam and slowly tapered off over a 12 month period. Rebound found me back on 1-2mg klonopin.

2/quick, very quick 2-3 month taper on klonopin(like you, shitty new dr.)

The 2nd taper was/is WAAAY worse. Lots of depression, no sleeping, no appetite and some nausea/vomiting. Also a weird buzz in your head that kinda feels like what I'd imagine a small seizure would feel like.

As far as phenibut, I'm no expert as I've only used it with alcohol/klonopin maybe 5 times. All 5 times were super fun/euphoric, but I'd have huge memory lapses the next day and like you, CRAZY anxiety. Also, ive never really said dumb things on alcohol/klonopin, but add in pheni and I've said some REALLY dumb shit.

Yeah, I'm going to try not worry myself about what it will be like to attempt to get off Klonopin since I can't know for one, and for 2, weird things can happen like how I got no WD last time, so it MIGHT happen again. Best I think to deal with what's really happening when/if it's really happening than scare yourself with others stories, and I think I'll find a way to do it slowly and gradually enough that it won't be so bad. It's not always so bad for everyone.

But if anyone else has an opinion on how dangerous or safe this combo is, feel free to share your opinion.

 

[Skorpio]

I have stopped doing phenibut, but used to combine it with alcohol.

I felt that the sketchy physical effects of phenibut (dehydration and stomach upset) could be magnified by alcohol (especially on the day after). I stopped because I was worried about physical harm from the phenibut, my usage would vary, but at the most frequent phases it was about once a week. No other drug would make my pee as dark as phenibut, and I just got too cumulatively sketched out about urinary health subsequent to that effect to continue using phenibut.

One thing to keep in mind with polypharmacy is the margins between "a good time, " "a bad time," and "a dangerous time" get closer and closer together with each additional drug in the mix.

The combo you are on doesn't raise red flags with regards to respiratory depression risk, but it seems like something that could cause blackouts and extreme sloppieness when drinking.

 

[Mycophile]

I have stopped doing phenibut, but used to combine it with alcohol.

I felt that the sketchy physical effects of phenibut (dehydration and stomach upset) could be magnified by alcohol (especially on the day after). I stopped because I was worried about physical harm from the phenibut, my usage would vary, but at the most frequent phases it was about once a week. No other drug would make my pee as dark as phenibut, and I just got too cumulatively sketched out about urinary health subsequent to that effect to continue using phenibut.

One thing to keep in mind with polypharmacy is the margins between "a good time, " "a bad time," and "a dangerous time" get closer and closer together with each additional drug in the mix.

The combo you are on doesn't raise red flags with regards to respiratory depression risk, but it seems like something that could cause blackouts and extreme sloppieness when drinking.

Thanks for your response.

Ok, so you don't really think it's a huge risk for respiratory depression, which is good, and I agree on the magnifying of negative hangover effects, as well as the fact that I always do get very sloppy when combining the two, and usually there's also some weed and sometimes kratom or nitrous in the mix, but thankfully I don't think any of those latter 3 really have a significant effect on respiratory depression either.

I also try not to use phenibut all that often, and hopefully someday I can get off the klonopin, despite that being a pretty intimidating proposition considering how long I've been on it, but I'd do the slowest most gradual taper imaginable hopefully, and people have pulled that off before, so I try to stay hopeful regarding that.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Risk of death/respiratory depression is quite low here at these doses, almost negligible, especially if you are tolerant to the benzo. I think the greatest risk here is addiction, dangerous behavior while high and chronic GABA downregulation.

I have once had a liver scare, acute damage, in which heavy alcohol + phenibut use was involved. Resulted in a hospital trip. However, there were other drugs/supplements taken that, in retrospect, I put most of the blame on. I will never know what proportion of blame to put on alcohol + phenibut combo in that situation.

I no longer use phenibut, though. I think it's a crappy drug particularly when used recreationally in high dose. Too many side effects, is very harsh on the stomach, and leads to all sorts of nasty neurological side effects.

3.2g is a very high dose. I would highly suggest keeping it under 2.5g. Abusing phenibut at 3g+ has led me to hallucinate, have extreme blackouts and very bizarre/dangerous behavior.

