How much benzo usage would lead to serious withdrawals?

[lotek96]

Hey fam,

Been a BL lurker for as long as I can remember. Time to write an actual post.

I've been using benzos for the past 14 years or so. Almost exclusively for sleep / insomnia, rarely recreationally or for anxiety. When I can't sleep, I'll pop 10mg of valium, or 1 / 2mg of Xanax. Sometimes a bit more, sometimes less. If I've been on a bender I'll go as high as ~40mg of Valium to put myself to sleep - not often. I have 100 10mg vals and 100 2mg xans and have gone through about ~50% of that over the course of a year.

There's no consistency to the dosing. Sometimes it'll be daily for weeks when I'm stressed. Sometimes I've gone months without taking them and, as far as I can tell, haven't experienced any withdrawals or comedowns. But I eat them a lot, and don't go anywhere without them. I've started taking aderrall and finding that I'm starting to use them to bring the edge off at the end of the day.

I try to be fairly conscientious of not taking them several days in a row. Or taking weeks off. It doesn't feel like a bad habit because I literally just eat them in bed and then go to sleep, but maybe I'm tricking myself. I've never built up a solid tolerance and it just feels like a regular thing.

Question is, reading through all the threads on here about the serious withdrawal effects of benzos, does it seem like I've been building up to a colossal withdrawal over the years? If my tolerance hasn't increased and I've been taking breaks and gone months at a time without taking them with no ill effects, does it seem like I'm not using habitually enough to create that kind of whiplash? Or am I being reckless?

Any thoughts appreciated.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

I can't come up with any benzo which would accumulate so that it would be still present months after cessation so you are good.
Very rarely it takes more than 10 days to feel withdrawals. More commonly 1-7 days depending on benzo and metabolism.
Even in theory those amounts are minor.
Your course looks good. Even if there is some invisible harm, I wouldn't care too much about it. If it seems to make you better off after that long breaks, you probably are anyway.

 

[negrogesic]

It is hard to say, but when it happens, which it will eventually, rebound anxiety/withdrawal will forever be connected to their use, so I would be exceptionally cautious. Diazepam, due to the long duration of its action, can sometimes obscure this phenomenon. But the more you take them, the more desensitized your GABA-A receptors become. If you're someone who was never prone to anxiety, this desensitization may be less noticeable. But eventually it will.

I abused benzos extensively in the past at very high doses, and have experienced two, full-blown dependencies/withdrawal syndromes punctuated by around 6 years (i was foolish enough to make the same mistake twice). I still resort to them on as rare of an occasion as possible, but now the rebound is instant and severe, despite quitting daily benzos years ago.

Just this past Saturday i had an event i was dreading and ended up taking benzos to reduce that sense of trepidation, but when trying to finish some important and time sensitive work on Monday, the rebound was so distracting that i had to take more to finish the work. The result was that, today (Tuesday), I was almost entirely knocked out of commission from the cumulative intensity of the rebound effects. This means my brain clearly never fully recovered from benzo use from years prior. If i used benzos daily for a week straight and stopped I'd be in a very dark place. This type of rebound from short term use never happened to me before experiencing benzo withdrawal.

As a crude description, as a sort defense strategy (homeostasis) there is an unfolding (or uncoupling) of certain proteins in the brain that occurs when exposed to benzodiazepines, and when these are unfolded for long enough, they don't fold back in the same way once the benzo is removed and as a result aren't as effective as they once were. Heavy, prolonged abuse is likely to make them permanently less effective (ie, desensitized to the effects of endogenous GABA).

So don't push your luck. I have a feeling that if only xanax was involved here, due to the shorter acting nature, you'd be a bit more well acquainted to the rebound effects of benzodiazepines .

 

[Señor Moreno]

Be careful with your use of benzos as you become older. Your experiences in the next 14 years can be very different than those you had in the previous 14 years.
I allways have been one of the lucky ones who could use or abuse benzos without that much of a problem, not anymore.
I don't know if this is just me or the reason behind it, but I notice something have changed over time.
Not only with benzos but also alcohol and pregabalin.

