Misc Hydroxyzine vs diphenhydramine (and doxylamine) for sleep?

[fugme]

How does hydroxyzine compare to these 2 classic sleep-aid antihistamines?

I have a metric fuckton of diphenhydramine pills, but unfortunately i feel the effects for at least 12 hours since ingestion and if some acute tolerance present i take 75mg and easily feel it 16hr later. It's not direct drowsiness but rather this weird feeling / high in the morning. Doxylamine IME is even worse and lasts longer too, so that's why i dont use it anymore.

On paper both diphenhydramine and doxylamine have fairly short half-lives so i don't know why do they affect me this way. Hydroxyzine has ~twice as longer half-life so it logically it should persist into the next day, but that doesn't mean it would necessarily make me feel weird.

What is your experience regarding this?

 

[Xorkoth]

I find hydroxyzine the worst of the 3 for sleep. Doxylamine is the best by a good margin. It really works for me for insomnia, almost always, whereas diphenhydramine has mixed success and hydroxyzine has little success. makes sense since hydroxyzine is the least sedating of the 3, and doxylamine is the most sedating of the 3.

 

[negrogesic]

Yeah not a fan hydroxyzine for sleep. Not of a fan of hydroxyzine in generally actually.

I take 50mg of diphenhydramine a night, down from 100mg/night. Doxylamine does seem more hypnotic but the hangover is definitely worse.

 

[thurston]

Diphenhydramine gives me really bad restless limbs to the point I can't sleep. Doxylamine works but lasts too long and I haven't tried the other.

 

[fugme]

Thank you all for your responses..

Yeah not a fan hydroxyzine for sleep. Not of a fan of hydroxyzine in generally actually.

I take 50mg of diphenhydramine a night, down from 100mg/night. Doxylamine does seem more hypnotic but the hangover is definitely worse.

Considering you take it (almost) daily. How would you go on abut halving its half-life? i was thinking maybe nasal administration, but the pills are quite numbing and nasty even when taken orally.

 

[plumbus-nine]

For me, diphenhydramine does absolutely zero to help me sleep. Doxylamine was passable, and hydroxyzine is the most selective out of all. But with antihistamines one has to want to sleep, otherwise when fighting tiredness they don't work, at least not repeatedly, and then one is left with a lingering bad feeling.

We should have a crack of antihistamines which only lasted for 1-2h.

 

[fugme]

Well there is alimemazine with half life of less than 5 hours. That's a lot shorter duration than these 3 antihistamines. Depends if you only want to fall asleep, but have no trouble staying asleep then triazolam equivalent of antihistamines would be good. For me i need something that would last through the night with not residual effects. Too bad i have a lot of diphenhydramine pills i don't know what to do about...

 

[negrogesic]

Well there is alimemazine with half life of less than 5 hours. That's a lot shorter duration than these 3 antihistamines. Depends if you only want to fall asleep, but have no trouble staying asleep then triazolam equivalent of antihistamines would be good. For me i need something that would last through the night with not residual effects. Too bad i have a lot of diphenhydramine pills i don't know what to do about...

Phenothiazine type antihistamines like alimenazine are a bit different than drugs like diphenhydramine etc, as they are promiscuous antagonists that generally block quite abit more than just histamine, so its hard to compare against diphenhydramine, hydroxyzine

 

[fugme]

Phenothiazine type antihistamines like alimenazine are a bit different than drugs like diphenhydramine etc, as they are promiscuous antagonists that generally block quite abit more than just histamine, so its hard to compare against diphenhydramine, hydroxyzine

That was quite informative! You seem to know a lot about these things.. can you suggest some other antihistamines that have short half-lives? Obviously some of them are also antipsychotics, but i'm interested about learning what more is there.

Also what are your thoughts on insufflation of crushed up diphenhydramine pills? Could this reduce the half-life or side effects?
I have 50mg pills that weigh 200mg and (seemingly) don't have too bad fillers, so i wouldn't worry about that.

