I need a more vivid experience

[Flickering]

I have a few years of experience with psychedelics, mostly LSD. But I keep hearing people say that once you start taking milligram doses of acid, what you're experiencing becomes real at the peak - you're not imagining the pyramids of Giza, you are there, and often aren't even aware there's any reality outside the trip. Well... how do you get to that point?

I'm interested in breakthrough or near-breakthrough doses for the purposes of a meditative exercise I want to attempt. What I'm after is the ability to visualise something so intensely, and with such focus and consistency, that it takes over from reality, and I'm able to hold onto it or at least a few minutes. I'll need some degree of control over the nature of the imagined reality.

But even at doses of up to five grams of mushrooms or six good hits of acid, I've never ended up anywhere close.

I'm looking for meditative exercises, techniques or tricks to try on my next trip, like biannural beats, a mandala to focus on, or a mantra. Also thinking of mixing acid with weed (with enough of it, I can kind of get lost in my imagination) or a dissociative like ketamine. This also sounds right down the track of lucid dreaming, but I find dreams are very slippery things to hold onto. And if any one substance sounded like it would induce this kind of full-body, other world experience, it would be ibogaine - which I'm willing to track down and use just for the purposes of this exercise.

Even if you just have experiences yourself of getting to a state like what I'm describing with psychedelics, I'd really love to hear about it and how you got there. Thanks.

 

[swilow]

I would love to be able to retain my everyday state of consciousness and experience these effects and places but I don't know of any way this is possible, outside of lucid dreaming (which I heartily suggest you attempt). I would love it also if I could use meditation to experience this, but I'm not good enough at meditating to know if it is even possible. The problem with your idea trying to "visualise something so intensely, and with such focus and consistency, that it takes over from reality" is that the intense and prolonged concentration you would require may be the very thing which makes it difficult for you to slip into this state. Tripping can make it very hard to focus, which may be one reason that these events can occur...

Using drugs, those sort of breakthrough experiences are rarely navigable, at least in my experience. Despite an awareness of being 'somewhere' else and ability to seemingly interact with this other environment, it can be so separate from any normal frame of reference as to seem almost nonsensical. My own experiences like this, or at least the most acute, have been via salvia, DMT (smoked/oral) and ketamine. Salvia has produced the most complete destruction of normal reality, and appeared to relocate me to some extraordinairy (and completely terrifying) desert landscape, complete with humanoid inhabitants. However, salvia is utterly panic inducing for me. Smoked DMT has propelled me to a kind of internal hyperspace of multi-dimensional- fractalish-serpents that I or my awareness appears to be flying beside of. Ketamine has produced a stuck-between-worlds sensation that isn't always visual, but very vivid in terms of synaesthesia and general perceptual blurring. The most long lasting out-of-body type experience has been from ayahuasca, which was totally amazing and beautiful but extremely dislocating and rendered me almost unable to control my actual body. I've had vaguely similar effect from high dose LSD, but accompanied by a lot of disturbing paranoia; it may not be the ideal agent to induce the effects you are after. I'm sure that mushrooms could do this, but the thought is pretty intimidating to me....

FWIW, I tend not to think there is a huge amount of value in these experiences, at least when mediated by drugs. They are amazing and quite beautiful but also very weird, very confusing, relatively incomprehensible and often devoid of 'meaning', until we try and derive meaning post-experience. In terms of psychedelics, low doses have more value to me; though the breakthrough experience is one I'm pleased to have experienced.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Dissociatives provide the most intense experiences I've had.

 

[Mazzab]

I think some DMT would be exactly what your lookin for my friend

 

[rpm]

I've often found that a dissociative on top of psychedelics, mostly shrooms, is very good for this. Be careful though, it can be quite intense. Also I find k and mushrooms (or 4aco) to mix pretty well, while with lsd or 2cx drugs I've had more confusing and unsettling experiences.

Dmt apparently also gets you there, but so far, dispute a number of attempts I haven't managed to break through.

 

[phuckingnutz]

But even at doses of up to five grams of mushrooms or six good hits of acid, I've never ended up anywhere close.

You are comparing 5 grams of shrooms to six hits of LSD, you either have some weak LSD or some STRONG mushrooms...my guess is the former.

