Information on queen annes lace/wild carrot

[Streetcow]

ok this request might sound strange but does anyone know about queen anns lace's status as a stimulant????

while doing research the other day I stumbled across an article talking about the medicinal properties of queen anns lace (which there is apparently alot quite skeptical but I go on the ideology don't knock it until you've tried it so I consider everything) and so I'm reading it because I'm bored and what do you know

the article clearly states it is a stimulant

queen anns lace is a noxious weed

Time to do research

so I look into it excited but skeptical and well I found lots of websites mentioning it (I will provide links) but like my bindweed research

EVERYTHING WAS SO FUCKING VAUGE (I absolutely hate it when that happens but its a norm at this point)

so after a couple hours worth of research effort and coffee I decided I would take it to the forums

(of course I will be trying it because of the fact that it has notorious use as a medicine so as long as I identify it and don't pick poison water hemlock which is a look a like I will try it and try noting potential psychoactive effects not expecting much but it is worth a try)

so does anyone know anything??????

links:
http://www.carrotmuseum.co.uk/wild.html
http://www.specialtyproduce.com/produce/Wild_Carrot_Queen_Annes_Lace_12031.phphttp://
healingherbinfo.com/index.php/herbs/herb/queen_annes_lace
www.pinterest.com/pin/382524562071588465/
http://theherbhound.blogspot.ca/2013/06/queen-annes-lace.html
(ect and yes there is more check out the links some actually provide chemicals and claim some crazy shit like that its a MAOI inhibitor and that its used for abortions)

-Streetcow

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Don't go there. I rally, really do NOT recommend fucking about with this plant. If it DOES have central stimulant effects they are almost certainly of a kind you wish to avoid (such as GABAa inverse agonism, potentially)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcarinol
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20206138 either falcarinol, falcarindiol or both act as covalently binding inverse agonists at CB1 type cannabinoid receptors. Binds CB2 also, presumably as inverse agonist but intriguingly,only covalently binds CB1. Induces release of or upregulates production of, proinflammatory cytokines and chemokines.

Compare the structures of falcarinol (syn. carotatoxin) and falcarindiol with circutoxin and oenanthetoxin from water hemlock and hemlock water dropwort. both of these are GABAa inverse agonists, and very, very poisonous, one bite of the root of either plant is enough to kill a cow, and often has done, since the plants (the water hemlocks) often grow on riverbanks and the roots become exposed via the action of water erosion upon the soil in which the plants are growing.

Methinks concentrating the compounds in wild carrot for ingestion is a very bad idea.

 

[Streetcow]

Don't go there. I rally, really do NOT recommend fucking about with this plant. If it DOES have central stimulant effects they are almost certainly of a kind you wish to avoid (such as GABAa inverse agonism, potentially)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcarinol
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20206138 either falcarinol, falcarindiol or both act as covalently binding inverse agonists at CB1 type cannabinoid receptors. Binds CB2 also, presumably as inverse agonist but intriguingly,only covalently binds CB1. Induces release of or upregulates production of, proinflammatory cytokines and chemokines.

Compare the structures of falcarinol (syn. carotatoxin) and falcarindiol with circutoxin and oenanthetoxin from water hemlock and hemlock water dropwort. both of these are GABAa inverse agonists, and very, very poisonous, one bite of the root of either plant is enough to kill a cow, and often has done, since the plants (the water hemlocks) often grow on riverbanks and the roots become exposed via the action of water erosion upon the soil in which the plants are growing.

Methinks concentrating the compounds in wild carrot for ingestion is a very bad idea.

hello limpet chicken

well I'm a bit skeptical to your claims

not to say they are false buuuuuttttttttt there are a HUGE like I'm talking HHHHUUUUUGGGGGEEEEEE number of health nuts that promote it and say they eat the carrot all the time and SSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOO many many sites say it is edible

now this is interesting because I have seen in a couple websites saying that it is very mildly poisonous but not enough to do any real harm also claiming the same thing about skin reactions and not to let it touch you

so no I don't think it is poisonous I think the thing is the concentrations are so low that they can't poison you at the levels they are in wild carrot but your claims on hemlock are unfortunately and undoubtedly true

also could you provide info on all of the ways it is a stimulant??? I'm still curious about it (not just inverse agonism I need all the juicy details because I'm a bit too work logged to do all of the measures myself isolating the chemicals and testing properties WWWWWAAAAYYYYYYY too much work)

thanks for the interest in the thread

-Streetcow

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

What I am talking about, is not simply eating the plant, but Immeannr as olating the ac rive comowunds and takinf the purified substance(s)

