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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Harm Reduction Hydrocodone Cwe effectiveness

4

417slush

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 14, 2021
Messages
29
So a little background. I normally take 3 10/325 Hydrocodones once in the morning and the same dose at night. Unfortunately I could only obtain 5/325 pills this go around. So I have been popping 3 and doing a simple cwe on the other 3 to cut out the APAP. Browsing around on the web I have found some articles stating there can be as much as 60% of the APAP still in the extraction. I have only done the Cwe 3 times(once yesterday morning then lastnight and this morning)and am now freaking out I have done damage to my liver. Do you guys think the 60% figure sounds right? My extraction is for the most part clear when I am finished with maybe a slight cloudiness to the water. I'm a fairly large man 6ft 8 around 360lbs, not sure if that would have any effect if I were to be getting more APAP than I hoped for. My ultimate goal is to completely get off the meds. I'm thinking of trying to cut out the morning dose and just taking the 30mg at night and slowly lowering it. I have been taking Hydrocodone for years off and on and just want to minimize the WD as much as possible. Thanks in advance for any advice.
 
Guess I should have gave a little insight into my cwe process. I crush the 3 pills, add 30ml refrigerator cold bottle water. Mix it up really good, let it sit untill the solids are on the bottem.Then filter it through a damp coffee filter.
 
30mL is way too much for 3 pills, hydrocodone is very soluble in cold water. You should use much less water, otherwise you won't really get rid of most of the paracetamol (that's probably why your solution looks cloudy, it should be clear).
To maximize the separation I'd advise mixing it very well and putting the solution back into the fridge before filtering, it should be ice cold but not frozen. You can also pass some ice cold water through the filter beforehand.
 
4meSM said:
30mL is way too much for 3 pills, hydrocodone is very soluble in cold water. You should use much less water, otherwise you won't really get rid of most of the paracetamol (that's probably why your solution looks cloudy, it should be clear).
To maximize the separation I'd advise mixing it very well and putting the solution back into the fridge before filtering, it should be ice cold but not frozen. You can also pass some ice cold water through the filter beforehand.
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How much water should I use? I was just using a pepto cup. Would 15ml be a better amount?So say worst case if I got all the APAP from the pills would 5850mg in a 24 hour time span be enough to cause any liver issues you think?
 
I would wash all my pills at once to minimize loss…wash then all in as little water as possible then filter the water into a Pyrex and leave out to evaporate off then scrape up what’s left on the Pyrex and dose by weight of the powder
 
417slush said:
How much water should I use? I was just using a pepto cup. Would 15ml be a better amount?So say worst case if I got all the APAP from the pills would 5850mg in a 24 hour time span be enough to cause any liver issues you think?
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Well doing a cwe on 3 pills is a bit pointless to be honest, you should wash your daily dose all at once, or eventually do one big wash as @Las Veghost grower said (but start with your daily dose first just in case).
The solubility of hydrocodone is around 800mg/mL (depending on the formulation) while paracetamol's is about ~14mg/mL. So you should use the minimum amount necessary to dissolve the pills, but no less than ~5mL because it will turn into a paste which is very difficult to filter.
If you use 30mL you will have at least 420mg of paracetamol in your solution, maybe slightly more as some of it can pass through the pores of the filter.
I'd try 20-40mL for 18 pills (your daily dose), start low and add a bit more water if it's too sticky to filter, just remember to let if sit in the fridge until it gets ice cold.

And yeah 5850mg could be problematic, you definitely don't want to be consuming anywhere near that amount on a daily basis.
 
OK thanks for the tips I will give it a try tonight. Thinking about it I guess my APAP intake wouldn't have been quite so bad since it was like 21 hours between dose 1 and 3 so the first would have basically been out of my system but still much more than I am comfortable with.
 
Would you recommend using a coffee filter or a couple of layers of paper towels? I only ask because the coffee filter seems to get clogged fairly easily.
 
And should I start with cold water or warm water. I see different recommendations.
 
If the final product is pretty much water clear does that mean most of the APAP is gone?
 
