Investment in others is a total waste of time (for me)

[malakaix]

I'm younger then yourself but i have been through my share of partners and relationships;

I think the issue here is value, i could be wrong though.

When you place too much value into relationship the above scenario with the text message becomes the outcome, because your personal value is now tied up with that person's validation of you. Everything is put into laser focus and scrutinized for the slightest hints of disappointment, over time the issue moves on to one of extreme control and obsession because her rejection of you is essentially your own destruction. After experiencing this even only once, you're more likely to sabotage future potential relationships in order to protect yourself against that past trauma.

I think this is why in red pill circles, it's emphasized to focus your energy into personal pursuits, business and activities that create personal value.. relationships should always be secondary to your primary aim in life - they should compliment your life but never become the central focus. This naturally creates an aloof attitude that attracts women, it's not forced or acted it's just you are driven by goals and ambitions that take precedence over everything else, including women. It doesn't mean you become socially inept, but you don't become completely swept away in the intoxication of the moment.

I've been through all the above, intense intimacy, obsession, extreme attachment, love, detachment, aloofness, playing the game, been unavailable, player lifestyle. It's a damm roller-coaster and can definitely leave you jaded but it's also given me the chance to step back and ask myself what do i really want? And what do i really value..

I don't have experienced with BPD so ignore my post if it's irrelevant, im just drawing on my own experiences.

 

[Lady_Hurricane]

Perhaps. :D But I'd been having relationships, one after another, since 18 - each lasting between 6 months and 3 years at a time - and I came to the realization that it was more hassle than it's worth. But my ambitions play a massive part in this and it got to the point where they took precedence over directing all my energies into just one person. I'm not saying it's impossible for me to "want" a relationship - in fact, the "want" is always there, it is in-built and I have no power over that; I only have power in how I deal with it.

Maybe you are cursed; or maybe the run of bad luck is just part of the path that will get you to where you want to be with someone. I suppose it's just up to you whether you want to keep trying in order to find out if this is all part of some big plan that is "testing" you almost, to see if you can withstand these rejections - and that in the end you'll find someone. Or maybe you won't ever find someone, no matter how hard you try. Or perhaps it's all pointless and never going to happen.

Whichever it is, I think the key is in the persistence of it - fight or flee, sort of thing, regardless of the result. You said you are not one to give up, so I think you will carry on striving for it, even when it seems hopeless.

 

[Nom de Plume]

I'm only 21 years old, and so hopefully it is due to my immaturity that I cannot offer any solace or consolation, rather than because there simply is none to offer.

In my opinion, relationships are seemingly a waste of time, and all the lonely is able to do is come to terms with their loneliness. But, I do believe you've got it better than myself, if that helps any.

I have both an autism spectrum disorder and "giftedness" (gifted with the plight that is intellectual isolation, where you're statistically rare and feel it in a bad way. You know, intelligence of that 145+ IQ sort; the kind that outside academia only seems to work to repel friends, attract bullies, inspire jealous derision, greatly inhibit your sex life, and make one feel as if they were stranded all alone on some godforsaken, barren social landscape).

I feel as if my whole social life has been just one continuous cluster fuck of failures, friendlessness, and female frigidity. I have simply abandoned all efforts to sustain anything resembling a meaningful social relationship. Even though I desperately want to, I just cannot relate to anybody, and so I have simply stopped trying. I doubt relationships are worth the effort, anyway; everybody that's got one seems to think it is displeasing

Loneliness has accompanied me all my life. It's a deep, visceral pain—a terrible pain, of a magnitude like no other. With every tick of the clock, it seeps deeper and grows more poignant, percolating nearer to my soul and consuming my every fiber of being along the way, like a gluttonous worm boring through to the core of an apple and rotting its insides.

While it is indeed a terrible pain to bear—a seemingly incurable cachexia of the spirit—it is nonetheless all I have ever known. Within the presence of this austere discomfort, there is familiarity; a paradoxically comforting sense that everything is as it should be, and that nothing is awry or untoward or out of place.

And it's in that way I feel it to be my one true friend, for it never has left my side nor forsaken me. In this way, it's when I am in the company of others I feel a different loneliness—a stranger, disquieting sense of desolation sets in as I start to feel bereft of my old, dependable friend that is the solitary and people-less form of the condition of abject loneliness.

