Benzos I don't know if its benzos or I'm seriously ill

[300THB]

I don't want to go into the full story here as its long but you can read my original thread here if it helps

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/836676-Can-benzo-withdrawal-symptoms-rebound-4-months-later

My drug use is as follows. 3 years approx on Ativan up to 3-4mg daily dropped to 1mg for the last year and have been clear of benzos for 4 months.

I was in hospital a little over 2 weeks ago with an infection. They prescribed me Metronidazole 400mg antibiotic.

Since the infection i have not felt right and its continued to get worse. I've been getting these episodes. I'll be doing something normal round the house, i start to feel weird, go extremely dizzy and disorientated, my whole body trembles and my heart rate goes up high 150 plus.

Its got to the point where i feel dizzy 24/7 and can't really do much but move off the couch. So i gone back to the emergency room and they said my heart rate was 164 resting, then 20 minutes later or so it dropped back down to normal levels.

They done every blood test they could and they all came back clear, doc said its probably cardiac related and my doctor is now referring me to a cardiologist and for a 24 hour ecg.

I felt absolutely fine until i had the infection and was prescribed Metronidazole. Could the Metronidazole have caused more benzo withdrawals? Apparently from research this antibiotic binds to GABA receptors blocking the action of regular benzodiazaphines. But i have been 4 months clear of benzo drugs!

I feel disorientated, dizzy and off balance just about all day. I woke up today and thought i couldn't get out of bed. I feel completely detached from the world. Even when going to sleep at night i can feel myself floating. All i know is its getting worse and worse and I've only experienced these symptoms when in benzo withdrawal.

Would it be a bad idea to try a small dose of a benzo to see if it relieves symptoms? say 0.5mg ativan?

Probably important to note but when i was in benzo withdrawals i did have heart rate problems. But they passed months ago.

Metronidazole binds to GABA receptors inhibiting the effects of benzodiazepines similar to flumazenil’s action. Central vestibular axonopathy and purkinje cell loss occurs. CSF analysis may be normal or show a mild increase in protein. Brainstem auditory evoked responses and CT/MRI are normal. Drug levels may be measured.

Source https://neurowebvet.com/2015/09/07/metronidazole-toxicity/

 

[jamesBrown]

This sounds like an issue that only your doctor(or team of doctors working together) could help you with. There are SO many variables it's impossible to say what's wrong.

But if I had to guess, based on your symptoms, I would say you are having a negative reaction to the metronidazole for some reason.

Good luck.
-JB-

 

[Slow_Mobius]

I agree. I think you really need to see a doctor to figure this one out.

Have you been taking anything else?

 

[Keif' Richards]

I'm with Slow Mobius. I really think the best thing to do would be to explore this further with your medical providers. It can be annoying, bouncing from provider to provider without getting answers, but I've played the same game. What you're saying is that you've been off Benzodiazepines for 4 months and that your withdrawal symptoms abated and then this condition came up spontaneously? All I can do is guess wildly, but my bet would be that what you're experiencing is related to the infection or it could be a combination of residual withdrawal symptoms combined with being sick.

I understand that you've been clean from Benzodiazepines for a while now, but it's unfortunately the case that Benzodiazepine withdrawal is an extremely protracted process. It makes Opioid withdrawal look like a piece of cake. There are people who experience rather severe symptoms for months after stopping Benzodiazepines. The fact that you were using them for years implies that you are probably a candidate for an extremely protracted withdrawal.

The symptoms that you're experiencing are what you would experience withdrawing from Benzodiazepines. The symptoms vary pretty widely from person to person, but this dizzy/dissociated from reality/floating feeling is pretty common.

 

[nigluhs%rednaxela]

"Metronidazole is available for treatment in anaerobic-related infections but may produce a number of neurologic side effects, such as cerebellar syndrome, encephalopathy, seizure, autonomic neuropathy, optic neuropathy, and peripheral neuropathy."
It has been suggested that metabolites of metronidazole may bind to RNA instead of DNA, possibly inhibiting RNA protein synthesis, which could potentially lead to axonal degeneration [6]. Another proposed mechanism involves the modulation of the inhibitory neurotransmitter gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) receptor within the cerebellar and vestibular systems [7]."

Considering you had been ingesting lorazepam for 3 years, it's not at all inconceivable that your GABAergic systems had still not FULLY recovered to their previous glory. Therefore, ingesting Metronidazole, which as stated above, is prone to neurotoxic side effects and potentially modulates GABA receptor activity, could have caused latent symptoms to resurface. Just a theory.

As Kief' Richard's said, benzodiazepine withdrawal is an extremely protracted process. Symptoms can resurface rather easily with the wrong stimuli. (I''m currently in the throes of it myself)

 

[Scrofula]

You're under the care of highly trained people, who specialized in your exact condition. Sometimes I like to pretend I'm Dr. House.

