Opioids Hydrocone makes pain worse???

[ColoradoBoy90]

Okay so my wife has had back pain daily for months now. Doctor gave me 5mg hydrocodone only 15 per month to use "as needed". What's weird is:First Ibuprofen helped the pain to numb it out. Then she injured her back possibly again, and now Advil/tyneol does nothing at all. She took 5mg hydro and said it made her back feel more pressure and no pain relief. Weird. How/why would 5mg of Vicodin make more pressure feeling in back? Nothing OTC works. If she took 10mg to 15mg of hydrocodone at once should that work? If so then maybe she could go to pain Doctor instead of a primary care doctor who won't give much meds.I'm just scared to tell her to try a Higher dosage and the pressure triples. She has zero tolerance so I'm surprised Advil worked better then hydro. I know that means inflammation related If Advil worked, but now taking 4-6 tablets of Advil + 2 tyneols + and even Aleeve doesn't help one bit..Any ideas on what to try? Upping dosage and hope it works? Oxycodone better to try? Or morphine? I know each drug acts differently so maybe those ones wouldn't cause "pressure". I'm really not sure where to start and she's just living with pain. She would only take pain killers max of 3 days of week to never get hooked. And on other days try chriopractor and massage and lots and lots of pain creams as those hell being it down a lot, but not enough. She wants to at least have her 2 days off with no pain, and since OTC meds don't work not sure what to tell her to try.

 

[George27]

now taking 4-6 tablets of Advil + 2 tyneols + and even Aleeve doesn't help one bit..Any ideas on what to try?

Few days ago I was there too. I have been baffled by the ineffectiveness of drugs that usually work also for moderate/severe pain,
ibuprofen and codeine this time doing really little. I've spent some nights on my knees ( lay down was impossible and that was the most pain-free position) popping codeine and cursing...

Try 10mg Hydro once a day for some hours of possible relief, to take a breath from pain. Opiates probably would work alltime, but only taking a lot.

And pick up the King of antiinflammatories, corticosteorids. Stop Advil and give a try to betamatasone IM.
If there is an important contrapture, a muscle relaxer helps ( Lyrica)
Another idea is to do a MRI and get a real diagnosis.

Ok, then I mail you the invoice for my pretty professional medical advices

 

[Tinker55]

Some people experience rebound pain from the use of opiates. No body can predict how this happens or why. Lidocaine patches have the same effect for me-within 10 minutes, I am peeling the thing off because of pain.

Skip the pain doctor and go to either a spine specialist or a neurosurgeon. She needs to know why she's experiencing this, not just treat the symptoms. It amazes me how many people aren't aware that a diagnosis may lead to relief and there are a lot of ways to treat without pills.

 

[George27]

She would only take pain killers max of 3 days of week to never get hooked

Sometimes I brood over the utility of opiates for pain.
To manage breaktrough pain they are a godsend, with a high enough dose they can treat almost all pains.
But if the pain linger? If you keep on taking, you get phisically addicted. Not nice.
If the pain is cronic, then they loose potency also upping the dose.
But with 1 months of back pain? At the end there will be a detox, and it's really worth it?

 

[Ksa]

Sometimes I brood over the utility of opiates for pain.
To manage breaktrough pain they are a godsend, with a high enough dose they can treat almost all pains.
But if the pain linger? If you keep on taking, you get phisically addicted. Not nice.
If the pain is cronic, then they loose potency also upping the dose.
But with 1 months of back pain? At the end there will be a detox, and it's really worth it?

A detox...get over yourself dude, you're nobody. Stop stroking your ego with non-sense...detox, from 5mg of hydro. Wow.

You get a detox if you shoot Heroin.

 

[shadowstryker]

A detox...get over yourself dude, you're nobody. Stop stroking your ego with non-sense...detox, from 5mg of hydro. Wow.

You get a detox if you shoot Heroin.

You can be physically depended to any opiate, regardless of how strong or weak it is. Heroin is just another opiate. However, you're right there's no conceivable say I could imagine 5mg hydrocodone a day, or in this case let's just say every other day, would ever cause physical dependency.