Through my lack of companionship, I find there buds a companion. I still yearn for some sense of belonging and want nothing greater than to not feel alienated. But as the pain of isolation deepens and grows more insufferable, it is as if a lifelong friend grows nearer, or as if an intimate relationship grows more impassioned.

 

[Vados]

@Nom de Plume

Dude, I am so sorry. Your post mad me sad, and it was difficult to read through. But I owe you at least that much for your willingness to share. Perhaps it might help to let you know that when I was school, I never discriminated when I chose my friends. I'm pretty sure we'd be cool. Not out of some charity for you, or wanting you to help me out with a class, or to pull some prank, but rather because you're articulate, and can offer a intellectually stimulating conversation. These are pretty rare with guys your age. The way I choose to see things is that you are unique, and more mature than the people around your age group. That makes it difficult to relate to them, and they to you.

Your are 21, and definitely too young to throw in the towel just yet. If you continue on the cliché path, then you're going to be banking some serious cash soon, and o-plenty of cheap thrill will flock to your feet

I am also too young to give in. Neither of us is getting any younger. If anything, use what you might look as success for me as something that is coming your way. Things didn't really start happening for me until after I was finished with college.

 

[Vados]

@malakaix

You're not wrong. However, it is something I already recognized many years ago that I do. This is where the BPD comes in. A little something borderlines do called "idealization and devaluation". See, I acknowledge that I will place far too much value into a person (idealization); I won't say relationship because I am not even in a relationship with this person. What happens then is they possess the ability the make or break my day. Something as simple as not returning a text will send me spiraling out of control. The person is then devalued, and my behaviour towards them becomes passive-aggressive, which I am sure they pick up along with any notion of being with me.

Pretty good hindsight? The problem is even though I acknowledge it, I can't do a fucking thing to stop my mind from processing things that way. All I can do, is everything in my power to cope so I don't act in, or act out. It's gotten better. I got one girl I was seriously into to agree to go out with me, but she then she cancelled on me, and bye bye to that. Most recently I had another girl I was really into hang out with me and make efforts on her own to contact me. Somehow I fucked that up too. But things used to be much worse. I'd send a girl flying before words could even come out of my mouth.

Thing is though is I am a very young 38. I have never been married. I have no children. I'm educated, athletic, fit, have a career, a car and a home. I'll be debt free by this time next year, and have six figures put away for retirement. I workout, play basketball, watch Game of Thrones, and even took up fencing. I've learned to speak another language. I visit or call my mother once per week. I've been in long term relationships and learned from them, dated, and had my share of sexual partners. I've also traveled both domestically and overseas. I've done probably more than most people do in their entire lifetimes.

I've done so much of those things alone. The traveling especially was quite difficult to do on my own. I know that I can continue to aspire and put effort into further accomplishments, but the time has come that I want to share my new experiences with someone. I'm tired of always doing things alone.

 

[belfort]

Well, the first thing that lets a borderline know you are indeed a non, is when you say "that sounds like what most people go through." But that thought process I mentioned was an example of how I have trouble being slightly unavailable, and not necessarily the BPD. As I still messaged her back 15 minutes to an hour later.

When pofacedho mentioned to remain slightly unavailable, I know exactly what she's talking about. Girls who have chased me, only chased me harder if I avoided them. I was able to avoid them though because I had no interest them. Of course the reverse is true as well, and I believe it is for many people. It's not an uncommon problem. The issue I strictly pointed out was when the interest is actually, and finally mutual, I do something (or don't do something) to lose it, and I believe she made a great point with the unavailability comment.

I think it is so stupid that I have to play this stupid little fucking game of deliberately avoiding someone I want to be around more than anything or anyone in the world to keep her attention. She's contacting ME! That should tell me that she is thinking about me, and would like to hear from me. Well, that's what I want too, so what the fuck? How do people even fucking hookup if they avoid each other? My longest relationship was a little over two years, and I honestly don't even know or remember how in the hell that even happened.

I'll never settle dude. I've been through too much to do that.

well it IS fucking stupid to have to play the stupid /push/pull games as an adult..it is mind numbing knowing that when i meet a woman im attracted to and i can tell she is attracted to me, that i should be interested in her, yet routinely pull back from her on purpose...knowing you have to play these little games to secure a relationship is just lame..even if you land yourself into a relationship, you still cant be overly nice or or cold or you will lose her..so you still have to play a new set of games once u are in the relationship..ugghh..this is what turns me off towards relationships in general..

btw i do remember a few girls in my past who i chased and they either played hard to get or werent interested at the start but they finally came around to liking me..problem is, that is when i lost interest in them lol..i realized there was nothing special about them and my little fantasy was just smoke and mirrors..

i know what u mean about not settling, i cant just settle either but we might have to, that or just be single..

