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I converted to Catholicism after many years deep in the drug culture, AMA

I read Catholics are supposed to do this-True or False?

"Schedules are more exacting for Catholics, whose days are punctuated by no fewer than 7 occasions for prayer. Every evening at ten they must, for example, scan their consciences, read a Psalm, declare 'Into your hands, Lord', sing the Nunc dimittis (Song of Simeon) from the second chapter of the Gospel of St Luke and conclude with a hymn to the mother of Jesus 'Virgin now and always, take pity on us sinners'."

Also, curious if you have read the Quran? If so, what are your thoughts on Islam?

Honestly if I were a Christian or a Jew I would be rather offended by the Quran. The translation I read explicitly states that anyone identifying as a Christian or Jew is a fraud and liable to damnation.
 
I think I am familiar enough to speak about it. I confirmed my baptism when I was 15 and when I was in rehab I would ask for a Christian priest.

I like the Aquarian gospel and find this seems like the most genuine account of Christ, and also very moving, and Gnosticism. I don't believe in the Sananda channeled material. I've had a few personal encounters with Christ myself, in crisis situations, as well.

Above all, I like some of the Christian mystics/interpretors, like Peter Deunov who was a true follower of Christ and only lived to be as much like him as he could. Something like this can be more applicable to modern life than the ancient bible teachings.
 
i know I've taken my own liberties with the topic and am not exactly helping with my random commentary. So just want to make sure you know I find your viewpoint deeply informed and a pleasure to read. Thanks for taking the time SKL. Still, we're taking about our eternal souls here, so forgive us for being argumentative.

On that note I'd like to hear your thoughts on forgiveness, which is a fundamental component of any teaching involving Christ, whether it has scriptural basis or not. Based on your studies of scripture how would you summarize Christ's message on forgiveness.
 
I know I asked it a million years ago, SKL but what are your thoughts on how you would view God if there was incontrovertible proof of a multiverse and that our particular patch was formed out of nothing more than mere happenstance. I realize that Christianity still could exist in exactly the same form but as far as I know, it still teaches that God created the Earth and man. Proof that we are one of many negates the need for a creator and questions the supposed infalibilty of God in my view at the best and completely extinguishes his very existence at worst which snowballs into the thought that everything else that still would hold true about religion is nothing more than mere stories which have no consequences on human existence.
 
If this is true, organized and dogmatic religion is indeed silly and a waste of time.

and here we are. I am not anti religious. I am only against religions that are absurd and stupidn which is anything based on the bible. You dismissed my serious questions. You act like Catholicism was around in jesus's time. You are being a hypocrite considering your religion started out the same way the others that you criticized started. It wasn't till the council of Nicea that they tried to come to some kind of aggreement on what the dogma should be. i am not looking for a serious debate about such ridiculous nonsense, because essentially you take it all on faith. There is little logic behind it at all. But what I do find curious is that seemingly nice decent people will put their faith in a book filled with vile evil nasty bullcrap and they pass this atrocious garbage off as god's infallible word. What does it say about a person willing to murder their child because they hear god's voice in asking for a sacrifice? Why would a kind just god demand you cast the first stone to kill your own brother if he speaks of worshipping other gods? that doesn't sound primitive and barbaric? You really think a god that tells you to rip babies from the wombs of their mothers is worthy of your reverence? If thats what god is, I will gladly suffer eternal hellfire before I would harm an innocent person for believing something different. And, do you really have to wonder why there is hostility? Your beliefs offend everyone who believes any different than you do. I feel sorry for anyone in thia day and age that still believes the infallibility of the Bible. They are either mentally disturbed or just oblivious to common sense.
 
Turk, are you some kind of professional forum-provocateur? I can imagine you all around the net, riling people up, and laughing your ass off.
 
Well, his provocative statements are awfully cliché...age I'm being trolled, I prefer a more skillful troll to do the trolling.
 
I'm liking SKls calm demeanor in the face of Turks desperate attempts at 'debate'...
 
I'll try to get the thread back on track, apologies if these questions have been answered already.

Do you go to confession? If so, have you been entirely honest about your sins?

Is abortion a forgivable sin?

feel free to answer my questions about the Quran..

I appreciate all your contributions to this thread, thanks!
 
