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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Intravenous suboxone taper help?

J

Jowieseff

Bluelighter
Joined
May 11, 2020
Messages
62
Okay, guys my friend made a major mistake.
Long story short hes been shooting suboxone like 6 to 8 mgs x3 daily.
it use to be 1 mg or 2 mgs but he had some relapses with heroin and the heroin habit became more and more because of his suboxone tolerance then he would switch back and need more suboxone.(ViceVersa) he thought he was all doing well ish, althought he understood that he was unusually very physically and mentally dependent on these high doses every day.

well, a few weeks later, about 30 days, after some tapering his veins are becoming very weak and the major ones are starting to not let him dose as much as he use too, he spends 10 to 30 minutes looking for a vein. and its all just becoming a major disaster.
so, he is asking for some help, possibly a taper schedule or some sort from somebody knowledgeable to get back down to insuflating instead of iving.

he would be extremely appreciated for some sort of crisis help at the moment. if any is available.

hes getting down on his mg's very slowly. when he tries to compensate for an IV shot with insuflation of say 16 mgs it seems that hes still going through stomach problems and anxiety.

thanks for anybody in advance who has some sort of helpful advice for him!
 
Jowieseff said:
Okay, guys my friend made a major mistake.
Long story short hes been shooting suboxone like 6 to 8 mgs x3 daily.
it use to be 1 mg or 2 mgs but he had some relapses with heroin and the heroin habit became more and more because of his suboxone tolerance then he would switch back and need more suboxone.(ViceVersa) he thought he was all doing well ish, althought he understood that he was unusually very physically and mentally dependent on these high doses every day.

well, a few weeks later, about 30 days, after some tapering his veins are becoming very weak and the major ones are starting to not let him dose as much as he use too, he spends 10 to 30 minutes looking for a vein. and its all just becoming a major disaster.
so, he is asking for some help, possibly a taper schedule or some sort from somebody knowledgeable to get back down to insuflating instead of iving.

he would be extremely appreciated for some sort of crisis help at the moment. if any is available.

hes getting down on his mg's very slowly. when he tries to compensate for an IV shot with insuflation of say 16 mgs it seems that hes still going through stomach problems and anxiety.

thanks for anybody in advance who has some sort of helpful advice for him!
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Hi J, Sounds like you are up a tree with hound dog Sub barking at you every few hours! I'm curious, did it feel very good to inject 8 mg of Sub?
 
Okay, so IVing subuxone is retarded but you can do it safest way possible if you wanna do it.
Use the turbofilters. The microfilters. The ones which remove 99% of bacteria and shit.
This way you get only liquid, not the fucking film slime.
Get subutex if you can, it's much better to shoot up, since it's cleaner. It also doesn't contain naloxone.
I think your friend should move to using in mouth instantly. Maybe even plug, but the way he's going sounds prettyyy bad.
 
Why can't he partially ween from route of administration first if he's struggling with that portion. Possibly, 1/2 sublingual and 1/2 IV for a few days, and then just slowly phase out the IV use. Then, once the IV use is abated, then taper dosage down if needed. Baby steps in this case seems critical, I can't even fathom what state 24 mg of intravenous buprenorphine per day has done.
 
I have a lot of experience IVing suboxone. I can relate that for whatever reason, IV is the best route even with no rush. It reached a point where I could only IV suboxone and no other method satisfied me or even made me somewhat "normal" or not anxious.

I would suggest going down to 1 shot a day, 8 mg. for a week, then 4 mg, one day a week. I would hope maybe you can still manage one shot a day? At that amount it really won't damage veins and you should hopefully still not feel sick as you drop down.
 
^ Definitely. I had similar thoughts as well. Although IV has almost 2x as much bioavailability, so there is that component as well.
 