AFAIK the root can be eaten (I a nt cerrtainen =()

But the structure si wayyyyyyyyyto clso e ot cicutxin Annd oenanthetoxinnx and these arrrreh moost vvrultevirutnel poisons, mere use 0f a portion of stem as a toy whistll e has gbeenn fatal.

 

[asecin]

limpet, i didnt understand what you said there...

i was checking on falcarinol, seems like its only toxic in high doses but in moderate to low doses seems very good anti-cancer agent. it seems to be present in significant enough amounts in domesticated carrot, why bother with wild carrot? or whatever other contents might be, im sure they are also present in regular carrots.
im curious tho, how many carrots would it take to consume toxic amounts of falcarinol???

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Shit....damn I was nodding hard as hell when I wrote that.

What I'm saying is its likely present in greater quantities in wild than domesticated carrots. And extracting to concentrate the 'actives' in there would be a bad idea since its so close to cictoxin and oenanthetoxin, the toxins from water hemlock and
hemlock water dropwort. These two, along with aconite are the deadliest plants found in the british isles, at least established or native. Not counting fungi. There was an incident with one of the two water hemlocks, where someone used a piece of stem
to make a toy whistle. Contact with the mouth killed the subject.

Cicutoxin also, has been evaluated with respect to finding anticancer agents. And what I was trying to say, before morphine interrupted things was that the structure of carotatoxin/falcarinol is really close to that of both the toxins in hemlock water
dropwort and water hemlock. And the wild carrot is also an allergen. Not really something one would want to fuck about with trying to get stimulant effects.

Best guess is that any stimulant effects are of the GABA antagonist type, something like bemegride perhaps. Not something I'd wish to take even if I didn't have seizures at times. Or did have, before I got on chlormethiazole.

 

[Jabberwocky]

also could you provide info on all of the ways it is a stimulant???

Like LC said -- GABA antagonism -- meaning glutamate stimulation, hyperexcitability and epileptic type seizures

Hell, you may get the DT's

 

[Streetcow]

well this conversation is EXTREMELY split

on one side we are getting anti cancer agent and generally good like the health nut websites have said and a good possibility for it being a stimulant

and on the other side being related to toxic chemicals and being singled out as generally a bad idea

(EVERYTHING is poisonous in higher levels to call it poisonous it has to be abled to kill someone in relatively small amounts of whatever it is wether plant material or the actual chemical thats my take on it anyway I'm guessing others have different definitions of it of course the actual definition is too vague to use which is "[FONT=arial, sans-serif-light, sans-serif](of a substance or plant) causing or capable of causing death or illness if taken into the body." WAYYYYYYYY to gauge (rough dosage is needed) )

in terms of glutamate receptor stimulation yes It doesn't look good it looks like its divided while certain stimulation of glutamate can be good or bad its mostly the AMOUNT of stimulation

*sigh* these days I have to be so wary when people tell me somethings poisonous because usually it just gets a bad rap because people have died from stupidity of use, its related to a more poisonous chemical or its more unknown and because of it there so so much bias from people who aren't willing to take risks

of course because of this I may have a bias we need someone to answer this with no strong feeling ether way to answer this question

-Streetcow[/FONT]

 

[asecin]

streetcrow must be quite desperate if he seeks stimulant like high from various shit like wild carrots. considering there are hundreds of stimulants, legal and illegal drug or herbal based all over the net. just someone not lazy enough to look...

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Not glutamate, not directly. At least going by the structure. GABAa inverse agonist is likely. Bear in mind with the anticancer stuff, that cicutoxin and possibly (probably) oenanthetoxin have been investigated for this.

GABAa inverse agonists ARE stimulating. In that they are anxiogenic, convulsant poisons for the most part. Although some subunit-selective inverse agonists have been trialled as nootropics they are not accepted, and for good reason I bet.