IME, 12-15 grams dried cubes or 100-120 grams fresh cubes is a pretty strong dose...fresh is better, but even that won't be like doing "milligram doses" of LSD

 

[rpm]

IME, 12-15 grams dried cubes or 100-120 grams fresh cubes is a pretty strong dose...fresh is better, but even that won't be like doing "milligram doses" of LSD

While I agree 5 grams is not 6 hits of lsd, 15grams of dried shrooms is more than pretty strong surely. I've never gone higher than 9g and that was one hell of a ride. Easily equivalent to say 500 mics of lsd. Would you go higher than 15g? I've usually heard that described as top end of high dose, and above that side effects become more bother some. I'd say that's more like 1000mics + than 6 hits (assuming 100 mic a hit)

 

[phuckingnutz]

While I agree 5 grams is not 6 hits of lsd, 15grams of dried shrooms is more than pretty strong surely. I've never gone higher than 9g and that was one hell of a ride. Easily equivalent to say 500 mics of lsd. Would you go higher than 15g? I've usually heard that described as top end of high dose, and above that side effects become more bother some. I'd say that's more like 1000mics + than 6 hits (assuming 100 mic a hit)

Honestly, I haven't done LSD in 30 years...no connects for it these days. So, I can't really compare the two with any accuracy.
I grew my own cubes until a couple of months ago and 15 grams, dry weight, was a fairly common dose for me.
The strongest doses were fresh cubes liquefied and drunk...100-120 grams fresh weight...translates to 10-12 grams dried, but something about fresh was totally different from dried...much, much more intense.
Not trying to dick measure, I genuinely thought that 5 grams dried cubes would equal about 100mics LSD...had no idea shrooms were comparably as potent as you say.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

From just reading the first post, I think the OP is looking to combine a classic psychedelic with something like ketamine or (I cannot recommend this), 3-MeO-PCP.

 

[phuckingnutz]

From just reading the first post, I think the OP is looking to combine a classic psychedelic with something like ketamine or (I cannot recommend this), 3-MeO-PCP.

I think Op just wants a fully immersive experience and since I've never done a dissociative, all I can recommend to "take over reality" would be mod/high dose DMT, IM injection.
Then again, my experience with a wide range of psychs is limited.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Well and obviously a full inhalation of 10mg 5-MeO-DMT, or an IM shot of 12mg, will easily accomplish that goal. Too bad 5-MeO-DMT seems so rare on the market. Damn recreational drug users giving my sacrament a bad name.

 

[rpm]

Honestly, I haven't done LSD in 30 years...no connects for it these days. So, I can't really compare the two with any accuracy.
I grew my own cubes until a couple of months ago and 15 grams, dry weight, was a fairly common dose for me.
The strongest doses were fresh cubes liquefied and drunk...100-120 grams fresh weight...translates to 10-12 grams dried, but something about fresh was totally different from dried...much, much more intense.
Not trying to dick measure, I genuinely thought that 5 grams dried cubes would equal about 100mics LSD...had no idea shrooms were comparably as potent as you say.

Agree with you on the fresh vs dried thing. Fresh are much stronger. Even how quickly you dry them can affect the strength I think. Anyway, I wasn't calling you out. I just saw your post and was like, woah, do most people consider that just pretty strong. Just wanting to compare experiences.

I suppose these things effect everyone differently, but I'd say 100mics of lsd is more like 2g for me - but then the dose response curves are a bit different I think.

 

[Flickering]

From just reading the first post, I think the OP is looking to combine a classic psychedelic with something like ketamine or (I cannot recommend this), 3-MeO-PCP.

I think you're right, I've heard good things about this combination. Well, ketamine anyway; PCP crosses the line too far into 'hard drugs'.

Like willow says, what I'm after is a pretty tall order. I have enough experience to know that the more intense a trip gets, the less control you tend to have over it, and you ought to surrender to what IT wants to show YOU. Wresting it in the direction YOU want it to go tends to be tricky at best and inadvisable at worst.

But, I find LSD in particular a VERY comfortable drug. Someone mentioned I must have weak acid to compare 6 hits to 5g of shrooms - these tabs are active at one quarter of a hit, so I'd put 6 hits at somewhere between 450 and 600 mics. Though this dose is powerful in terms of effects and body high, my actual thought patterns and sense of control always remain as grounded as before the trip began. On the other hand, 5g of mushrooms for me is basically a psychosis simulator. I consider 5g of cubensis incomparably stronger than any high dose of acid I've ever taken.

I bring that up because MAYBE extreme doses (12+?) of LSD might get me where I'm trying to go, assuming I can still retain that degree of control while the effects themselves become more vivid. And maybe weed would help relax the limits of the mind once there.

Have been wanting to try DMT for years - I still fully intend to, but it sounds like a case of what willow describes as the experience taking over. I can certainly see how such intense trips might not be translatable to your everyday life, but you never know 'til you've tried.

 

[afer]

Another option to consider is to make some changa, that is, a smokable version of ayahausca. Basically, one enhances any leaf material available with DMT freebase and harmine/harmaline freebase and then smokes that. This combination lasts longer than pure smoked DMT and is more stretched out intensity-wise, so that one actually remembers what happened and can integrate the experience. And at high enough doses, it its groundbreaking. Making changa is a tedious process involving multiple extractions though, not even speaking of legality...