@Deru even though when I was 20-21 years old I was smashing coca like there was no tomorrow. 30-40 shots every night....fuck me Idk how I'm still alive but oh well, at least other people can read all the things that i've done and avoid going through all that painful process.
 
nznity said:
he should just switch to oral route for HR's sake. I'm cringing at the thought of that person shooting up suboxone 3x a day.
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Yeah I had to stop because I was getting blurry vision and my eyes were hurting right after my shots. Clearly a terrible sign of shooting up a orange goo that should never be in your veins anyways
 
nznity said:
@Deru even though when I was 20-21 years old I was smashing coca like there was no tomorrow. 30-40 shots every night....fuck me Idk how I'm still alive but oh well, at least other people can read all the things that i've done and avoid going through all that painful process.
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I hear you bro, my bathroom walls would look like a murder scene after a few day's binge of non stop cocaine injections. The further into the binge, the further it was impossible to hit. We turned ourselves into pin cushions. I remember spending hours in that state finding every spec of blood and cleaning it off the walls so my wife wouldn't see it. Ah, man, the craziness of it all.
 
OpiateKiller said:
Yeah I had to stop because I was getting blurry vision and my eyes were hurting right after my shots. Clearly a terrible sign of shooting up a orange goo that should never be in your veins anyways
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shit man, you can go blind when you shoot pills yeah i've read that before. Thank god you stopped.
 
Deru said:
I hear you bro, my bathroom walls would look like a murder scene after a few day's binge of non stop cocaine injections. The further into the binge, the further it was impossible to hit. We turned ourselves into pin cushions. I remember spending hours in that state finding every spec of blood and cleaning it off the walls so my wife wouldn't see it. Ah, man, the craziness of it all.
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I'm never gonna forget that 40g bender I did in 8 days, From Sunday til NEXT week's monday. By Tuesday I was woken up by a slap on the face from 3 guys that took me to rehab. I dropped 25 pounds in that week.
 
nznity said:
I'm never gonna forget that 40g bender I did in 8 days, From Sunday til NEXT week's monday. By Tuesday I was woken up by a slap on the face from 3 guys that took me to rehab. I dropped 25 pounds in that week.
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You definitely got me beat on quantity (and quality too, I know you were getting that fire!) Most I could afford was 3 grams per day, in addition to 2 grams of heroin. After I lost my job, I cashed out my 401k and intended to go out in a blaze of glory. I remember sitting in my bathroom, locked, I was supposed to be to rehab hours ago, half my family on the other side of the door while I'm shooting up cocaine and heroin every 30 seconds. I'd make it to day 3 in detox and then just go AMA. I honestly would have killed myself, my ability to control myself was completely gone, had I not got a blood infection and endocarditis and became septic. I just became too sick to even figure out how to place a call to get more, it is crazy remembering how low of a point I was in my life. I had lost any will to survive at that point, every day was filled with pain and misery and sickness. And yeah, I mean injecting 24 mg of Suboxone sounds so incredibly unsustainable as well, especially using the strips. Whatever temporary pain it might take to at least stop injecting is nothing compared to life long damage to one's body.
 
Deru said:
You definitely got me beat on quantity (and quality too, I know you were getting that fire!) Most I could afford was 3 grams per day, in addition to 2 grams of heroin. After I lost my job, I cashed out my 401k and intended to go out in a blaze of glory. I remember sitting in my bathroom, locked, I was supposed to be to rehab hours ago, half my family on the other side of the door while I'm shooting up cocaine and heroin every 30 seconds. I'd make it to day 3 in detox and then just go AMA. I honestly would have killed myself, my ability to control myself was completely gone, had I not got a blood infection and endocarditis and became septic. I just became too sick to even figure out how to place a call to get more, it is crazy remembering how low of a point I was in my life. I had lost any will to survive at that point, every day was filled with pain and misery and sickness. And yeah, I mean injecting 24 mg of Suboxone sounds so incredibly unsustainable as well, especially using the strips. Whatever temporary pain it might take to at least stop injecting is nothing compared to life long damage to one's body.
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holy shit man, i empathize with you on the pain. In one of my last cocaine benders I went batshit crazy after having a 3-4min seizure. Broke my 3rd floor window that faces the street and jumped out.
 