I didn't read through the last few pages, so apologies if this question already came up. You stated a few times that you don't like the arbitrariness of protestantism, where everyone can interpret the bible in their own way, but don't catholics do the same thing to a lesser extent? When you read the bible don't you make your own interpretation too? Isn't that the basis of all bible exegesis, to interpret what you read on your own? Sure you can and should make use of the exegetic tradition, but aren't you forced in the end to make up your mind and decide what it means to you personally? It seems to me like you are portraying a totally unrealistic ideal, where somebody reads the bible and then consults the 'official-interpretation-handbook' and comes to a conclusion without having made a single thought of their own. That can't really be what you are proposing can it?


Also another question that I had earlier in the thread (maybe you answered it a few pages later, in that case feel free to ignore as I will see it when reading through the whole thread). Is the christian god a bloodthirsty god? I can see no other reason why the sacrifice of Jesus would have been necessary. It seems god had made up his mind that he wanted to forgive mankind right? I mean obviously he didn't want mankind to pay for it's sins itself like it is described in the OT, but instead sacrificed himself/his son. But if he *wanted* to forgive mankind, couldn't he have just snapped his fingers and make it so? This makes me ask myself if god wanted or maybe even needed to see blood before he could forgive mankind, but what would that say about the nature of god? I mean if I were challenged to come up with a good explanation I would say, the sacrifice wasn't done because it was necessary, but just because it was a powerful message, but that isn't exactly the doctrine of the church, is it?
 
Well, his provocative statements are awfully cliché...age I'm being trolled, I prefer a more skillful troll to do the trolling.

I just remember the spelling war between Turk and Journeyman. :)
 
is god bloodthirsty?

this is from http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

there are a few hundred of these. this is just a few of them.

Genesis
Because God liked Abel's animal sacrifice more than Cain's vegetables, Cain kills his brother Abel in a fit of religious jealousy. 4:8
"I will destroy ... both man and beast."
God is angry. He decides to destroy all humans, beasts, creeping things, fowls, and "all flesh wherein there is breath of life." He plans to drown them all. 6:7, 17
"Every living substance that I have made will I destroy."
God repeats his intention to kill "every living substance ... from off the face of the earth." But why does God kill all the innocent animals? What had they done to deserve his wrath? It seems God never gets his fill of tormenting animals. 7:4
"All flesh died that moved upon the earth."
God drowns everything that breathes air. From newborn babies to koala bears -- all creatures great and small, the Lord God drowned them all. 7:21-23
God sends a plague on the Pharaoh and his household because the Pharaoh believed Abram's lie. 12:17
God tells Abram to kill some animals for him. The needless slaughter makes God feel better. 15:9-10
Hagar conceives, making Sarai jealous. Abram tells Sarai to do to Hagar whatever she wants. "And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled." 16:6
"I will not destroy it for ten's sake."
I guess God couldn't find even ten good Sodomites because he decides to kill them all in Genesis 19. Too bad Abraham didn't ask God about the children. Why not save them? If Abraham could find 10 good children, toddlers, infants, or babies, would God spare the city? Apparently not. God doesn't give a damn about children. 18:32
Lot refuses to give up his angels to the perverted mob, offering his two "virgin daughters" instead. He tells the bunch of angel rapers to "do unto them [his daughters] as is good in your eyes." This is the same man that is called "just" and "righteous" in 2 Peter 2:7-8. 19:7-8
God kills everyone (men, women, children, infants, newborns) in Sodom and Gomorrah by raining "fire and brimstone from the Lord out of heaven." Well, almost everyone -- he spares the "just and righteous" Lot and his family. 19:24
Lot's nameless wife looks back, and God turns her into a pillar of salt. 19:26
God gets angry with king Abimelech, though the king hasn't even touched Sarah. He says to the king, "Behold, thou art but a dead man," and threatens to kill him and all of his people. To compensate for the crime he never committed, Abimelech gives Abraham sheep, oxen, slaves, silver, and land. Finally, after Abraham "prayed unto God," God lifts his punishment to Abimelech, "for the Lord had fast closed up all the wombs of the house of Abimelech, because of Sarah." 20:3-18

Anyone that believes the bible contains the word of god must be mentally disturbed. If I were trying to troll this place I could do so much better. My questions are legit, and he has no good answers so its easier for him to dismiss it as trolling than to explain how he rationalizes his absurd dogma.
 
^Your use of ad hominems really negates much of what you write Turk.
 
not doing much at the moment, thus random observation regarding religion.