 

[belfort]

Nom De Plume-simple question, why not just make friends with fellow students, those that share the high intelligence that you have?im sure there are many clubs that cater to people like you..or do you lack the ability to read people socially and form relationships?i agree with vados, at your age, much too young to give up on friendships and relationships in general..

 

[Vados]

well it IS fucking stupid to have to play the stupid /push/pull games as an adult..it is mind numbing knowing that when i meet a woman im attracted to and i can tell she is attracted to me, that i should be interested in her, yet routinely pull back from her on purpose...knowing you have to play these little games to secure a relationship is just lame..even if you land yourself into a relationship, you still cant be overly nice or or cold or you will lose her..so you still have to play a new set of games once u are in the relationship..ugghh..this is what turns me off towards relationships in general..

btw i do remember a few girls in my past who i chased and they either played hard to get or werent interested at the start but they finally came around to liking me..problem is, that is when i lost interest in them lol..i realized there was nothing special about them and my little fantasy was just smoke and mirrors..

i know what u mean about not settling, i cant just settle either but we might have to, that or just be single..

This is a game that I thought would go away as I got older, but it doesn't. I wish I could attribute it to going after younger girls, but it's there whether they're 10 years younger or older. All it says to me is that one person isn't into the other, because my experience tells differently. Two people into each other can't get enough of one another. They are together ALL THE FUCKING TIME. We hear it all the time, "Why do people all of a sudden change when they are in a relationship?" I have luckily been fortunate enough to hook up with girls that have chased me where the attraction was mutual. There really wasn't a chase though. They expressed that they would like to hang out, and it was reciprocated. Then I'd find myself partnered up with someone whose company I actually enjoy.

This just never happens the other way around. Whenever I offer up that I would like to hang out, it simply just stops there. So here I am feeling like I have to wait for a fucking girl to fall in my lap, and hope even more that she is someone that I would be into. I understand that I have BPD, and that I go from 0-60 at an alarmingly fast rate. But I've learned to slow down. Not come off so needy, and let them initiate to ensure interest. I've worked really fucking hard to be able to do that, and I am paid with further disappointment, and the perpetual reality check that if they don't show interest, they ARE NOT INTO YOU. They don't return messages, they're consistently unavailable, and make promises they don't keep... If you keep trying at this point, it's just sad and pathetic. All the while they are very likely fucking someone else. Such an awesome feeling, being by yourself knowing someone else is fucking the person you want.

And yeah, I'd sooner put 2000 bucks into one of those really life like love dolls and marry her than settle for someone I don't really want. That is not fair to either one of us. I should want her every bit as much as she wants me. Not only is sex amazing with a person like this, but the relationship in general is more fulfilling.

 

[Nom de Plume]

@Nom de Plume

Dude, I am so sorry. Your post mad me sad, and it was difficult to read through.

Oh, well I apologise for sounding too dreary. I hadn't predicted my sincerity and candor to make me sound quite so woebegone and lugubrious.

But I owe you at least that much for your willingness to share.

Thank you. It was not an easy confession to divulge.

Perhaps it might help to let you know that when I was school, I never discriminated when I chose my friends. I'm pretty sure we'd be cool. Not out of some charity for you, or wanting you to help me out with a class, or to pull some prank, but rather because you're articulate, and can offer a intellectually stimulating conversation.

People that accept and try to befriend or include a society's pariahs, eccentrics, erratics, wallflowers, waifs, and outcasts—the socially rejected, jilted, blackballed, execrated, or ostracised—are seemingly less common than the shunned, spurned, or sloughed off disconsolate castaways and societal 'dross' with whom they commiserate and provide succor.


In other words, people who act out of altruism and niceness seem more uncommon than the people who need it most. That is to say, the demand for nice people is much greater than the supply of nice people.

These are pretty rare with guys your age. The way I choose to see things is that you are unique, and more mature than the people around your age group. That makes it difficult to relate to them, and they to you.