 

[ColoradoBoy90]

She's given 5mg only 10 to 15 per MONTH. That's 1 tablet every 2 or 3 days. And she doesn't even take that much. Only 2 5mg per WEEK. It's a primary doctor who will only prescribe: limited amounts of:
Morphine, hydro, and Percs. Or a full daily dosage of tramadol or tynel 3 but those won't do crap and may lead to addiction taken daily. She wants to only take 2 pills per week, just to be pain free on her days off work. When she works the pain is less noticeable as she's always on her feet moving 24/7 for crap pay.

She already has seen me going through W/D as I'm also on pain killers but much much more than her.. So he refuses to take any she's prescribed besides on her 2 days off. She's stubborn. But it also SMART.

I suggested a chriopractor with X-rays first, because that's only $100. We don't have insurance besides cheap bottom of the barrel where they pay like 1% it's insanity. So getting to a good doctor can't be afforded, for now.

For now she only plans on taking the hydros 2 days per week, on her days off, just to have no pain on days off, and maybe asking for something else as 1-2 hours after taking hydro she tells me her back feels more pressure. I was like are you sure??? She's either lying and hates pain killers or maybe it's real, I don't know. I have never heard of opiods not working unless she low on endorphins or something?

 

[cjh1221]

Okay so my wife has had back pain daily for months now. Doctor gave me 5mg hydrocodone only 15 per month to use "as needed". What's weird is:First Ibuprofen helped the pain to numb it out. Then she injured her back possibly again, and now Advil/tyneol does nothing at all. She took 5mg hydro and said it made her back feel more pressure and no pain relief. Weird. How/why would 5mg of Vicodin make more pressure feeling in back? Nothing OTC works. If she took 10mg to 15mg of hydrocodone at once should that work? If so then maybe she could go to pain Doctor instead of a primary care doctor who won't give much meds.I'm just scared to tell her to try a Higher dosage and the pressure triples. She has zero tolerance so I'm surprised Advil worked better then hydro. I know that means inflammation related If Advil worked, but now taking 4-6 tablets of Advil + 2 tyneols + and even Aleeve doesn't help one bit..Any ideas on what to try? Upping dosage and hope it works? Oxycodone better to try? Or morphine? I know each drug acts differently so maybe those ones wouldn't cause "pressure". I'm really not sure where to start and she's just living with pain. She would only take pain killers max of 3 days of week to never get hooked. And on other days try chriopractor and massage and lots and lots of pain creams as those hell being it down a lot, but not enough. She wants to at least have her 2 days off with no pain, and since OTC meds don't work not sure what to tell her to try.

My first instinct is to ask where the back pain is located. If it's lower, in the actual kidney region (not where everyone thinks the kidneys are) it's likely the hydro is making it worse because there is a kidney issue and opiates/oids are rough on them

The word "pressure" points my mind automatically to kidney inflammation or enlargement, indicating the possibility of a dysfunction of some sort. I could be way off base but it seems logical based on your wording and description.The second point I want to make is that it is safe to combine Tylenol with Advil OR Aleve, it is not safe to combine Aleve and Ibuprofen. They are both NSAIDS and she is probably going to do more damage than it's worth. Not to mention add strain on her already (presumably) poorly functioning kidneys.
I wouldn't recommend upping the dose of hydros because she will use them up far too quickly and have to suffer longer before getting a refill.
You're best bet is to talk to your doctor and be firm. If he isn't willing to investigate further as to the cause of her pain I would ask for a second opinion and/or a referral to a specialist. Imaging (x-rays, MRIs, something should be done to rule out certain things and know better how to treat her pain based on the findings.
some doctors overlook the obvious more often than they would like to admit but remember, he works for you, not vice-versa.
Please don't let her combine NSADS, either take the 1-2 Aleve a day and suppliment with Tylenol if needed but don't take ibuprofen and Aleve during the same 24- hour period. If she doesn't have stomach, liver, or kidney problems already, no need to create them or exacerbate them if she does.

 

[KronicUser]

Im currently scipted for 900 mgs of Neurontin per day and 20mg hydro per day (2x 10/325) for nerve pain + back pain. One thing you may request that your wife ask to her doctor is a script for Tramadol. 50mg 2x a day does help for moderate pain every day and it honestly does help (just my experience but I've dealt with a lot of other people in physical therapy + pain management). I just grew a tolerance to it after 6+ months taking it and had to go to pain management once I couldn't take it anymore for pain without taking over 400+ mg per day which can make you have seizures if not careful. Tramadol doesn't give too many bad side effects like the other opiates do and it will prob help her pain. As said above I wouldn't recommend upping the hydro dose as that may be too much and make her high instead of helping the pain (who doesn't like the high but if you're in pain you need it medicinally more..) In my history of pain I would recommend her to talk to her doctor about physical therapy plus a script for about 60 50mg tramadol and that may help.