417slush said:
So a little background. I normally take 3 10/325 Hydrocodones once in the morning and the same dose at night. Unfortunately I could only obtain 5/325 pills this go around. So I have been popping 3 and doing a simple cwe on the other 3 to cut out the APAP. Browsing around on the web I have found some articles stating there can be as much as 60% of the APAP still in the extraction. I have only done the Cwe 3 times(once yesterday morning then lastnight and this morning)and am now freaking out I have done damage to my liver. Do you guys think the 60% figure sounds right? My extraction is for the most part clear when I am finished with maybe a slight cloudiness to the water. I'm a fairly large man 6ft 8 around 360lbs, not sure if that would have any effect if I were to be getting more APAP than I hoped for. My ultimate goal is to completely get off the meds. I'm thinking of trying to cut out the morning dose and just taking the 30mg at night and slowly lowering it. I have been taking Hydrocodone for years off and on and just want to minimize the WD as much as possible. Thanks in advance for any advice.
Click to expand...

I made an account on here to respond to this, it's that important. So many people don't even realize the difference in effectiveness of medicine when it comes to weight. Doctors dose babies and children by weight, but somehow completely ignore the fact that we adult humans ALSO vary in weight and height significantly! Especially here in the US, where obesity is a serious issue due to the poor food quality we have. Your height and weight are on the extreme end and so your doctor (and you, of course) should definitely be dosing by weight. That's probably why you need to take 3 at a time.

I am nowhere near your size, but I am a larger lady and I need to take more than the standard recommendation of "1-2" a dose. I have been taking my meds for 11 years, tolerance does increase no matter how carefully you take your medicine. It's what the human body does. Doctors are showing their ignorance by not dosing people by weight. This is something that must be addressed, it is causing a lot of issues.

As for the Tylenol (APAP), yes you can definitely take more than the 4k a day because of your size and weight. It's hard to find, but you can find a Tylenol dosing chart by weight and then just do the math. I am positive that your 5850 is safe for you. Of course we always want to keep it as low as we can to reduce the chance of liver damage, but the way they are overlooking this is just shameful!

BTW, I take Zohydro since I need more every day and other meds either don't work for me or make me sick. It's not fun because I can't switch out to keep tolerance low. I am stuck with hydrocodone it seems, but at least there's one medication that works for my serious pain since my genetic condition is incurable and I will be taking pain meds for the rest of my life.
 
It's going to depend highly on your technique and how thoroughly you perform the extraction. If you're doing something every single morning, it's possible to get careless. Perhaps doing things too quickly, not pulverizing the tablets well enough, things like that. However, I feel that if you're doing everything responsibly, I highly doubt that the extraction would only be 40% effective.

There aren't a lot of steps in the process in which mistakes could be made if you're paying attention. Not only that, the science of the process is pretty easy for most people to understand, so by doing the process completely, with the proper temperature of water, you should know you've done it right.
 
In the end, even if you have a cloudy solution, if you have removed 98% of the para, which is not difficult, you win. It seems to me that people still struggle with "properly performing a CW extraction", when it is easier than falling off a log, really. Not being a dick, just saying that once you tinker a bit with it, you can do it in a short amount of time and reduce the amount of para by nearly 100%. Will you lose a small amount of active ingredient, and going nuts with paper filters will only contribute to that happening. Once you get it down properly, there is no need to even use a filter if you know what you're doing.

In the end, crushing pills is absolutely unnecessary, as they break down in water within minutes. You can watch it happen before your eyes, obviously. With minor stirring, even less. Once again, CWE seems to me to be something that people tend to over-complicate. All you need is a glass container, water and a decent pipette. Everything else pretty much takes care of itself. I would also recommend doing small batches of a few pills until you get it down, and even then, I see no need to do large batches anyway if the only goal is reasonable personal use and wanting to do away with the APAP consumption, which of course is the purpose anyway.
 
The Shadow Self said:
In the end, even if you have a cloudy solution, if you have removed 98% of the para, which is not difficult, you win. It seems to me that people still struggle with "properly performing a CW extraction", when it is easier than falling off a log, really. Not being a dick, just saying that once you tinker a bit with it, you can do it in a short amount of time and reduce the amount of para by nearly 100%. Will you lose a small amount of active ingredient, and going nuts with paper filters will only contribute to that happening. Once you get it down properly, there is no need to even use a filter if you know what you're doing.

In the end, crushing pills is absolutely unnecessary, as they break down in water within minutes. You can watch it happen before your eyes, obviously. With minor stirring, even less. Once again, CWE seems to me to be something that people tend to over-complicate. All you need is a glass container, water and a decent pipette. Everything else pretty much takes care of itself. I would also recommend doing small batches of a few pills until you get it down, and even then, I see no need to do large batches anyway if the only goal is reasonable personal use and wanting to do away with the APAP consumption, which of course is the purpose anyway.
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It’s called decanting , and best to use a filter
 
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