Yes, I think so too. I recall having been administered my first IQ test (I believe it was the Stanford–Binet scale—it was used for part of some mandatory school-wide intelligence assessment at the time, for identifying children who have special educational requirements (such as needing a slower or faster pace instruction and an appropriately challenging curriculum) when I was around 9 years old.

My score was found to be 158, and my 'mental age' (calculated by applying a little 1st grade arithmetic on the variables of my age and IQ) was estimated at about 16 years old. And so I was on the maturity level of a 16 year old when I was 9. You can imagine how insufferable and toilsome it would be for an average 16 year old stuffed inside a classroom with students nearly half his age and being quizzed and tutored for months on material you either already know or learned before lunch on day one.

Your are 21, and definitely too young to throw in the towel just yet. If you continue on the cliché path, then you're going to be banking some serious cash soon, and o-plenty of cheap thrill will flock to your feet

I sincerely hope you're not wrong. If destined to a life of loneliness, I could always distract myself with wealth.

Besides, as Jane Austen once pointed out:

"It is a truth universally acknowledged that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife."

I shall not live in want of both.

I am also to young to give in. Neither of us is getting any younger. If anything, use what you might look as success for me as something that is coming your way. Things didn't really start happening for me until after I was finished with college.

Again, I sincerely hope you're right.

 

[Vados]

Oh, well I apologise for sounding too dreary. I hadn't predicted my sincerity and candor to make me sound quite so woebegone and lugubrious.

No need to apologize. That statement is coming from someone whom in one bout of laughter; have it turn to cries, and back to laughter again. I'm a source of emotional energy.

People that accept and try to befriend or include a society's pariahs, eccentrics, erratics, wallflowers, waifs, and outcasts—the socially rejected, jilted, blackballed, execrated, or ostracised—are seemingly less common than the shunned, spurned, or sloughed off disconsolate castaways and societal 'dross' with whom they commiserate and provide succor.

In other words, people who act out of altruism and niceness seem more uncommon than the people who need it most. That is to say, the demand for nice people is much greater than the supply of nice people.

I tend to look at people as all good or all bad. I have a lot of trouble with gray areas, but I am learning to find and embrace them. That said, I fully acknowledge that there is good and bad in most people. I've rescued animals and brought people to a euphoric state of mind, but also boned my best friend's wife and disseminated extreme dysphoria to others. Something you don't learn in text books is one person's asshole is another person's prince.

We intrinsically form an opinion of someone based on their demeanor (a verbose euphemism for what common folk call judging). However, people exhibit multiple behaviours, depending on a multitude of reactions towards others. The true rarity is to find those who treat everyone in equal fairness. Even if this person is an utter dick, I'd respect that he is just an utter dick to everyone.

My score was found to be 158, and my 'mental age' (calculated by applying a little 1st grade arithmetic on the variables of my age and IQ) was estimated at about 16 years old. And so I was on the maturity level of a 16 year old when I was 9. You can imagine how insufferable and toilsome it would be for an average 16 year old stuffed inside a classroom with students nearly half his age and being quizzed and tutored for months on material you either already know or learned before lunch on day one.

First off, impressive! Secondly, it definitely makes more sense now. I can't relate being so far beyond classmates in terms of level of maturity, but I can definitely relate being in the minority being the only colored student in an all white school. You're treated differently. Specially, but not in a good way. Don't worry, the rest of the world will 'kind of' catch up.

I sincerely hope you're right.

No hope needed. I am. I would fucking hire you on the spot if I owned a company, or sponsor you if you live in another country. Money won't buy you genuine intimacy with another person, but it will buy you a really shallow, yet ridiculously hot blonde with huge tits, which is a great distraction from lack of the former.

Super rich... Kinda makes it better - Batman from The LEGO Movie

 

[ChipTrippyFox]

In other words, people who act out of altruism and niceness seem more uncommon than the people who need it most. That is to say, the demand for nice people is much greater than the supply of nice people.

Holy crap o.o I've never actually thought of it that way before.

 

[Nom de Plume]

Holy crap o.o I've never actually thought of it that way before.

I cannot tell if you're being sarcastic or sincere with this comment. But at any rate, there are gems embedded within and transmitted through the majority of my comments' textual and subtextual strata.

Text is simply the instrumentality—as excipient—I've chosen to transduce sententious philosophical proverbs and apposite apophthegms from their existence—as incipient—within my mind to their ultimate terminus inside the mind of another for their parturition and apprehension—as recipient.

 

[ChipTrippyFox]

I was being sincere.

