Heroin How long should I wait after smoking heroin to take buprenorphine/do withdrawal aids cause any undesired effects during this process?

[Daddydopedick]

I have currently relapsed on heroin and I've been smoking it for about a week now, maybe two.

In actuality, within the past couple of months, I've jumped on and off heroin back to buprenorphine. But this time I'm going back on the buprenorphine for good. I say this with confidence as I've not really wanted to be clean since my recent relapse but I now feel that it is time as I was clean for about 18 months until recently.

Before, I waited exactly 24 hours until I took a dose of buprenorphine (8mg) and I started to feel better and the withdrawals went away.

You may be asking why I am asking this if I have already done this.

Well, this time I am prepared. I have loperamide, DXM and pregabalin at my disposal to use during the 24 hour waiting period.

What I'm wondering is would these drugs cause me to need to wait any longer than I have in the past? In the past, after 24 hours I've felt like absolute hell and figured it was time to take the buprenorphine. If I have these drugs at my disposal and by 24 hours I don't feel as sick due to using these aids, will I be okay taking the buprenorphine as I have in the past (after 24 hours)?

Or would the buprenorphine interact with these drugs in any way? Loperamide occupies the mu receptors as far as I know and DXM is an NMDA agonist.

Are these drugs themselves able to cause precipitated withdrawals if I take the buprenorphine, or is it only the H that I need to worry about/that occupies the receptors that can cause PW? Do I not need to worry about the aids I am using to help with the withdrawals between me taking H and then taking the buprenorphine.

I should add that it's just buprenorphine. It doesn't have any suboxone in it. I've read on other forums that you have to wait longer if you're taking subs. I'm not taking subs I'm just taking buprenorphine.

I've been okay waiting 24 hours in the past so would I be okay waiting 24 hours whilst also using loperamide, DXM and pregabalin?

What I'm basically asking is that would these drugs I'm using to aid my withdrawals have any undesired effects or cause me to have to wait longer? I may not feel as sick after 24 hours due to using them but should I be okay nonetheless?

Any info on this matter would be appreciated or if anyone has any experience with this, that would be of great help.

I should also add that I've been smoking heroin now for about a week or two. I'm not a long term user as I only recently came off buprenorphine. I've read that long term users generally have to wait much longer.

Thanks for your time.

Edit: I've read some forums stating that taking buprenorphine after taking loperamide can cause PWD, but I've seen contradicting evidence too. I was planning on taking around 20mg loperamide to help with withdrawals (way less than what people on these forums were taking), but taking it may cause me to have to wait longer (maybe, depending on whether it can cause PWD.) I'm thinking I'll just stick to taking pregabalin for the withdrawals and skip the loperamide. As for the DXM I couldn't find anything on that.

 

[axe battler]

I wouldn't bother with the loperamide or dxm for a 24hr gap really. Definitely pregabalin though.
I find it's the best withdrawal aid going in decent doses (200-300mg for me but YMMV and all that!) but it doesn't act on opiate receptors so won't cause PWD.
If the pregabalin allows you to wait more than the 24hrs then that's great, the longer you leave it the better!
If you absolutely must take the lope, just take 2-4mg to help with the gastric problems. I find pregabalin even helps this though!
Well done for deciding to quit! How much bupe will you be taking and via which ROA?
I would start with 2-4mg sublingually. You may not need the full 8mg. People forgethow strong it is!Good luck!

 

[3ch0]

I have been able to stop my subs, take H for a week, take my last hit of H around 8PM, wake up at 7AM and take 2mg suboxone and have little to no side effect. I made sure I felt a little uncomfortable in the morning but I was definitely not in full blown withdrawal.

2 weeks might be pushing it, but I’ve gone 2 weeks off subs while taking percs and still had almost no ill effects getting back on suboxone. I would suggest only taking 2mg or less that first dose, if possible, and then you can take another 2mg in a couple hours. I’ve read that can reduce the chances of PWD.

No experience with those other WD aids. Hope it goes well.

 

[Xorkoth]

I should add that it's just buprenorphine. It doesn't have any suboxone in it.

Just anted to point out, buprenorphine is the main compound in suboxone. But suboxone also contains a small amount of naloxone to discourage IV use. Naloxone is basically inactive except in in IV, where it is active. So the naloxone does nothing unless you IV it. So essentially, other than if you're IVing, suboxone IS buprenorphine. Suboxone is just the brand name.