 

[telepathetic]

I feel nothing from hydroxyzine. No anxiolysis, no sedation, nothing at all even up to 300mg. Diphenhydramkne is mildly anxiolytic and mildly sedating. Doxylamine is heavily sedating.

 

[Keif' Richards]

In short, I have always found Hydroxyzine (Vistaril) to be a superior drug to Diphenhydramine (Benadryl). It's a little comical when doctors prescribe Hydroxyzine for conditions like a panic attack, but I do believe Hydrozyine to be in the very least superior to Diphenhydramine. For instance, I believe that Diphenhydramine is a little bit less likely to cause certain side effects. I always felt like Diphenhydramine causes less Restless Legs Syndrome and akathisia in general.

They are both sedative antihistamines and they both behave in a pretty similar way, but I do feel that the Hydroxyzine is better for conditions like withdrawal.

 

[plumbus-nine]

I feel nothing from hydroxyzine. No anxiolysis, no sedation, nothing at all even up to 300mg. Diphenhydramkne is mildly anxiolytic and mildly sedating. Doxylamine is heavily sedating.

Three-hundred mg hydroxyzine? Whoa, guess we need more research about these old antihistaminergics. Always thought it was weird enough that my ex gf couldn't keep herself awake from one 50mg diphenhydramine when I could take one, two or ten of them and stay awake but seems we have more of this sort.

 

[Just a little pinprick]

150 mg hydroxyzine puts me right to sleep at night

 

[fugme]

In short, I have always found Hydroxyzine (Vistaril) to be a superior drug to Diphenhydramine (Benadryl). It's a little comical when doctors prescribe Hydroxyzine for conditions like a panic attack, but I do believe Hydrozyine to be in the very least superior to Diphenhydramine. For instance, I believe that Diphenhydramine is a little bit less likely to cause certain side effects. I always felt like Diphenhydramine causes less Restless Legs Syndrome and akathisia in general.

They are both sedative antihistamines and they both behave in a pretty similar way, but I do feel that the Hydroxyzine is better for conditions like withdrawal.

150 mg hydroxyzine puts me right to sleep at night

Neither of you provided additional information about side effects when waking up, like 12 hours after ingestion (8 hours sleep + 4 hours morning) etc.

thank you all for contributing to this thread!

 

[JTemperance]

Phenothiazine type antihistamines like alimenazine are a bit different than drugs like diphenhydramine etc, as they are promiscuous antagonists that generally block quite abit more than just histamine, so its hard to compare against diphenhydramine, hydroxyzine

I'd like to try alimemazine (aka trimeprazine) and levomepromazine (aka methotrimeprazine). I know the latter is Rx'd for insomnia under the brand name "Nozinan" in Canada and New Zealand, among other places, whereas the former seems to be restricted to continental Europe (excluding veterinary use). Methdilazine ("Dilosyn") is another one from the phenothiazine category that I'd be interested in sampling, I know it's relatively common in India, at least. Oxomemazine is another one on the list; it's the main ingredient in the cough syrup "Toplexil," which is OTC and widely used in a lot of places (France is one I know for sure).

I don't know what happened to him, but Nicomorphinist (a Bluelight poster active in 2020) was truly a guru as far as antihistamines/anticholinergics were concerned... I was genuinely in awe of his knowledge and experience with them. I share his passion to an extent, something that I would never have anticipated in my pre-opiate days, when Benadryl gave me horrible restlessness. Due to the piss-poor AH situation in the US -- cyclizine and phenyltoloxamine having been removed from OTC shelves within the last 15 years, maddeningly, when no law compelled it -- I feel fortunate to have even sampled such banal examples as pheniramine, triprolidine, pyrilamine, and hydroxyzine.

His posts gave me a hunger to seek out some of the anticholinergic class members, which seem to have a certain euphoria -- especially trihexyphenidyl aka "Artane" and biperiden aka "Akineton', but also ones that are easier to overlook, like dicycloverine aka "Bentyl" (indiciated for stomach spasms or plain old hyoscine[/scopolamine] HCl aka "Kwells" (an OTC motion-sickness remedy in NZ/AUS). Though some of the effects he reported from anticholingerics seemed to be so amazing that it was kind of beyond belief....

