If I despise animal testing etc. is it contradictory to take xanax or other pharma downers? If so is there any non animal tested (discovery wise), yet

[Tieeurrrop]

If I despise animal testing etc. is it contradictory to take xanax or other pharma downers? If so is there any non animal tested (discovery wise), yet safe, depressants?
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tl;dr
Is it ok to benefit from a drug which has in the past been tested on animals even if the current supply route may not have been included in that testing? Also last paragraph for a good summation analogy.
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I mean I know that the phase 1 shit they do barrages of animal tests. I wonder does the discovery of the drug itself include animal testing? Like the scientist might think of it in his mind and that doesn't include animal testing and then if illegal drug manufacturers later synth it then that doesn't have to do with animal testing. It is only the government regulations which mean the animal tests. Though I fear this is futile mental gymnastics? because I guess that the only way the thick headed scientist came up with the idea for a drug in the first place was perhaps years of animal torture to see progressive results of what happened and then finally had the 'aha' for xanax after countless failed experiments.

I only got to thinking about that line of thinking since shulgin famously always tested on himself and had claimed and I quote (iirc) that animal testing is worth 'dog doo doo'.

So as such I could feel in good conscience taking most any of shulgins creations could I not? though he hijacked some discontinued things from pharma industry. Anyway I doubt shulgin has many any(?) downers in his tikhal/phikal since he loved his stims and psychs so much and I steer clear of both of those these days.

So is there any vegan approved (and safe) downers out there? I have tried GHB which is 100% natural baby but it gave me bad side effects so that is off the cards same with all the other gaba B drugs I took, same fucking side effect which I couldn't tolerate, even kava.

Alcohol could pass as vegan approved since it is natural but that is fucking gross. There are other alcohol analogues/relatives like choral hydrate and 2m2b which do indeed sound enticing effects wise but are either are known to be toxic or unstudied as to their toxicity, respectively.

And speaking of knowing toxicity anything that is known to be toxic was only found out...again...through fucking animal tests.

So anything to do with drugs and your fucked? Even weed I am sure they tested on animals but should you feel guilty and 'hide' from the knowledge gained from their tests on otherwise ethically sound drugs?

Seems like an impossible quandary.

I guess one other area are the rc downers, some of which have been discovered independently of the pharma industry, but still there is the question mark of toxicity around them.

But I wonder is it a futile effort. I mean for example the germans use the autobahn still and that was a product of the nazis so should they boycott that too? There is probably lots of technology that people over the world that people use that were garnered from the nazi experiments on jews once the allied forced liberated them and took the nazi science docs so should that all likewise be destroyed?

 

[Working_Class]

I mean I understand where you're coming from with the animal testing thing, it is cruel and it is abhorrent, but it doesn't change the fact that the testing has already been done. So you're voluntary exclusion of using those particular substance is isn't going to undo the damage that scientists have potentially done to those animals. It's like, you can't undo something that's already done. So you may as well just use whichever substance is going to be the most efficacious for your particular needs. It's not like you have to support animal testing, you can definitely Lobby against it, and I understand where you're coming from with voluntarily excluding yourself from using substances that have been tested on animals, but, a lot of very terrible medicines have been tested on animals, and a lot of very useful at drugs have been tested on animals. If you limit yourself to Simply ones that haven't been tested on animals, you put yourself in a very very narrow range of experimental chemicals that may have a greater risk of side effects simply because they haven't been tested clinically on animals or humans. So your thought process there is IMO, correct.

That's just my two cents, I'm not for animal testing at all, if I had it my way people would just voluntarily sign up for the shit and they would be able to test whatever in a clinical setting, but, no matter how stringent your morals are, this will never change the fact that scientific testing of drugs on animals is where the clinical trial gets approved. Unless you're using drugs from Alexander Shulgin's handiwork or other of the latest and greatest RC's, as you had mentioned, the first tests of a new chemical was probably done on an animal.

Also, it is worth noting that even naturopathic medicine has been tested on animals, so no matter which way you go you're pretty much hooped in terms of limited your use of drugs which have not been first tested on actual animals in a lab.

The world is a sick and cruel Place, I'm not too sure which way you would be able to go with this. It's sort of a complex question when you throw that type of moral inquiry into the whole equation. And it makes me sad too, to think of all the happenings that has occured behind closed doors.

 

[Working_Class]

I suppose one thing you may want to consider is that the animal tests on a lot of those drugs are finished. It's not like they have continued testing, so I suppose you can take some solace in that fact. Once the shit is done and approved and hits the market, the suffering goes from the critters in the cage to the humans in the streets. That's really a double-edged sword, I suppose the best way to go about it would be to just stay sober if that was your #1 concern. Meditating is certainly vegan approved, maybe get into the Wim Hof breathing technique?

If somebody else has the ultimate answer to this complex inquery, I would love to hear it. But as things are, I do not believe there is any other solution other than becoming the lab rat yourself. Look up harm reduction practices, there's a big and dandy thread on Bluelight for that if you want to get into RC's. And your information would be extremely useful for the community, for Science and for progress, I highly encourage becoming the lab rat. I am one myself. However, just know that you would be taking your life and health into your own hands. Proceed with caution my friend.


One quote I've always lived by is "there is no such thing as a free lunch" haha. We're all headed to the grave one way or another. Might as well enjoy the ride

 

[Tieeurrrop]

Hmm thanks for the well thought out reply.

I have been digesting what some other's replied to me elsewhere and someone made the great point that the whole of civilization has been created on the backs of both human and animal exploitation so I suppose in that sense this is an argument ad absurdum. The only way to live a spiritually pure life would, then, to live in the woods like the unabomber or something but you would have to do all your own medical and dental treatment yourself etc.

Even then you are probably only safe and free to do that because of the animals and people that died in the countless wars to protect your freedom .

 

[LucidSDreamr]

would you really want to take a drug that hadn't been tested on any living things yet?