Reza Aslan said:
I think the Buddha said it right: If you want to draw water you do not dig six one foot wells. You dig one six foot well. Islam is my six foot well. I like the symbols and metaphors it uses to describe the relationship between God and humanity. But I recognize that the water I am drawing is the same water that every other well around me is drawing. And no matter the well, the water is just as sweet!

It is difficult to study the world’s religions and not recognize that they are pretty much all saying the exact same things, often in exactly the same way. Some scholars think that’s because there’s something in the human mind or in human societies that longs for divine connection and so comes up with similar answers in the pursuit of God. Maybe...

But it could be just as conceivable that the reason we all talk about God in pretty much the same way (though with different symbols and metaphors) is because we are all talking about the same God!


Religion is nothing but a signpost to God. If you believe there is something beyond the material, and if you want to commune with that “thing” then it helps to have a set of symbols and metaphors to help you talk about it – both to yourself and to other people.

That is ALL religion is supposed to be. A language of symbol and metaphors to help you make sense of something that is ineffable. I just happen to prefer the symbols and metaphors of Islam. That’s all.

*Not sure if Buddha said the thing about the six foot well..

Anyway, I agree with Mr. Aslan. Many people who identify as religious, regardless of sect or creed, believe that a lot of what you read in scripture is merely humans attempting to express the inexpressible. Its actually impossible to read the Bible literally, even if you believe in miracles, God creating the heavens and the earth, virgin birth etc.-- you will still find an abundance of contradictions.
 
life is all about trying to deal with the pointlessness, i you found something that makes it all easier till you die, go right ahead.
 
I am still here. Expect another few lengthy replies tomorrow or the day after: Islam/Buddhism, Lewis trilemma, bloodthirsty God/substitutionary atonement, auricular confession, scriptural exegesis and authority ... as I said I don't just sit down and write them out, I mull over them, sometimes bring out citations, etc. I am mulling over a bunch of the questions asked above right now. I appreciate everyone's patience and interest.

As far as turk goes I'm not sure if "troll" is even the right word although I haven't encountered him on the forums outside of this thread. He just appears to be one of a great many militant anti-theists/anti-religion types who you run into so frequently on the Internet who get into this certain anti-theistic movement of sorts and reflexively attack religion with a truly fanatical fervour, and who's arguments happen to be (at least on the lower levels of encountering these folks online) almost all clichéd and predictable, even the list of Scriptures that purports to show the God of the Old Testament in a negative light is literally copy and pasted from some such source. I'm fairly convinced that on the Internet at least, there is no arguing with these people, and he's said as much of me above, so he may as well disengage, as will I. I hardly expect that my humble attempts at apologetics in this internet thread will affect a great many conversions of Bluelighters to Catholicism, but I just hope to engage in an honest and intellectually based dialogue that is grounded in something more than just knee jerk reactions of believers towards nonbelievers and the opposite. It's my earnest hope and prayer that I can even begin in my posts here to scratch the surface of the complexities of Catholic thought on these subjects, of which I am only an amateur student, and which literally goes back 2,000 years into the past. Making the discussion be solely about the opinions of people in the present isn't on my agenda for this thread, and although of course as a rebuttal one might say that by posting an "ask me anything" I am soliciting inquiries as to my opinion -- not really the case. I'm soliciting inquiries as to my attempt at an honest and orthodox understanding of Catholicism. I also, by the way, welcome questions of a more personal sort although I'd have to add the disclaimer ask me (almost) anything on questions of a biographical nature.

I'd also like to add a parenthesis here to say that I hardly occupy a moral high ground. I am a bad Catholic, and a great sinner. I have had in my life serious difficulties with greed, self-centeredness, neglect of obligation to others, pride, addiction, rebellion towards authority, alcohol, heroin, sex, violence, you name it, not to mention the glorification of all of the above, sometimes on this very forum, not to mention lack of faith and spiritual struggle and difficulties, down to this very day. I claim no moral high ground, only to have spent some good deal of time and effort over the past several years in study of the Catholic faith and knowledge in hope and faith that, first and foremost, that it is the Truth; and, on but a secondary level, that I hope and believe it will help me be a better person. It does not go the other way 'round -that is the person-centered, "moralist therapeutic deism" I keep going back to. Catholicism asks us to understand ourselves spiritually not merely as individuals or even individuals in dialogue with God, although there is certainly a place for the dialogue of the individual with God, but as a member of the Church, the "body of Christ," in dialogue with the entirety of the Church, the living, the dead, the visible, hierarchical parts of the Church, and the Church simply defined as believers joined by the sacraments. This is why much of what I am saying will present difficulties for people who are more accustomed to an individualistic spirituality centered upon self and subjective experience and belief.