 

[asecin]

a lot of toxins are anti-cancer. seriously, lets ingest them all? tobacco smoke, ethanol, pour them on cancer cells, those fuckers will shrink much faster than giving them vitamin c or e.

anyway, there are people who claim nutmeg is a good high, so why not this crap too? i say, the thread starter should go for it, and maybe add nutmeg (as spicey mixture to it)

 

[Streetcow]

streetcrow must be quite desperate if he seeks stimulant like high from various shit like wild carrots. considering there are hundreds of stimulants, legal and illegal drug or herbal based all over the net. just someone not lazy enough to look...

*sigh* do I have to explain my research to everyone???

do I even need a reason to do this other than science???

anyway my research is to find more available drugs for drug users that are cheap effective and also so plentiful that the police couldn't ban if they tried because the plant would be everywhere that it was grown

oh and by the way I'm not desperate or even looking for a high myself I'm an ex heroin addict thats 3 months clean thank you very much which saying I'm desperate for stimulants doesn't make sense

-Streetcow

 

[asecin]

well, kratom is still legal and its 10x better than heroin in sense it can be antioxidant plus stimulant AND opiate depending on type and dose just to help you further with your search for cheap legal plentiful drugs/herbs

 

[Streetcow]

well, kratom is still legal and its 10x better than heroin in sense it can be antioxidant plus stimulant AND opiate depending on type and dose just to help you further with your search for cheap legal plentiful drugs/herbs

trust Iv tried kratom a couple times myself at first I thought it was just over hyped but its actually quite nice

the problem being kratom is a tree not a plant and trees take years and years to grow I mean with the years mentality I might as well grow peruvian torch because its semi legal up here

kratom would be alot better if it was easily grow take the poppy for example

it is perfect its invasive ,easy to grow,EFFECTIVE,and just about everywhere

while police try as hard as they can to stop it from happening they can't ever entirely stop it

while its wonderful everyone including myself knows the dangers of opiates and it can be unsafe

I'm looking for something more safe something like weed where you would have to consume or smoke or do whatever in twice your own body weight to die

also more variety for people too chose helps

-streetcow

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Lets not forget, of course, that a great many anti-cancer drugs are active BECAUSE they are cytotoxic. Take mustard 'gas' for instance. The '-mustine' series of drugs were discovered because of the profound leukopenia that was observed gassed batt
lefield casualties.


And no, you don't have to explain your research but its always nice when people do. At least, for people such as myself who actually give a shit and are interested. HOWEVER, this plant, is not 'it'. Look elsewhere. Also consider in your research aims, and
IMO they are good aims in principle, consider the mentality of street drug users. I told a guy recently for example, who had heard of 2C-B, about 2C-D, and he said he thought other users wouldn't be interested, because of unfamiliarity (I paraphrase, and removed the..err...'choice euphemisms' as spoken by the guy I was at the time scoring skag off.

If you personally experiment with this plant, have someone with you at all times, have phenobarb available and have your watchman know what to do in case of seizure. And have them let the paramedics know what has been ingested and how it likely acts, also have them make the comparison to (water) hemlock and hemlock water dropwort Oenanthe and Cicuta, containing, respectively, oenanthetoxin and cicutoxin, I forget which is named 'dropwort' but it is either Cicuta virosa or Oenanthe crocata, both being amongst the most lethal plants in either the british isles or the N.american continent. Given that falcarinol/carotatoxin is in structure extremely close to these polyhydric, polyyne aliphatic alcohol toxins it is at best, inadvisable to attempt
to source a stimulant of any kind from queen anne's lace. This is infinitely more likely to poison than to intoxicate in the preferable sense of the word. Have you yet compared the structures of carotatoxin (falcarinol..and TBH, something tells me that
the synonym for falcarinols including the epithet 'toxin' may, might, potentially just maybe mean that its something that one should not ingest) But do, do look at the relative structures for the three compounds, carotatoxin/falcarinol (one and the same entity, oenanthetoxin and cicutoxin, as well as read the wiki article for Cicuta (the genus), that'll put you off in no time flat.