 

[Mycophile]

I felt like reviving this thread because I was considering using this combination again, and yet, after reading multiple studies online, I think it's probably a bad idea. Even though it shouldn't be necessary to ask people's opinions on the combo after reading more on the internet, for some reason I still want to ask more opinions. Because when I take Phenibut I have found it nearly impossible to avoid drinking. It just makes me crave it SO badly, and that is making me think I should quite possibly throw out my Phenibut and maybe not buy it again, but I'd be lying if I said I don't think I will take Phenibut again ever. I very rarely use it, but still, I wanted to open this thread again. Note: I'm down to only 1.5 Klonopin a day, 0.5 during the day and 1.0 at night, and I SKIP IT WHEN I DRINK, so I'm safer in that regard.)

I mean, I've gotten drunk on Phenibut many times, but one time I did it the hangover was so bad I was afraid I was going to have a stroke or something. I didn't, but still, I wonder what was going on in my body. I have also had liver pains while drinking on Phenibut, though they passed.

This study says 3 people have died from Phenibut, one just Phenibut alone, and another 2 mixing alcohol and possibly other substances:

Dangerous abuse of anxiety drug phenibut is on the rise

A growing number of Americans may be having serious reactions after taking phenibut — an unapproved anxiety drug sold in some dietary supplements. That’s the finding of a new study look…

www.baltimoresun.com

This is a story from Reddit where one guy who had combined Phenibut with alcohol many times actually died and came back to life again. I mean, he said he had 8 drinks in one hour, which is very fast drinking, but still, this is scary shit:




Someone also posted this horrible shit:

"I know i post this every chance I get, but someone young (low 20s) who I know lost their life due to heavy alcohol and Phenibut use. She'd only been on the Phenibut for a few months, unclear how much she'd been taking, but even after being discovered in a comatose state maybe within 8 hours of last known interaction, she spent the next 24 hours in the ICU as they fought to save her from systemic organ collapse. In the end, they couldn't save her. And Phenibut was a major factor in her death.

This is an extreme case, of course. But still, I've gotten enough feeling of general "bad juju" surrounding chronic use of alcohol and Phenibut. It seems to accelerate the liver damage by decades."



So yeah, I don't know exactly what I'm asking other than to reopen a general opinion thread regarding how much actual danger there is in an alcohol + Phenibut combination. Regardless of opinions, I will continue to think about it, as too many sources says it's dangerous even though I've always been ok. It bothers me though, because then that means I'm probably going to have to throw out my Phenibut and avoid buying it as I always want to drink when taking it. Obviously dosage of both and many other factors are critical.

People may say "so only 3 people died from the combo? Many more people die from other combos etc." But really, I think I am trying to talk myself into being too scared to use this combo again, although honestly I'd love to believe that it's just fine. I mean, people do overdose and die from just drinking, so maybe that should be considered? I love to mix Phenibut with Kratom though, and I'd hate to lose that, but not at the risk of death from drinking later in the evening after the Kratom wears off. I'd like to believe I'll be fine like in the past, but really, who can say? Any opinions are welcome.

 

[Mycophile]

Does anyone know if anyone on this forum (or does anyone know anyone at all) who has died or come close to death from an alcohol + Phenibut combo?? (only mention if no other strong downers were involved, no need to mention safer stuff like weed, kratom etc. if it happened to be in the mix.)

I just really want a handle on exactly how dangerous the combo is. Cause as you all can see, several sites mention risks of death, coma, internal organ damage from the combo. Then again, more people have probably died from freak accidents doing relatively safe things than from this combo, but does that matter, or is that just the drug user in me/us trying to rationalize?

And does anyone have any advice for someone not wanting to quit either alcohol or Phenibut but thinking that it's probably best to avoid combining them (seeing as I MASSIVELY crave booze when I take Phenibut)? Because what I've noticed is that Phenibut causes me a mixture of enjoyment with some unusual "agitation" from the stimulant side of it, and it's that side that makes me crave alcohol cause it gets rid of that. Most times I've smoked on phenibut I have also been drunk, but is there anyone else who has found weed or any other safer substance to get rid of the "agitation" sometimes caused by Phenibut?

Also, even if you have already commented in the thread you are welcome to comment again and flesh out any former responses.

Note: If this is too many questions for anyone, just skip to the essentials...

