Heroin Injecting suboxone after heroin bad feeling??

[Oak cliff_23]

Okay, so I have a question. I injected suboxone at least 24 hrs from last dose of heroin. And i imidiatley started to feel like crap. My stomach flipped and I was sweating and I was really cold. Everything sounded so crisp (tree sounds)(I was outside) and weird. But it only lasted not more than 15 min. And then I felt normal And yes I was already pretty sick before shooting the sub. So I was wondering if I went through a tip of PWD or it was just me. Has anyone experience that or similar? Or why it happened?
By the way. I did it again after and didnt feel anything bad .

Thanks .

 

[JessFR]

Subuxone has naloxone in it.

If I had to take a guess, I would say that you were far enough away from the heroin to not get precipitated withdrawal but that the naloxone DID cause withdrawal...

For about 15 minutes until the buprenorphine had knocked the naloxone off your opioid receptors, ending the withdrawal.

That's my theory anyway. Buprenorphine has a higher opioid affinity than naloxone. It's possible the naloxone caused withdrawal since you injected it, but the bupe wound up overpowering it so to speak.

 

[Oak cliff_23]

Subuxone has naloxone in it.

If I had to take a guess, I would say that you were far enough away from the heroin to not get precipitated withdrawal but that the naloxone DID cause withdrawal...

For about 15 minutes until the buprenorphine had knocked the naloxone off your opioid receptors, ending the withdrawal.

That's my theory anyway. Buprenorphine has a higher opioid affinity than naloxone. It's possible the naloxone caused withdrawal since you injected it, but the bupe wound up overpowering it so to speak.

Ok I see what you mean, does make sense too.
The weird part is that I always go through that small 15 min pain/discomfort phase everytime i inject suboxone after at least a day or even hours of my last IV dose of Black tar heroin . But always being sure enough that iam dope sick to prevent precipitated WD. But I do IV the Sub to feel better quicker than taking it orally. But iam not gonna lie those 15 min feels like forever and feels really really bad.

I appreciate your input by the way !

 

[Keif' Richards]

I like Jess's hypothesis on this one. I think it makes sense. It's for this reason that I never recommend trying to induct Buprenorphine through the intravenous route, whether it is a Naloxone combination product or not. There is a lot of room for shit to go wrong.

 

[JessFR]

It's funny that they include naloxone with bupe at all.

Some time back when i first realized bupe has a much higher affinity with naloxone I thought to myself, but then what's the point of adding it to buprenorphine? It'll be displaced by the bupe and be ineffective as a deterent.

I then thought, I must be missing something, surely giant pharmaceutical companies who's entire business is based in chemistry and pharmacology wouldn't miss something that obvious?

I have since read studies casting doubt on the usefulness of combining bupe with naloxone for exactly this reason. Including accounts of exactly this phenomenon.

Lesson learned, never assume that just it's true just because it's a big pharmaceutical company and it's accepted by piles of doctors that it's true even when it makes no sense. Humans are supremely lazy and stupid and can fuck up anything.

 

[TheAcetylationGame]

It's funny that they include naloxone with bupe at all.

Some time back when i first realized bupe has a much higher affinity with naloxone I thought to myself, but then what's the point of adding it to buprenorphine? It'll be displaced by the bupe and be ineffective as a deterent.

I then thought, I must be missing something, surely giant pharmaceutical companies who's entire business is based in chemistry and pharmacology wouldn't miss something that obvious?

I have since read studies casting doubt on the usefulness of combining bupe with naloxone for exactly this reason. Including accounts of exactly this phenomenon.

Lesson learned, never assume that just it's true just because it's a big pharmaceutical company and it's accepted by piles of doctors that it's true even when it makes no sense. Humans are supremely lazy and stupid and can fuck up anything.

So true. The naloxone thing always appeared entirely unnecessary and potentially harmful to patients who don’t tolerate naloxone well for whatever reason.

 

[Xorkoth]

Someone once told me it was for patent reasons, in order to be able to offer it as a different medication than just buprenorphine. Though I am not sure if that is true.

 

[TheAcetylationGame]

Someone once told me it was for patent reasons, in order to be able to offer it as a different medication than just buprenorphine. Though I am not sure if that is true.

I guess the truth is probably a combination of all these different reasons