 

[Mr.Xperimental]

My recommendation would be to document your use cuz as we all know with benzos it makes days fly by

and keep in mind that eventually in about a year or 2 MAX you're going to start to notice the damage to your gaba recwptors pretty heavily

and by that point you're gonn be screwed gaba wise for a really long time if not forever depending on your self discipline

 

[paranoid android]

It's really hard to say how much will cause wd I only use 5mg's of clonazepam a day now with days off and i get no wd. That's equal to about 10mg's of Valium As long as you dont use everyday you should probably be good though really. Try to take as many breaks as possible.

 

[Señor Moreno]

I think 5 mgs of clonazepam is so much more than 10 mgs Valium

 

[Señor Moreno]

Or maybe you meant 0,5 mg.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Benzo's never got me hooked like a drug, I purely consider them medical.

 

[lotek96]

Thanks y’all. Anyone have a feel for how much would damage GABA receptors? What is the result of that?

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

It depends of your luck.

I read recently study where they observed deterioration in glia cells and axons following from just regular therapeutic daily dose of diazepam in some individuals, but not in other individuals. Couldnt find it anymore.

I'd agree on not trusting your luck if you can help it. Doing weeks in a row even once a year is actually just that already because you possibly might lower your threshold to WDs every time, who knows? I agree I hadn't thought about that properly.

 

[Kizaru]

I can't come up with any benzo which would accumulate so that it would be still present months after cessation so you are good.
Very rarely it takes more than 10 days to feel withdrawals. More commonly 1-7 days depending on benzo and metabolism.
Even in theory those amounts are minor.
Your course looks good. Even if there is some invisible harm, I wouldn't care too much about it. If it seems to make you better off after that long breaks, you probably are anyway.

After how long of daily benzo use like 1 mg Xanax would cause severe withdrawal upon ct .
Is it rlly bad after 2 weeks or 4 weeks or longer ?
Also are longer acting benzodiazepines like diazepam have less rebound and dependance then shorter acting one's ? I can't rlly ever get a solid answer , i understand it probally depends on every individual brain chemistry ?

 

[Señor Moreno]

There is not a solid answer, as you say it depends on individuals and also different circunstances can lead to different outcomes on the same individual.
But it is safe to asume that after several months (weeks sometimes) at 1 mg alprazolam a day you could expect some kind of anxiety rebound, especially if you have been taking them to fight anxiety. Nothing very serious if you haven't been dependent on gaba drugs, but still annoying. Just my guess.

Yes, long lasting benzos are way more forgiving, but not free lunch with them, either.
Once think to keep in mind with long acting ones is thay you have them in your system for a long time without noticing it. Not as in a delusion of sobriety, so commom with benzos when you are intoxicated, but like you are not intoxicated at all. And you aren't, but they are still with you, specially if you were using high doses.
So, you go a couple days without taking them and you decide it would be cool to go and drink with friends... bad news
As peaceful as diazepam is, it got me in front of tribunal for that very reason.

 

[Kizaru]

There is not a solid answer, as you say it depends on individuals and also different circunstances can lead to different outcomes on the same individual.
But it is safe to asume that after several months (weeks sometimes) at 1 mg alprazolam a day you could expect some kind of anxiety rebound, especially if you have been taking them to fight anxiety. Nothing very serious if you haven't been dependent on gaba drugs, but still annoying. Just my guess.

Yes, long lasting benzos are way more forgiving, but not free lunch with them, either.
Once think to keep in mind with long acting ones is thay you have them in your system for a long time without noticing it. Not as in a delusion of sobriety, so commom with benzos when you are intoxicated, but like you are not intoxicated at all. And you aren't, but they are still with you, specially if you were using high doses.
So, you go a couple days without taking them and you decide it would be cool to go and drink with friends... bad news
As peaceful as diazepam is, it got me in front of tribunal for that very reason.

Nice i see , this was a usefull explanation . I appreciate it !