 

[Illyria99]

I take approximately 100mg of diphenhydramine every night for sleep. It definitely works for me, usually within an hour or so. But I won't do larger doses anymore because I'm NOT a fan of hallucination-filled nights. I don't want the Shadow People to visit me again.

 

[Xorkoth]

Ever tried doxylamine? It's similar and OTC. I find it much better for sleep than diphenhydramine, a single 25mg one will send me right out (after an hour). I an take 2 or 3 diphenhydramines and sometimes sleep, sometimes not. Doxylamine even works against minor withdrawal for me.

 

[negrogesic]

I'd like to try alimemazine (aka trimeprazine) and levomepromazine (aka methotrimeprazine). I know the latter is Rx'd for insomnia under the brand name "Nozinan" in Canada and New Zealand, among other places, whereas the former seems to be restricted to continental Europe (excluding veterinary use). Methdilazine ("Dilosyn") is another one from the phenothiazine category that I'd be interested in sampling, I know it's relatively common in India, at least. Oxomemazine is another one on the list; it's the main ingredient in the cough syrup "Toplexil," which is OTC and widely used in a lot of places (France is one I know for sure).

I don't know what happened to him, but Nicomorphinist (a Bluelight poster active in 2020) was truly a guru as far as antihistamines/anticholinergics were concerned... I was genuinely in awe of his knowledge and experience with them. I share his passion to an extent, something that I would never have anticipated in my pre-opiate days, when Benadryl gave me horrible restlessness. Due to the piss-poor AH situation in the US -- cyclizine and phenyltoloxamine having been removed from OTC shelves within the last 15 years, maddeningly, when no law compelled it -- I feel fortunate to have even sampled such banal examples as pheniramine, triprolidine, pyrilamine, and hydroxyzine.

His posts gave me a hunger to seek out some of the anticholinergic class members, which seem to have a certain euphoria -- especially trihexyphenidyl aka "Artane" and biperiden aka "Akineton', but also ones that are easier to overlook, like dicycloverine aka "Bentyl" (indiciated for stomach spasms or plain old hyoscine[/scopolamine] HCl aka "Kwells" (an OTC motion-sickness remedy in NZ/AUS). Though some of the effects he reported from anticholingerics seemed to be so amazing that it was kind of beyond belief....

Yeah i miss his posts too. He called it "sexy trihexy". God bless you @Nicomorphinist wherever you are.

The euphoria of some of these antihistamines, by appearance of the compounds themselves, would seem to be from monoamine reuptake inhibition. Interestingly, some of the synthetic cathinones have weak anticholinergic properties. In any event there is some degree of overlap in the structure of antihistamines and stimulants, particularly reuptake inhibitors.

Doxylamine has a hint of something. Never tried "sexy trihexy" or course but i have read essentially all the easily accessible experience reports. Not something i would go out of my way to try, but also something that i would take if i had it laying around, just out of curiosity.

 

[fugme]

If anybody has some experience with alimemazine i'd be happy to hear about it. Of course i wouldn't recommend it for the general public, since it's related to antipsychotics like negrogesic said. But hey if it works well, has short half-life i'd use it once a week or two!

 

[Just a little pinprick]

Neither of you provided additional information about side effects when waking up, like 12 hours after ingestion (8 hours sleep + 4 hours morning) etc.

thank you all for contributing to this thread!

I’m only on my 2nd script of 50 mg tablets that were givin to me for anxiety, for sleep I’ll take 3 and be sleeping within the hour I’ll get a good 4-5 hrs sleep wake up and doze right back off, by morning there’s nothing left to feel, no lasting eff3cts for me like seroquel has, I take 1-2 tablets during the day just 5o help take the edge off the day,I also make a point of taking them along with other substances, it’s been about two months and they’re still working for me, I take th3m at least 4 days a week