 

[Senseimilla]

I know this comment is a late but for others that might be in the same boat.
Personally I wouldn't get back on the Suboxone or brup. If I had only used for a few weeks I would personally stock up on Valium, Ativan or Xanax if your country still prescribes it (unlike Australia) and lyrica (pregablin). Maybe 2mg of sub if shit hits the fan.. But personally brup or Suboxone is like methadone to withdraw from and just isn't worth taking imo for a 2 week slip. I would also get some naltrexone tablets so of the urge to use came up I could take one. And then not have the 4 weeks of Suboxone withdrawal.
Then again if you know that you end using again and falling in to that familiar trap.

Suboxone would be the way to go or the bruvidal injection or subucaide ( spelt wrong I think), which is just brup that gets injected in to your stomach or bum cheek And lasts for a week or a month depending on what dose you have (8, 16 or 32mg equivalent to subutex). And I have heard that because it slowly leaves your body withdrawal from it is easy. (Only from people on tic Tok) But idk about that statement as :
A: it's a opiate and you will get withdrawal no matter what in my experience.
B; I have had the injections for 6 months and I found myself using more than I would than when I was on Suboxone.
C: By then end of the month I found the opiates decreasing and would usually end up visiting the doctor a week or day or two early.

I ended up getting back on the Suboxone as my using was getting worse and found myself selling my DJ gear and going down that old junkie rabbit hole.


But as stated above, I have found if I've used for a few days and skipped my dose of Suboxone (16 mg). I can take it 18 - 24 hours after my last taste, but I usually wait until I just start to get that hanging out feeling and I'll be okay. I'm also on valium (15mg) so that helps.

Hope your plan worked out for you buddy.. An update of where your at today who be interesting if you don't mind me asking.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

It is okay. Look there's no need to declare how your opiate use will go because not to rattle anyone, but it is just how it is. Everyone slips up at some point or another from what I have seen from myself and those in my life who have had issues with the class of narcotics. You just have to always keep trying really. I myself have shown a similar pattern of wanting to be clean/getting on bupe at times/getting off and endulging in whatever. You might never use again, or it might happen again/whatever anyway..

Things like suboxone/subutex it usually takes 24 hours but then for many people even longer and others much shorter than that time-frame wise. I know if I've taken it way too soon because I start sweating and cannot stop sleeping the entire day until the next bupe dose. If you are sickly initially after the first induction, wait until the next day to take more. You will face no change in sickness and completely waste valuable bupe if you feel "sickly" still after the first strip/pill/whatever you have is taken. Equivalent to throwing a ton of bupe into the trash when you are still sickly after the initial bupe hits your system.

Bupe is very good for reducing cravings and it actually does impress me in that regard. Everyone misses the high of course of the real deal, but its a close in between from opiate use : sobriety. If only it were that easy.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Just anted to point out, buprenorphine is the main compound in suboxone. But suboxone also contains a small amount of naloxone to discourage IV use. Naloxone is basically inactive except in in IV, where it is active. So the naloxone does nothing unless you IV it. So essentially, other than if you're IVing, suboxone IS buprenorphine. Suboxone is just the brand name.

I think the naloxone in subs to prevent IV is more a pharma marketing and patenting gimmick than reality.

I've IVed suboxone dozens of times and plain old subtex (bupe only)....and while there is a slight difference just in speed of onset is does nothing to make you sick or really discourage it.

I remember a thread on here where everyone saying that IVing suboxone wasn't really a problem with the nalaxone.

For some reason all formulations of bupe seem seem to really fuck up and harden your viens.. it's noticeable even after one time shooting this stuff. Seems really nasty to shoot.

 

[Senseimilla]

This is true

I think the naloxone in subs to prevent IV is more a pharma marketing and patenting gimmick than reality.

I've IVed suboxone dozens of times and plain old subtex (bupe only)....and while there is a slight difference just in speed of onset is does nothing to make you sick or really discourage it.

I remember a thread on here where everyone saying that IVing suboxone wasn't really a problem with the nalaxone.

For some reason all formulations of bupe seem seem to really fuck up and harden your viens.. it's noticeable even after one time shooting this stuff. Seems really nasty to shoot.

I had naltrexone or naloxone implants in my stomach back in 2002 -2004 ish, and if you took subutex it was the only way you would / could get a opiate high. ( Suboxone wasn't available at that stage) .

The implant were invented I believe by the Doctor that gave them to me Dr George O'Neil in Australia Perth. They would call it a rapid detox and you would feel okay after 2 days instead of 3 or 4, as the naltrexone knocked all the opiates off the brain.

