Bojangles2.0
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2012
- Messages
- 64
How To Extract Sodium Hydroxide (LYE) From Drano (NaOH, NaNO3, Al) - TUTORIAL
I want to make something clear. I am NOT posting this for the production of illicit compounds.
Over a decade ago, I use to own and operate a meth lab. Red Devil Lye was widely available back then. But spending time in prison is no joke (I did 2 years for that shit).
So why am I posting this?
I have taken up a new hobby a few months ago. The production of dry HHO cells (for oxyhydrogen torches). However, I'm not a member on any HHO forums
and don't plan on joining just to post this. Then there's the fact that BL has more authority, so this page is more likely to pop up on Google than a post on an HHO forum.
I'd also like to post this on BL just to piss off the assholes who took Red Devil Lye off the shelves cause of a few bad apples (I was one of those apples).
We don't take alcohol off the market cause of all the drunk driving deaths do we?
We don't take tobacco off the shelves cause of all the people dying from lung cancer?
But we take lye off the shelves cause off a few bad apples?
Since I'm that pissed, and was 1 of those people who played a role in getting Red Devil taking off the shelves, I'm going to "make it right" with society by posting this simple method.
Backstory: I had just ordered a $180 HHO Dry Cell online and forgot to order lye because I *thought* I would be easy to find locally (which it's not).
Anyone who knows anything about dry cells knows you need very pure lye cause anything else (like baking soda) with oxidize the cells.
Last night I went to Lowes to buy "Drano Professional Strength Crystals". The front of the container said "active ingredients - caustic" so I assumed it was pretty pure.
It wasn't. I got home, check the MSDS and see this shit....
Equal Parts - Sodium Hydroxide
Equal Parts - Sodium Nitrate
5% - Aluminum
I immediately knew with my background in chemistry, this wouldn't be easy to separate. I studied the melting points, solubility curves and properties of both the main ingredients. I noticed that sodium nitrate melts around the same point, and has a solubility curve that wouldn't make it easy to extract the lye. Not to mention, I did not have the proper lab equipment to even attempt a solubility extraction. You can't use pyrex coffee glasses, you can't use chemistry grade flasks or beakers, you can't use any form of glass since hot lye in water will crack the seams (this happened to me back in the day and it was a disaster to clean up).
So I searched for hours on end,
"How to extract lye from drano"
"How to extract sodium hydroxide from sodium nitrate"
"How to extract sodium nitrate from sodium hydroxide"
I saw the NaNO3 is insoluble in acetone. But lye reacts with acetone.
Both are soluble in gylcerin, alcohol, etc.... there seemed to be no easy way to do this.
Eventually I said "f##k it! I'll just order it online" EVEN THOUGH I did not want to wait another 4-5 days just to test my brand new cell. I already waited a week and was dying to try this thing out.
But then it hit me like a lightning bolt. "I DON'T HAVE TO 'SEPARATE' THE CHEMICALS"!
The solution is way SIMPLER than I could have ever thought.
Disclaimer: Before I start. If anyone is going to do this, make sure you wear glasses, gloves, cover as much of your body up as you can. And use cast iron, NOT glass.
The melting point of NaOH is 318C
The melting point of NaNO3 is 308C
More importantly, the decomposition rate of NaNO3 (aka as the "boiling point") is 380C
So I took a small, old, cast iron pot out that I never use. The pot should be as small as possible because bigger pots will diffuse the heat and be hard to maintain a hot temperature.
I threw it on my gas (methane) stove. These stoves can get pretty hot. Wikipedia says 900-1500C.
However, all stoves are different. And that's the alleged temperature of the >>flame.
Once you put an iron skillet over the top, then put say 1/4-1/2 cup of Drano in it, the temperature in the pot will drop and diffuse just to keep the pot hot and the Drano melted.
I personally think the temperature of the pot and the melted drano was around 400-500C.
Anyway.
I put the Drano in the pot and it melted fairly quickly (took about 5-10 minutes). I THEN NOTICED the aluminum flakes were now a solid sitting in a liquid solution (they will NOT react with the melted solution). So I took a hacksaw blade, grabbed it with a wrench and it was super simple to scrape these aluminum flakes into a pile, then take them out of the pot (took like 1 minute to do).
That removes all the Al.
Next.
You have to look for bubbling. But it should NOT bubble that fast. You want the sodium nitrate to slowly break down to sodium nitrite, then if you keep it going the sodium nitrite will convert to sodium oxide.
It will take about an hour to break down 1/4-1/2 cup of drano.
I also used a propane torch because as the sodium nitrate goes to nitrite to oxide... it RAISES the melting point of the ENTIRE mixture. So the longer this mixture is on the stove, the harder it will become to keep it melted.
That's why I'd periodically blast it with the propane torch.
I should also note, at first the nitrate will liberate pure oxygen. The nitrite however will liberate both nitrogen oxide and nitrogen dioxide.