 

[Boupstarnm]

You tried the whole fasting thing? The listening to their thoughts? Holding your breath? Lucid dreaming with women in your city? Quitting all drugs? Eating vegan? Running 5 miles per day?

I hear it works. I'm doing the sober thing plus college and exercise. I've never combined all 3. Figure it won't kill me to try it for 30-90 days.

Women want guys like us...they want us to change hahaha....Fuck. It's kinda wack but it all depends how bad you want it. Or how good you fake it...

 

[Vados]

You tried the whole fasting thing? The listening to their thoughts? Holding your breath? Lucid dreaming with women in your city? Quitting all drugs? Eating vegan? Running 5 miles per day?

I hear it works. I'm doing the sober thing plus college and exercise. I've never combined all 3. Figure it won't kill me to try it for 30-90 days.

Women want guys like us...they want us to change hahaha....Fuck. It's kinda wack but it all depends how bad you want it. Or how good you fake it...

This was brought up when my brother in law was visiting from Florida about a week ago. I showed him me "bachelor pad", and he was thoroughly impressed, and mentioned that I must be fucking mad women. I told him I hadn't been laid in months, and haven't been in a relationship for well over a year. He was shocked at first, but then he told me, "You know what the problem is, D? There is nothing wrong with you. There is nothing for them to fix."

I was taken aback a bit, but then what he said made total sense. Dime-a-dozen women out there have some kind of complex where they need to take on a project to mold a man to their ideal mate. Spending countless days in a futile attempt to change them. I'm not going to place the entire problem on women. I do have some really serious intimacy issues, but women with this mentality sure in the fuck don't help. Cast your net when you come across a good man, not before and hope you catch one amongst the filth.

 

[belfort]

This was brought up when my brother in law was visiting from Florida about a week ago. I showed him me "bachelor pad", and he was thoroughly impressed, and mentioned that I must be fucking mad women. I told him I hadn't been laid in months, and haven't been in a relationship for well over a year. He was shocked at first, but then he told me, "You know what the problem is, D? There is nothing wrong with you. There is nothing for them to fix."

I was taken aback a bit, but then what he said made total sense. Dime-a-dozen women out there have some kind of complex where they need to take on a project to mold a man to their ideal mate. Spending countless days in a futile attempt to change them. I'm not going to place the entire problem on women. I do have some really serious intimacy issues, but women with this mentality sure in the fuck don't help. Cast your net when you come across a good man, not before and hope you catch one amongst the filth.

im not sure the majority of women want a man they can fix(maybe some very nice girls do) but most if not all women want a challenge!they dont want a nice guy who will be at their side as soon as they snap their fingers..they want a man that they think could be out cheating and fucking many other women but isnt..as a guy, we always have to keep women in a tested state, we have to keep them wanting and this is tiring..some guys like playing this game but i despise it...this is why many women claim they cheat, that they are bored in their relationships, the man stopped teasing her or stopped providing excitement....

how exactly does a good looking guy with a good job have low self esteem?this guy has plenty of women hitting on him yet still has bottom of the barrel self esteem issues? it doesnt make sense to me

 

[Vados]

im not sure the majority of women want a man they can fix(maybe some very nice girls do) but most if not all women want a challenge!they dont want a nice guy who will be at their side as soon as they snap their fingers..they want a man that they think could be out cheating and fucking many other women but isnt..as a guy, we always have to keep women in a tested state, we have to keep them wanting and this is tiring..some guys like playing this game but i despise it...this is why many women claim they cheat, that they are bored in their relationships, the man stopped teasing her or stopped providing excitement....

how exactly does a good looking guy with a good job have low self esteem?this guy has plenty of women hitting on him yet still has bottom of the barrel self esteem issues? it doesnt make sense to me

My comment is experience based, which is always subject for rebuttal but I think we are using two different words to describe the same situation. Yours was chosen better A challenge makes more sense, but the inexplicable need to fix a broken man provides the same challenge you speak of, which is why it is alluring. Some women are just totally and completely drawn into a guy who is just fucking hopeless.

As for the last inquiry: I think I just have screws lose man, and some things just don't work right. Yes, girls flirt with me, and historically speaking, I really haven't had a whole lot of trouble acquiring the interest of women. Just not THE woman, and even if I do get that interest, I freak out and sabotage it. Then to cope, I bone someone I'm not really all that interested in.