 

[brokedownpalace10]

Does anyone know if anyone on this forum (or does anyone know anyone at all) who has died or come close to death from an alcohol + Phenibut combo?? (only mention if no other strong downers were involved, no need to mention safer stuff like weed, kratom etc. if it happened to be in the mix.)

I just really want a handle on exactly how dangerous the combo is. Cause as you all can see, several sites mention risks of death, coma, internal organ damage from the combo. Then again, more people have probably died from freak accidents doing relatively safe things than from this combo, but does that matter, or is that just the drug user in me/us trying to rationalize?

And does anyone have any advice for someone not wanting to quit either alcohol or Phenibut but thinking that it's probably best to avoid combining them (seeing as I MASSIVELY crave booze when I take Phenibut)? Because what I've noticed is that Phenibut causes me a mixture of enjoyment with some unusual "agitation" from the stimulant side of it, and it's that side that makes me crave alcohol cause it gets rid of that. Most times I've smoked on phenibut I have also been drunk, but is there anyone else who has found weed or any other safer substance to get rid of the "agitation" sometimes caused by Phenibut?

Also, even if you have already commented in the thread you are welcome to comment again and flesh out any former responses.

Note: If this is too many questions for anyone, just skip to the essentials...

Anytime you drink on any downer it is more dangerous than not having the downer involved. Some downers are way more forgiving than others. For instance, Valium is way safer to drink on than Barbituates.

As a user the solution is the same for everything, however.

I can't really say this due to harm reduction. The safest and least harmful thing for me to say is, "Don't do it."
But, that can destroy credibility.
So, here it is. This is not a safe combo. But, you're a big boy and people do this.

Anytime you drink on a downer...
1. Take the downer, wait 1/2 hour, then start the drinking. No re-dosing of downers.
2. When you start drinking, go slow for an hour or two to see how much harder it hits.
3. No downer re-dosing. Did I mention that.

 

[Mycophile]

Anytime you drink on any downer it is more dangerous than not having the downer involved. Some downers are way more forgiving than others. For instance, Valium is way safer to drink on than Barbituates.

As a user the solution is the same for everything, however.

I can't really say this due to harm reduction. The safest and least harmful thing for me to say is, "Don't do it."
But, that can destroy credibility.
So, here it is. This is not a safe combo. But, you're a big boy and people do this.

Anytime you drink on a downer...
1. Take the downer, wait 1/2 hour, then start the drinking. No re-dosing of downers.
2. When you start drinking, go slow for an hour or two to see how much harder it hits.
3. No downer re-dosing. Did I mention that.

I'm pretty drunk right now, but yes, good advice.

 

[ColoradoOpiateGirl]

Just choose one or the other if possible.

Yes, combining alcohol and benzos COULD kill you, therefore causing permanent damage.

Alcoholic and pill popper of over 21 years here.

 

[Mycophile]

Just choose one or the other if possible.

Yes, combining alcohol and benzos COULD kill you, therefore causing permanent damage.

Alcoholic and pill popper of over 21 years here.

Yeah, I've actually been on Klonopin for decades for anxiety and drank on it like a billion times without getting anything much worse than some gnarly GABA rebound (well, I once blacked out after getting off Klonopin and being an idiot and got back on the same dose I used to be on without realizing the mistake...).

That combo SHOULD be an issue for many people, but never has been for me due to tolerance, and now I am actually taking less Klonopin than before in an attempt to slowly taper down or off.

But Phenibut is something different and my body isn't as used to it. I've always been fine mixing them and just felt like absolute hell the next day.

I mean we know it's possible for the combo to kill you, but I guess the question is really more "how likely is it?" That question isn't necessarily easy to answer, so it comes down to what risks we are willing to take, which for most of us on this forum is probably more than we should.

 

[ColoradoOpiateGirl]

Yeah I've never taken Phenibut before. I like how we all endanger our lives just to feel better.

 

[Mycophile]

Yeah I've never taken Phenibut before. I like how we all endanger our lives just to feel better.

Lol. Yeah, we need some dark comedy about it.

I still think all drugs should be legal for 18 and over if we aren't driving cars, but that says nothing about what is actually smart to do.

Better in general to stick to weed and other milder substances, but then ironically we have legal alcohol which IMO is actually a hard drug. Go figure.