So you will definitely want to do this in a ventilated area. And put an n-95 mask on. Just encase any sodium hydroxide boils, it won't make it to your lungs.
Overall the gaseous production wasn't that bad. When I was done, I simply let the pot COOL DOWN. You MUST let it cool down to room temperature. Then, you have a mix of NaOH and N2O. Whats ironic, you don't even need to add water. If you just let the cool mixture sit out for a day, it will absorb to much water that everything in the pot will convert to about 98% NAOH. Or if you're in a rush, add about 1/4 cup of water, dissolve it all, then boil it off.
Finally, I used my fish tank nitrate strips to test (they test for nitrites and nitrates) and it passed the test. The strip stayed white which means the conversion was done right.
ALTERNATIVELY, IF YOU WANT TO MAKE KOH or POTASSIUM HYDROXIDE
It's just as easy, except it requires slightly more heat.
All you have to do is buy a bottle of "stump remover" from Lowes. This stuff is 99% potassium nitrate.
Then all you'd have to do is repeat the same cooking process. Except with this mixture (since it's almost 100% nitrate as opposed to 50%) there will be twice as much oxygen, nitrogen oxide and nitrogen dioxide liberated = more ventilation.
Since I have stump remover, I plan on testing this next. But I'm going to do it outside and start a coal fire. I don't want to turn the ventilation system in my kitchen brown.
One final note: I really do recommend you either buy or keep a propane torch nearby. Cause like I said, the idea is to start off at a low temperature, let the nitrate go to nitrite, but as more and more oxide is created, it will be harder to keep the mixture solid. So you DON'T START with the propane torch. You watch the solution. When you see is "skinning" or "freezing" then you apply the torch. Otherwise you won't get a full conversion.
And if I can please reclarify, I'm posting this hear hoping that people will find it in Google. Because there are MANY people asking "where can I get lye" or "how can I extract lye from drano" but there are NO answers on the web. I also plan on doing a video on youtube, to actually show the process. And I'm doing this because I hate the US government. YES, I was arrested for a meth lab 12 years ago. YES, people DO use lye for making meth. But you have to be f##king kidding me if you think taking Red Devil Lye off the shelves is going to fix anything. I researched and found out the majority of people use this chemical to make soap, not to unclog their drains. Then a smaller segment were using it for making bio-diesel fuels. A smaller segment for cooking. And an even smaller segment for making meth. Then an even smaller segment (me) using it as an electrolyte for an HHO cell.
The point is, the chemical has a lot of uses. And this is how you can easily make it at home just by cooking the nitrate to an oxide then converting to hydroxide.
-Bo
I want to make something clear. I am NOT posting this for the production of illicit compounds.
Over a decade ago, I use to own and operate a meth lab. Red Devil Lye was widely available back then. But spending time in prison is no joke (I did 2 years for that shit).
So why am I posting this?
I have taken up a new hobby a few months ago. The production of dry HHO cells (for oxyhydrogen torches). However, I'm not a member on any HHO forums
and don't plan on joining just to post this. Then there's the fact that BL has more authority, so this page is more likely to pop up on Google than a post on an HHO forum.
I'd also like to post this on BL just to piss off the assholes who took Red Devil Lye off the shelves cause of a few bad apples (I was one of those apples).
We don't take alcohol off the market cause of all the drunk driving deaths do we?
We don't take tobacco off the shelves cause of all the people dying from lung cancer?
But we take lye off the shelves cause off a few bad apples?
Since I'm that pissed, and was 1 of those people who played a role in getting Red Devil taking off the shelves, I'm going to "make it right" with society by posting this simple method.
Backstory: I had just ordered a $180 HHO Dry Cell online and forgot to order lye because I *thought* I would be easy to find locally (which it's not).
Anyone who knows anything about dry cells knows you need very pure lye cause anything else (like baking soda) with oxidize the cells.
Last night I went to Lowes to buy "Drano Professional Strength Crystals". The front of the container said "active ingredients - caustic" so I assumed it was pretty pure.
It wasn't. I got home, check the MSDS and see this shit....
Equal Parts - Sodium Hydroxide
Equal Parts - Sodium Nitrate
5% - Aluminum
I immediately knew with my background in chemistry, this wouldn't be easy to separate. I studied the melting points, solubility curves and properties of both the main ingredients. I noticed that sodium nitrate melts around the same point, and has a solubility curve that wouldn't make it easy to extract the lye. Not to mention, I did not have the proper lab equipment to even attempt a solubility extraction. You can't use pyrex coffee glasses, you can't use chemistry grade flasks or beakers, you can't use any form of glass since hot lye in water will crack the seams (this happened to me back in the day and it was a disaster to clean up).
So I searched for hours on end,
"How to extract lye from drano"
"How to extract sodium hydroxide from sodium nitrate"
"How to extract sodium nitrate from sodium hydroxide"
I saw the NaNO3 is insoluble in acetone. But lye reacts with acetone.