You didn't make clear if you were still using metronidazole/Flagyl. If you are, you know it causes nasty reactions to alcohol, right? Yes, they put a sticker on it. But that interaction is really sensitive. You'll react to just using and spitting out mouthwash, spraying perfume, cough medicine, certain foods, even using vinegar on your alcohol-free salad. So, there could be a hidden environmental source for your suffering.


But to me it sounds like that evil benzo addiction is calling to you, and even poking at some symptoms, making you feel worse, and trying to get you back. It even has you reading the literature, looking for a reason to take them again.

You probably know I'm not exaggerating, and that's how addiction works, straining your brain to logic itself into an excuse to use. You might feel better if you take a pill, but you risk destroying all your work.

Anyway, if you're still on Flagyl, nothing would happen; if you're now off the Flagyl, it wouldn't prove anything if you felt better.

 

[300THB]

I agree. I think you really need to see a doctor to figure this one out.

Have you been taking anything else?

Unfortunately doctors are not very helpful. In Accident and emergency i basically got told "we are not sure if its serious or not but we believe its cardiovascular related due to your heart rate increasing. But if its not happening now we can not help you".

Doctors are assuming its cardiac related. If it is benzo related i far trust bluelight more than doctors to help with this.

I've not taken anything else recently. Used recreational stimulants but that was over 2 years ago. I did use testosterone up until about 6 months ago.

"Metronidazole is available for treatment in anaerobic-related infections but may produce a number of neurologic side effects, such as cerebellar syndrome, encephalopathy, seizure, autonomic neuropathy, optic neuropathy, and peripheral neuropathy."
It has been suggested that metabolites of metronidazole may bind to RNA instead of DNA, possibly inhibiting RNA protein synthesis, which could potentially lead to axonal degeneration [6]. Another proposed mechanism involves the modulation of the inhibitory neurotransmitter gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) receptor within the cerebellar and vestibular systems [7]."

Considering you had been ingesting lorazepam for 3 years, it's not at all inconceivable that your GABAergic systems had still not FULLY recovered to their previous glory. Therefore, ingesting Metronidazole, which as stated above, is prone to neurotoxic side effects and potentially modulates GABA receptor activity, could have caused latent symptoms to resurface. Just a theory.

As Kief' Richard's said, benzodiazepine withdrawal is an extremely protracted process. Symptoms can resurface rather easily with the wrong stimuli. (I''m currently in the throes of it myself)

This is very interesting, thank you. I only taken a single 200mg pill of the Metronidazole. But just like if i drank a single shot of alcohol that is enough to start withdrawals again i guess? Do you think a single 200mg tablet of Metronidazole could have trigger the benzo withdrawal symptoms again?

You're under the care of highly trained people, who specialized in your exact condition. Sometimes I like to pretend I'm Dr. House.

You didn't make clear if you were still using metronidazole/Flagyl. If you are, you know it causes nasty reactions to alcohol, right? Yes, they put a sticker on it. But that interaction is really sensitive. You'll react to just using and spitting out mouthwash, spraying perfume, cough medicine, certain foods, even using vinegar on your alcohol-free salad. So, there could be a hidden environmental source for your suffering.


But to me it sounds like that evil benzo addiction is calling to you, and even poking at some symptoms, making you feel worse, and trying to get you back. It even has you reading the literature, looking for a reason to take them again.

You probably know I'm not exaggerating, and that's how addiction works, straining your brain to logic itself into an excuse to use. You might feel better if you take a pill, but you risk destroying all your work.

Anyway, if you're still on Flagyl, nothing would happen; if you're now off the Flagyl, it wouldn't prove anything if you felt better.

Unfortunately I'm not under the care of anyone specialized in my condition because they don't know what it is currently. Honestly I'm getting worried, because each day i feel worse than the one before all while waiting for a referral to a cardiologist.

I never used Ativan recreationally, it was always to control anxiety and help sleep. I don't want to take more Ativan but i also don't want to feel like this. I mean I'm not even functioning day to day right now, not been out the house in over 2 weeks.

As much as i don't want to take more Ativan after coming this far, i really can't afford to not be functioning. I'm on my final 3 months of a access to nursing course and i can not even work on that right now.

Can protracted withdrawal get worse than this? Its been two weeks since i taken the Flagyl and it seems to have gradually got worse each day.

Even when i wake up in the morning everything feels weird and i feel like I'm gonna black out. Assuming this is benzo related.

 

[Steady Scootin]

Were you totally open with the people at the ER? Give them all the details they might need? If not, I wouldn't expect them to be of much help either, but you shouldn't be concerned about giving them any and all information, even if it doesn't seem pertinent. If you did tell them absolutely everything and they weren't concerned, perhaps reconsider seeing another doctor, or going to another hospital.

 

[300THB]

Were you totally open with the people at the ER? Give them all the details they might need? If not, I wouldn't expect them to be of much help either, but you shouldn't be concerned about giving them any and all information, even if it doesn't seem pertinent. If you did tell them absolutely everything and they weren't concerned, perhaps reconsider seeing another doctor, or going to another hospital.

I was open and honest.