Okay guys thanks for the response.
I appreciate them all.
My concern is if I move to sublingual suboxone as if it were no problem I'd be sick most definitely because for some reason shooting is way, way...way stronger than sublingual.

I may be a needle fiend but really I think what got me to this point was that I was shooting 2 to 3 grams of heroin a day on my last run and I was so deathly sick and throwing up that sublingual suboxone did not do anything and 24 hours off heroin was getting very violent so I said fuck it and shot 3 mgs of subs and after mild precipitated was i final stopped throwing up.

Then the next week after that I felt so drained and sick I could barely leave t he bed and realized hey the more i shoot these suboxone the better I start to feel and the more mobilized I could be.

Then I started taking more every time I had a slight feeling of anxiousness. Mostly because I'm in a mee relationship with my girlfriend and we now live together.


This isn't to justify the stupidity I've created for my self just the "rationalization" in my mind at the time that got me here.

I am pretty stupid to forget that maybe my veins wouldn't cope with this every day for the next few years.

Anyways thank God I've only been on suboxone them for about 5 months.


Anyways the part about doing one 8 mg shot per day, kind of scares me.


Today I have cut down and counted what I'm taking its about 24 mgs IV. I also bought "Short" needles instead of longs (which I feel is part of why my veins got this way anyways). I was only able to get off brand shitty long points due to covid at the time.


Is there any correlation with long tip needles blowing out veins ?


Thanks guys and plz if you have any more advice dont hesitate to PM me.

Cheers!
 
I've only been on subs a few times over the years, methadone once. Always orally as prescribed.

I always thought they put the naloxone in subs to prevent IV use? Can you still catch a buzz? I never felt shit from subs, but also never tried to abuse them.

I'm curious...
 
Jowieseff said:
My concern is if I move to sublingual suboxone as if it were no problem I'd be sick most definitely because for some reason shooting is way, way...way stronger than sublingual
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Because it is way, way, way stronger. The problem is you are so high on your intravenous dosage, normally what you could do is take more buprenorphine sublingually to get the same amount to your arterial blood after bioavailability. In your case, you would have to take almost 40 mg sublingual to get the same amount into your bloodstream. So, unfortunately, yes, you will have to taper and experience a bit of unpleasantness. But, if you do it slow, it should be almost unnoticeable and it is critical to your health to do so.
 
could a guy take 16 mg normally and unsufflate 8 mg a day to bring your bioavailability up a little closer to where you need to be? instead of continuing with the needle use i would opt for a different roa to attain higher bioavailability and then taper down to a reasonable dose. then make the switch to fully sublingual roa and continue tapering off or maintain. whatever the end goal may be.
 
Just snort all of it? When I got on bupe maintenance (max 4mg though), most went through my nose as I didn't like to keep the stuff below my tongue for so long - and snorting just feels good. As it's a sublingual pill, there shoudn't be any nasty talcum filler in it either but watch out for suboxone which contain naloxone and these you certainly don't want to either snort nor inject.

I keep repeating this, sorry, but the gold standard about opioid withdrawal are and remain NMDA antagonists. You can literally skip most of the discomfort by taking e.g. higher doses of memantine for like 2 weeks, or even the OTC dextromethorphan in doses just slightly above recommendation and below full dissociation. Add in some loperamide if you get diarrhea and something for sleep the first days and you might not need to skip any working days!

There's a ton of papers about this on PubMed, it's a direct interaction between opioid & nmda receptors instead of just masking withdrawal but unfortunately not many doctors are aware about this and willing to help people avoiding withdrawal. Since I got to know and experienced this, opioids really lost much of their fears.

Tramadol or kratom are other options and these can even be combined with NMDA antags if your tolerance is too high for them alone to work (don't know the exact limits, if they exist and where, but it worked fine from 200mg morphine (was on 200-600mg for at least two years) to zero on the next day w/ memantine).
 
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