Both are soluble in gylcerin, alcohol, etc.... there seemed to be no easy way to do this.
Eventually I said "f##k it! I'll just order it online" EVEN THOUGH I did not want to wait another 4-5 days just to test my brand new cell. I already waited a week and was dying to try this thing out.
But then it hit me like a lightning bolt. "I DON'T HAVE TO 'SEPARATE' THE CHEMICALS"!
The solution is way SIMPLER than I could have ever thought.
Disclaimer: Before I start. If anyone is going to do this, make sure you wear glasses, gloves, cover as much of your body up as you can. And use cast iron, NOT glass.
The melting point of NaOH is 318C
The melting point of NaNO3 is 308C
More importantly, the decomposition rate of NaNO3 (aka as the "boiling point") is 380C
So I took a small, old, cast iron pot out that I never use. The pot should be as small as possible because bigger pots will diffuse the heat and be hard to maintain a hot temperature.
I threw it on my gas (methane) stove. These stoves can get pretty hot. Wikipedia says 900-1500C.
However, all stoves are different. And that's the alleged temperature of the >>flame.
Once you put an iron skillet over the top, then put say 1/4-1/2 cup of Drano in it, the temperature in the pot will drop and diffuse just to keep the pot hot and the Drano melted.
I personally think the temperature of the pot and the melted drano was around 400-500C.
Anyway.
I put the Drano in the pot and it melted fairly quickly (took about 5-10 minutes). I THEN NOTICED the aluminum flakes were now a solid sitting in a liquid solution (they will NOT react with the melted solution). So I took a hacksaw blade, grabbed it with a wrench and it was super simple to scrape these aluminum flakes into a pile, then take them out of the pot (took like 1 minute to do).
That removes all the Al.
Next.
You have to look for bubbling. But it should NOT bubble that fast. You want the sodium nitrate to slowly break down to sodium nitrite, then if you keep it going the sodium nitrite will convert to sodium oxide.
It will take about an hour to break down 1/4-1/2 cup of drano.
I also used a propane torch because as the sodium nitrate goes to nitrite to oxide... it RAISES the melting point of the ENTIRE mixture. So the longer this mixture is on the stove, the harder it will become to keep it melted.
That's why I'd periodically blast it with the propane torch.
I should also note, at first the nitrate will liberate pure oxygen. The nitrite however will liberate both nitrogen oxide and nitrogen dioxide.
So you will definitely want to do this in a ventilated area. And put an n-95 mask on. Just encase any sodium hydroxide boils, it won't make it to your lungs.
Overall the gaseous production wasn't that bad. When I was done, I simply let the pot COOL DOWN. You MUST let it cool down to room temperature. Then, you have a mix of NaOH and N2O. Whats ironic, you don't even need to add water. If you just let the cool mixture sit out for a day, it will absorb to much water that everything in the pot will convert to about 98% NAOH. Or if you're in a rush, add about 1/4 cup of water, dissolve it all, then boil it off.
Finally, I used my fish tank nitrate strips to test (they test for nitrites and nitrates) and it passed the test. The strip stayed white which means the conversion was done right.
ALTERNATIVELY, IF YOU WANT TO MAKE KOH or POTASSIUM HYDROXIDE
It's just as easy, except it requires slightly more heat.
All you have to do is buy a bottle of "stump remover" from Lowes. This stuff is 99% potassium nitrate.
Then all you'd have to do is repeat the same cooking process. Except with this mixture (since it's almost 100% nitrate as opposed to 50%) there will be twice as much oxygen, nitrogen oxide and nitrogen dioxide liberated = more ventilation.
Since I have stump remover, I plan on testing this next. But I'm going to do it outside and start a coal fire. I don't want to turn the ventilation system in my kitchen brown.
One final note: I really do recommend you either buy or keep a propane torch nearby. Cause like I said, the idea is to start off at a low temperature, let the nitrate go to nitrite, but as more and more oxide is created, it will be harder to keep the mixture solid. So you DON'T START with the propane torch. You watch the solution. When you see is "skinning" or "freezing" then you apply the torch. Otherwise you won't get a full conversion.
And if I can please reclarify, I'm posting this hear hoping that people will find it in Google. Because there are MANY people asking "where can I get lye" or "how can I extract lye from drano" but there are NO answers on the web. I also plan on doing a video on youtube, to actually show the process. And I'm doing this because I hate the US government. YES, I was arrested for a meth lab 12 years ago. YES, people DO use lye for making meth. But you have to be f##king kidding me if you think taking Red Devil Lye off the shelves is going to fix anything. I researched and found out the majority of people use this chemical to make soap, not to unclog their drains. Then a smaller segment were using it for making bio-diesel fuels. A smaller segment for cooking. And an even smaller segment for making meth. Then an even smaller segment (me) using it as an electrolyte for an HHO cell.
The point is, the chemical has a lot of uses. And this is how you can easily make it at home just by cooking the nitrate to an oxide then converting to hydroxide.
-Bo