 

[LucidSDreamr]

you havn't IVed a fat dose of mxe or ket have you?

 

[Goddess Mode]

I recently was getting this to a degree from somewhere around 12 to 15 hits of LSD, for the first time with it. It was actually my first time ever getting it with a psychedelic, though I've gotten close with both DMT and mushrooms. I personally find that LSD is totally easily to handle and not paranoid or dark at all even in high doses, and I like it's overall hallucinogenic style more than other psychedelics (just an artistic preference really), so I definitely intend to push even higher for those full breakthrough doses eventually. If you find LSD to be easy in that way too then I would honestly recommend it, though some people would disagree with me. In any case, DMT is probably the one that will produce what you're looking for the most easily, if you smoke enough and can let go into it. And I feel like this would at least personally be unavoidable if I took 10 or more grams of mushrooms, or some other equally high doses of psilocin or LSD or DMT analogues with enough visionary potential (though I wouldn't recommend it as readily as with the classics). The dissociatives would of course help too but I personally find it the idea of getting to this point from psychedelics alone more fascinating.... Another thing I'd say to remember is that it's at least partially about mindset. Once you reach those levels of trip it becomes easier to get back with each subsequent voyage. A lot of people having entities become a much more common part of their experience with mushrooms and LSD after they start having DMT breakthroughs.

 

[porkstock]

i know i'm going off on a tangent, but i cannot even FATHOM what 15 grams of mushrooms would do to me. i find that potency varies a lot, so that a half eighth of "good" mushrooms can be stronger than a whole eighth of weaker ones. but 3.5 grams of good mushrooms is strong enough for me. shrooms are more intimidating than LSD to me, which i've "only" tried up to ~400 ug or so.

when i've taken 4 hits of acid, or whenever i've taken more than the last time...i never thought it was too much. maybe i do need to try a high dose one of these days. the problem is i don't ever feel like i have enough to just eat like 8 hits at once. plus eating 6 or 8 hits IS a little intimidating.... 4 hits of good stuff gets me pretty far out...

 

[Flickering]

To follow that tangent: putting several tabs on your tongue, or taking a new dose or a new drug, is intimidating, and I often find the overstimulation of a high dose of LSD overwhelming in the first hour - one time, I had to call a friend to pick me up from the park I was in, and I spent the next half hour on the verge of a panic attack. What I recommend is spreading the dose over about 45 minutes. Take the first quarter of your total amount, then take the next quarter 15 minutes later, and the next at half an hour, and the final quarter at 45 minutes. It still makes for an intense come-up, but your mind has more time to adjust to the breakdown of normal reality, and if you are in a comfortable setting (don't drop at a park) you should be able to ride it. Even with tamer doses, I like to split the dose in two, taking the second half when I start to feel the effects of the first; this makes the structure of the trip a bit like mescaline, in that it has a smoother, longer come-up and a longer peak.

Changa sounds intense, in my understanding it's DMT but it lasts longer and can be more powerful. I'll want to build up to that. But thanks for the recommendation. It so happens that one of my friends came across some a couple of months ago, so it's out there.

Thanks Goddess Mode for your recommendation. It sounds like we have a similar experience of LSD, so I hope the same holds true for me. I do find that the more experience you have with a substance, the easier it becomes to recreate particular effects. I'll start pushing up to around the 12 tab mark; not sure I want to go beyond that at this stage of my life. Never really could relate to the reputation LSD has, if anything I find cannabis puts me in a loopier headspace.

 

[Goddess Mode]

No problem. I definitely get that with LSD especially too; it's like a neverending journey, if I take five hits it will at least in some ways be stronger than a ten hit trip from the week before. I expect that now that I've started to get those effects from LSD alone they'll be easier to come by in the future as well.... I know what you mean too, weed can actually make me feel "fucked up" but LSD is sooo clean, it's basically like a nootropic, and I still feel mentally clear even on high doses. I always smoke weed on LSD too but this seems to clear up that loopiness for me, and rather it just seems to directly bring out the best aspects of the trip. I've actually been starting to spread out my doses lately too, it really does work well.... For Bicycle Day I took 14 as 7 + 4 + 3 and I only ever had a come-up for the first dose. The rest was smooth sailing, I just started tripping harder and harder. And that trip was like lucid dreaming, I was just manifesting stuff in the room with me. But it wasn't quite as real as what I experienced on that last trip....

Well, I wish you good luck in your travels. :D

 

[afer]

Yet another fascinating option is pure DMT (but not changa, this is dangerous) smoked on top of the dissociative, say, DXM. Oftentimes I found that no matter how much DMT was smoked, I did not break through because of the fear. Dissociative both removes that hesitation and also significantly modifies the nature of smoked DMT experience. Mindblowing combination.