 

[ColoradoBoy90]

Alright maybe I'll show her this thread.

Doctors sadly are expensive with the bottom of the bottom insurance it's 99% or our pocket $200 per doctor visit plus medications and discounted like 20% of retail.

And yeah, I have her 2-3 Advils and 2 tyneols once night and she said didn't notice a difference. I don't mix the Advil and Aleeve just some days some Advil others use Aleeve.

I got the "new" fast acting Advil "provided as ibuprofen sodium 256mg". Says film coated ibuprofen sodium. Claims its father acting and more powerful...Is it any better or just a gimmick? Claims "fast Powerful pain relief in minutes".

The weird thing is 2-3 weeks ago Advil use to the pain quite a bit and hydro also worked at the time to dull it. But then she got hit my a car on foot (nothing major but increases her back pain). So unless her kidneys started to fail in the last 2 weeks or got damaged, I don't get why it worked 2 weeks ago but AFTER the accident she claims she feels more pressure, I believe it's like middle of back more upper then lower.

But I have much worse back and neck pain and spasms constantly and muscle relaxers+ hydro and Opana knocks the pain our a lot. Sometimes given Percs to replaced hydro to "switch them up my doctor says. Maybe to help tolerance he claims". But I pay around $600 monthly for my meds and dr visit. My pills are too strong for her, and I wouldn't give them away anyways.. I'm too careful and don't want to do anything that could get me in trouble and lose my pain contract then I'm screwed. I even lock my meds in a safe so only I have access to them lol. Plus I need every one, as they are counted, and I take them exaxly as prescribed so one pill short = I suffer for that day.

We can't afford another doctor or God forbid her going to a pain doctor they would be 1K per month.. So she's stuck with the regular doctor and all Tests are mostly out of pocket horrible health insurance.

Sad thing is a few months ago I had a job with some of the BEST insurance ever. 20$ a month for full PPO coverage. Meds where like $2. And brand name was like $5 even when I was told "there is no way they will fiber brand roxi or brand Vicodin" but they did for a few bucks. Now we for the worst coverage possible after I got let go.

 

[KronicUser]

as to the fast acting Advil it probably just has a thinner coat than the rest which means it'll kick in a little bit quicker. But if she's not getting any pain relief off the other Advil then it prolly wont help. She's probably just either 1) gotten a tolerance to acetaminophen or 2) a tolerance to the hydrocodone .. If absolutely needed then have her take 2x her dose daily which may help her pain but that's going to mean she's going to go through her script 2x quicker which will piss off the doc and the pharmacy if you need a refill... Or another option prior to that is have her eat about 3-4 tums prior to her pain dose (each tums is about 500mg calcium carbonate) about an hour prior to her taking her pain med. That may help the drug last longer in her system. I'm only speaking on personal experience on potentiating an opiate dose which has helped with my pain in the past and in the present. Also another idea would be to have her drink some white grapefruit juice about 1-2 hours prior to her taking a pain pill. I try to make my doses last as long as they can and the above tips do help vs taking 2x the dose, so maybe have her try that first. Also from my own experience lose the family doctor and go to an orthopedic as they can prescribe more than what a family doctor can, especially if you're talking about broken bones, etc... I'm just giving my own personal experiences from dealing with daily pain (a 7/10 on the pain scale) every day and dealing with multiple doctors.

 

[ColoradoBoy90]

What about alka seltzer? That would help PH.

And remember she told me she will only take the "strong stuff" 2X a week, only ok her 2 days off. The other 5 days she goes without it. Just want pain relief for 2 days off so she's not always moody....So she only NEEDS 8 PILLS a month, just on days off.

We called doctor and for after hours but he called back, and he said this (which I find crazy):

He offered:
1.) 10 pills a month 15mg oxy extended l release only 10 tablets a month (she told him she only will take 8 pills a month to avoid addiction and tolerance. He agreed). That's a big boost! That's 18mg hydro with 20% tolerance cross reduction. But then again it's equal to 22mg hydro over 12 hours. So no difference than taking 10mg twice.