And I agree with your intent, more variety, and something more safe like.....

But the latter especially you WILL NOT find, in this plant,

 

[LandsUnknown]

I don't think it would get you high, since I can't see anything about it for that. I do see some stuff indicating that it might be bad for the kidneys and nerves. Whether or not it has any use for other purposes, I have utterly no idea. From what I read, it won't get you high though. It looks a sketchy health wise though from what I read. If you're studying or doing something else along those lines where you need to stay up, you could always just drink energy drinks. Always worked for me if I was looking to stay awake. Then, there are also things around at different vitamin stores. I drank this stuff with something in it called yohimbe from this one store, and it did something other than just the caffeine. The stuff basically kept me up the entire night, and I wasn't really even tired or anything at all. Not really "recreational" for me, as stimulants aren't something I'm interested in, but it did get me completely wired as the bottle said it would.

 

[Streetcow]

iv pretty much concluded that the plant will not go through anymore trials it doesn't look like a candidate from my recent experience thanks to all who participated in the discussion

-streetcow

 

[Solipsis]

Sorry but considering a plant a candidate as 'abundantly available drug to the masses' when it has a deadly lookalike is like the epitome of bad HR in my opinion. It has nothing to do with whether you are capable of making this species determination yourself, but rather you cannot and should not encourage 'the masses' to try and make this determination.

Same with edible mushrooms (Limpet might chime in here :D ): unless you are a very experienced mushroom hunter who really knows his shit you should only hunt and eat mushrooms that do not have deadly lookalikes. It's okay if there are lookalikes but you have to be able to afford making a mistake as a layman. By definition the masses are mostly laymen.

It doesn't really matter IMO if you don't need a microscope to make the determination and consider the lookalike to have pretty telltale signs of being different. The masses are also full of idiots, you have to assume here. It's a matter of principle.

Hopefully you will keep that in mind if there are more candidates.

 

[Streetcow]

Sorry but considering a plant a candidate as 'abundantly available drug to the masses' when it has a deadly lookalike is like the epitome of bad HR in my opinion. It has nothing to do with whether you are capable of making this species determination yourself, but rather you cannot and should not encourage 'the masses' to try and make this determination.

Same with edible mushrooms (Limpet might chime in here :D ): unless you are a very experienced mushroom hunter who really knows his shit you should only hunt and eat mushrooms that do not have deadly lookalikes. It's okay if there are lookalikes but you have to be able to afford making a mistake as a layman. By definition the masses are mostly laymen.

It doesn't really matter IMO if you don't need a microscope to make the determination and consider the lookalike to have pretty telltale signs of being different. The masses are also full of idiots, you have to assume here. It's a matter of principle.

Hopefully you will keep that in mind if there are more candidates.

yeah I agree here there is a big problem with it and that it isn't a viable option

and that it isn't a good plant to use for recreational use

Streetcow

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Yes. Quite true that. If your going to fuck about eating something thats either possessed of lethal lookalikes, it pays to confirm the ID beyond doubt and to avoid certain genera of fungi entirely. I still won't eat anything in Cortinarius, even though those with the slow acting nephrotoxin orellanin should fluoresce under UV light. And same goes for toxic species that can be eaten with special preparation. Like the blusher (Amanita rubescens), that needs boiling twice in two changes of water before cooking. I eat fly agaric too, after a similar leaching process. But would only advise most people use it in cooking dried, powdered and used to spice up meat dishes (really, once its cured its absolutely wonderful in chili con carne, I love it, preferably with some peppery boletus added in whilst cooking)

I'd count myself as experienced (been at it since age 3, according to my old man) and theres still quite a lot I won't even chance eating, even with a good microscope at my disposal.

Although on the easy to ID side-found a pair of giant puffballs recently, and have been gearing up a project to try and grow the buggers at home. Seeded the lawn with pieces of the ripe gleba, and saved some to culture in the lab and prepare some decent spawn. Those are of everything I've eaten probably one of my absolute favourite, that and sulfur polypore (some people react badly to this though, but if not, its really tasty). Been years since I've found the puffballs though, was a real pleasure eating them, sliced like steaks, dipped in egg and breadcrumbs then fried. Made sure to save tons of spores