The thing is not many medical professionals will even consider that benzodiazaphine withdrawals can start up again after being symptom free for 4 months. So benzos get ruled out really.

Then if your heart rate is in normal range, your BP normal and all blood tests are clear they become even less concerned.

The doc was concerned but his attitude was that as my heart rate had dropped into normal range their was nothing he could do as he is an emergency care doctor. He said a cardiologist referral was needed. I've had this both times i gone to ER.

 

[Steady Scootin]

I'd say a visit to a general practitioner is in order. Perhaps one of those places where you don't need an appointment. Might have to wait for a while, but peace of mind is worth it, imo.

 

[Scrofula]

Well, OP after a two week hospital stay, they gave you outpatient metronidazole "400mg" of which you took a single 200mg pill. This stuff usually hangs from an IV pole, to give a hint of its seriousness. Whatever the way these numbers are backwards, the usual dosage is a lot higher. Daily. Obviously I'm misunderstanding something, but it sounds like you never finished your treatment.

It's also hard to judge the rest of your posts, by which I only mean it makes it even harder to wildly speculate (so prepare for some very tame speculation). Waking up light-headed and confused doesn't sound like benzo w/d, for instance. All of the things you describe DO fit with coming out of a two-week hospital stay. Especially if, for whatever reason--nausea, anxiety, post-care meds--you haven't been eating or sleeping well. Eight days on a hospital bed wrecked me for over a month, and my symptoms were the same as yours.

And hospitals fester with anxiety. All these feelings are normal after the kind of infection that puts you up for half a month.

Your conviction that the only cure is a new round of benzos is scary. And maybe there really is a touch of w/d in there. But try to focus on self-care like eating well and sleeping better, and see if they don't lead to some improvement.


ETA: and no, the Flagyl interacts with ethanol to cause acetaldehyde to buildup. So basically in causes a sudden hangover of death. It will not cause benzo withdrawals to manifest.

 

[Cgc822]

It kind of sounds like you have vertigo.. Hope everything works out, definitely talk with your doctor about this

 

[Speed King]

Here is a list of some more side effects related to metronidazole. This may help. https://www.drugs.com/sfx/metronidazole-side-effects.html

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

If it's been a while since the Flagyl and your not taking the doctors seriously then take 1 ativan and if you magically feel 1000% better then you might have a clue as to what's happening. On the other hand if that 1 benzo doesn't fix everything then I would continue seeking out a specialist with renewed vigor and following their directions to the letter.

 

[300THB]

After all that guys i never did take the 1 ativan, weighed up the pros and cons, i just didn't think feeling better was worth getting back in the benzo cycle. It taken me three years or so to beat it and i don't want to go back down that route.

I ended up back in the ER with breathing difficulties a cough and a high temperature, they done a swab and apparently i have the flu. They seem to think this has caused the dizziness and heart rate problems over the last few weeks but i ain't sure. They still want me to have a 24 hour ecg.

Honestly I'm very scared that my previous stimulant use has damaged my heart, could someone please offer an opinion on this?

Its been about 2-2.5 years since i used cocaine properly. But i gone through a bad patch, for about 2 to 3 months i heavily used cocaine, speed and alcohol.

Several times i used huge amounts of cocaine and speed in a night and overdosed a few times. My average night was 1-2 grams of PURE cocaine. This gone on for 2 to 3 months at an estimate.

On one night i used all the following, 5g flake cocaine, 15g speed (snorted), 2 liters of whiskey and 7-8mg of Ativan. I overdosed pretty badly and couldn't breathe. After this incident i still couldn't sleep 3 days later.

Another occasion i remember doing a far too large line about 500mg of again flake cocaine in a single line and came close to blacking out.

I've rarely used it since and not even had a line in over a year. Do you guys think this short term but heavy use could have damaged my heart? and the symptoms only surfacing 2 years plus down the line?

Thank you

 

[Scrofula]

I think you just have the flu.

And an underlying anxiety disorder. But I admit that if I had consumed a fraction of your beyond-lethal drug use, I'd be nervous too, if I wasn't dead.

I think what you really need is a therapist to talk about what very well could be PTSD after a night that would kill most people. Or at least to talk about whatever it is that got you to consume so much.

Either way, I think your heart is fine, and what you've been experiencing are panic attacks.

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

^ this

Trying to diagnose cardiac issues over the net is just not responsible. I mean I could speculate on tricuspid & mitral regurgitation + ejection fraction or S1/S2 pansystolic murmurs, coronary artery congestion, cardiomyopathy and on and on but it means nothing without diagnostic workups. Another issue with Cocaine is intestinal ischemia and transmural necrosis with necrotizing phlebitis but again there is no evidence to support this and it will do nothing but add anxiety if you take my opinion seriously.

The only real course of action that will be beneficial is to hope for the best and find out what's really going on. In this day and age there's no better time to for a positive outcome from a myriad of maladies. Hang in there 300 and godspeed finding out any pertinent info from a diagnostician.