But for now, a good night, and a very quick one answered

I read Catholics are supposed to do this-True or False?

"Schedules are more exacting for Catholics, whose days are punctuated by no fewer than 7 occasions for prayer. Every evening at ten they must, for example, scan their consciences, read a Psalm, declare 'Into your hands, Lord', sing the Nunc dimittis (Song of Simeon) from the second chapter of the Gospel of St Luke and conclude with a hymn to the mother of Jesus 'Virgin now and always, take pity on us sinners'."

false; this is speaking of the Liturgy of the Hours, a very beautiful spiritual practice that revolves around reading certain prayers and scriptures varying throughut the year at certain fixed times; it is considered to be a pious and spiritually beneficial practice for the laity but is not an obligation on them, but it is an obligation on all clergy and almost all of those in religious life (monks and nuns.)
 
Your book is full of ridiculous nonsense and you praise it as god's word. This has been goin on for 2000 years. I have a human mind like everyone else, why would you expect an original criticism at this point? You hear the same tired cliche's and you are full of them. That's life. If you could take a step back and look at things from a more objective perspective, you would understand why people get so riled up over these religions that claim god's word can be found in a book portraying him as a blood thirsty human-like egomaniac.

Ic it makes you feel better I am also a harsh critic of militant atheists on the opposite end of the spectrum. I'm in the middle with a natural religion based on monism. Words like Existence, Reality, Being, Truth, these are words that describe concepts that I equate with the concept of what God means to me. God is beyond ego(personality). calling me a new age spiritualist would be misleading. I do not equate myself or any other "piece" of existence as God. To me, God is only a word that can represent the system of qll things. God is more than the sum of its parts, its the whole system of systems interacting in such a way that properties like conciousness can emerge. These properties might seem to operate in an unnatural way because they can not be reduced to properties attributed to any of the systems basic conponents.

My approach to many of Life's questions is an agnostic approach. I will even grant you the Bible god my be real. If he is real, he is such a shitty person I deem him unworthy of my reverence.

Let me ask you in all seriousness:
If god demanded the sacrifice of your first born son, what would you do?
I would fry in a lake a fire for all eternity before I would harm a hair or an innocent child's head. I would do his because my god is Truth, and the truth is that's atrocious. Virtue is about doing the right thing because its the right thing. I don't need a good to tell me right from wrong. I am ok that some people need a book, but what good is a book when its full of obvious vile evil shit.

Also, you should be thankful I haven't put much effort into my critique. I copy and pasted a few things, but I could have sorted thru and picked the really bad stuff. there were like 2000 of those verses all of which are reverenced so you can find them in the bible yourself.

I am sorry that you believe this stuff because you sound like a smart dude. Which is why I was interested in how you approach the absurdity of your beliefs. I wouldn't mind a cliche response, because usually christians avoid these kinds of questions altogether.

Ya know, if the Bible is infallible, then you are in the same boat as everyone else. We are all gonna burn in a lake of fire because the bible is very specific about who will get into heaven. I don't know a christian out there that would actually make the cut.
 
Let me ask you in all seriousness:
If god demanded the sacrifice of your first born son, what would you do?
I would fry in a lake a fire for all eternity before I would harm a hair or an innocent child's head. I would do his because my god is Truth, and the truth is that's atrocious. Virtue is about doing the right thing because its the right thing.

Well, then you would be doing the right thing.

I don't think that is a story about God but about worship of the archons/djinn who feed on human pain and suffering and have been revered for so long. I think Jesus' descriptions in the New Testament comes closer to the true God and that's the only part of the bible that really interests me.
 
I think people miss the point of that story. Its about having faith and trusting god. No son was sacrificed.

But it is a very human god that requires such faith. I don't think the god of the old testament is the same as that of the new.
 
I think people miss the point of that story. Its about having faith and trusting god. No son was sacrificed.

But it is a very human god that requires such faith. I don't think the god of the old testament is the same as that of the new.

So what is the point of that story, then? That you should put some arbitrary "god" for which there is no evidence and which does not reveal itself even if it exists, before very real objects and subjects such as your family? That, in "metaphorical" terms, you should "sacrifice your son" if believing in such a god requires you to do so? Goddamn, isn't that messed up?
 
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