2) 10 pills per month of 30mg Morphine extended release. That's equal to 22mg hydro with a 20% cross tolerance reduction. But again it's slow release.

3: Tyneol 3 or tramadol. If hydro 5mg doesn't work no way tramadol will being so weak on mu receptors.

3) 10 pills a month 10mg hydro instead of 5mg. This seems to make the most sense... It's not a major increase like the others.

Remember she only takes to take 2 pills per week which is equal to 8 pills a
Month. She just wants pain relief on her days off so she doesn't sleep them off..

She's NOT tolerance to hydro just started on them recently and has taken maybe 6-10 of the 5mg hydros over 2-3 months. So no tolerance. So would 15mg oxy be too much? I'm sure you can't OD on that little, nor with 30MG morphine...

But one LAST QUESTION: if she takes morphine 30mg ER, can the extended release be cut in half and retain its ER properties? Or will it become 15mg IR of morphine instead of 15mg ER morphine...

Just trying to find pain relief for bad days only 8 max pills a month rest will be chriopractor etc. Maybe a chriopractor will be enough to make her not need any?! All I know is on her days off she sits on silence, in pain, hardly talks, at this rate I see no future so trying to help save it.'

 

[maggells]

Take the oxy. Best oral bioavailability and usually gives a bit of an energy boost along with the pain relief. The extended release will slowly spread out the dose throughout the day to help keep pain levels down instead of only getting a couple of hours of relief with the hydro then having, what sounds to me, like rebound pain. Morphine tends to be more sedating than oxy so unless she is wanting pain relief at night to sleep it may not be the best option. Unless extended release pills are crushed you usually still have some of the time release but it does have the potential to release quicker. Half of a 15mg oxy is equivalent to approx 10mg of hydro anyway so she could break and take a half or break and crush and take if immediate increased pain relief was needed. Also, tramadol works very differently from typical opioids so even if the narcotics do not work as well right now it does not mean the tramadol would not work for her. Not the one I would go with at all though with those options available. At least this doc is giving her options, many don't. Good luck and hope she feels better after the chiropractor!

 

[cjh1221]

Time release does not mean that it releases ?mg./hr. The 15 mg. time release means she will be getting the total mg. split over the 12 hour period. Here is an explanation I wrote up for another thread but I'll link to it to save myself from typing it out again.

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...ose-of-oxycontin-last?p=13534891#post13534891

Im sure you can figure out which one I'm referring to.

Just to let you know, even taking it as infrequently as she does, she will eventually develop a bit of a tolerance to it. It will just take a long time. The doctor is an idiot by the way. She really needs to get to the bottom of the pain and figure out why it's happening. Treating the symptoms doesn't cure the disease.

As for insurance...sounds like you'd be better off without it. You should look into Obamacare (I know boooo! But it's really not as bad as everyone thinks. Another option, depending on your financial situation is state insurance or hospital free care. The income guidelines are really a lot higher than most would think and the services are excellent. I would definitely try to fix the insurance situation. Suffering physically should not have to happen because you can't afford decent medical care. Look into it....it can't hurt to try.

 

[Tinker55]

I apologize for repeating myself-but she won't need a "pain doctor" if she finds out what's causing her back pain. Her PCP should be doing this anyway, not writing tiny scripts of pills. And a chiropractor will not help.

 

[ColoradoBoy90]

No to chriopractor? Sometimes I feel better after an adjustment.

The ONLY reason for pain pain (only 8 pills a month, on days off, never more than 2 days in a row. So 6-8 pills per month that's it. Unlikely addiction or tolerance will be an issue).

This is a TEMP FIX until we get either 1) New health insurance or 2) Save up enough money to get tests done. It will cost thousands to get test done with our insurance... Even with top notch insurance Things like MRI costed me $900 because of detictibule wasn't met yet. And if we do option 1, we still have to pay like 2k to 5K out of picket before insurance kicks in.

So far now, 6 pills or so a month won't hurt for a TEMP solution until we can get tests done or get better insurance.

 

[Tinker55]

One idea is to go to your local hospital and talk to the social work department. They deal with uninsured and low income problems all the time. Whether it's Obamacare, Medicaid or potentially charitable program, they might have some info for you.

Why would you go to a chiro when there's no diagnosis?