You had to sign a waiver as the FDA hadn't approved the implants at that stage. The implants would work for approximately 9months. The down side to them was a lot of people over dosed when the implants had worn off and there tolerance was low.
Also the Doctor started to claim that naltrexone / naloxone worked for all addiction including gambling meth and alcohol. But I can tell you from my experience that I used subutex and alcohol ( but rarely). I tried H but it would do a thing even at extremely heavy doses.
Would I get a implant again, no I would not I found that I didn't feel 100% even with months of clean time behind me. But I know it did help lots of people if they where being 100% honest I don't know. But they seemed to be in a much better place than what they were.

Personally if I end up getting off the subutex again I will ask for naloxone tables and just take them if my mind starts wanting to get high. I will get there eventually, slot of people say being on Suboxone is counted as being clean.

I sort of agree as you don't use when taking it correctly and your also not high when taking it correctly..And most people tend to sort there life's out and begin to study or work again.

But I still want to one day be completely 100% opiate free..So I can travel and not have to worry about visiting.my chemist. As you can only get 2 takeaway doses after being clean on Suboxone after 3.months.
And when going overseas you have to find a chemist etc etc...
Anyhow..
End of rant.

Have a blinding day everyone..
And a safe a good Xmas and New year's

 

[LucidSDreamr]

This is true

I had naltrexone or naloxone implants in my stomach back in 2002 -2004 ish, and if you took subutex it was the only way you would / could get a opiate high. ( Suboxone wasn't available at that stage) .

The implant were invented I believe by the Doctor that gave them to me Dr George O'Neil in Australia Perth. They would call it a rapid detox and you would feel okay after 2 days instead of 3 or 4, as the naltrexone knocked all the opiates off the brain.

You had to sign a waiver as the FDA hadn't approved the implants at that stage. The implants would work for approximately 9months. The down side to them was a lot of people over dosed when the implants had worn off and there tolerance was low.
Also the Doctor started to claim that naltrexone / naloxone worked for all addiction including gambling meth and alcohol. But I can tell you from my experience that I used subutex and alcohol ( but rarely). I tried H but it would do a thing even at extremely heavy doses.
Would I get a implant again, no I would not I found that I didn't feel 100% even with months of clean time behind me. But I know it did help lots of people if they where being 100% honest I don't know. But they seemed to be in a much better place than what they were.

Personally if I end up getting off the subutex again I will ask for naloxone tables and just take them if my mind starts wanting to get high. I will get there eventually, slot of people say being on Suboxone is counted as being clean.

I sort of agree as you don't use when taking it correctly and your also not high when taking it correctly..And most people tend to sort there life's out and begin to study or work again.

But I still want to one day be completely 100% opiate free..So I can travel and not have to worry about visiting.my chemist. As you can only get 2 takeaway doses after being clean on Suboxone after 3.months.
And when going overseas you have to find a chemist etc etc...
Anyhow..
End of rant.

Have a blinding day everyone..
And a safe a good Xmas and New year's

I relate to the old ball and chain. I it sounds like you're Inna different country but in the US addiction doctors give you a one month supply of suboxone so you have freedom as much as a pain patient on opioids for non addictivion pain issues.

So they don't give you a 1 month supply of bupe at a time?

Even 1 month supply you have to just worry about refill time and in the pain world they will cut you off for no reason with zero warning If the government harassed the doctor.

I think the only reason ppl get their life sorted out on bupe is because it doesn't cost 100 to 200 $ per day is legal and doesnt require this big chase and dedication that doing illegal opioids does. If you legalized heroin administration the way methadone is given out i think heroin addicts would function as well as a methadone or bupe addict...assuming they aren't getting to the point where the nod hard and can't even stay awake.

Whenever I've been on bupe I'll abuse it...but they prescribed me like 5x .ore than I needed so it didn't create too many problems in life. Now I'm on methadone (pain script so I have a large supply) and I can't get off on it like I did with bupe...i dont even bother abusing it. Thus I consider bupe more recreational.

I've come to hate traveling although I used to have a lot of dreams of doing so and have already been to some cool places. So i don't really care too much I'm missing out on life. I might not do it even if I was totally clean

 

[Senseimilla]

I relate to the old ball and chain. I it sounds like you're Inna different country but in the US addiction doctors give you a one month supply of suboxone so you have freedom as much as a pain patient on opioids for non addictivion pain issues.

So they don't give you a 1 month supply of bupe at a time?

Even 1 month supply you have to just worry about refill time and in the pain world they will cut you off for no reason with zero warning If the government harassed the doctor.

I think the only reason ppl get their life sorted out on bupe is because it doesn't cost 100 to 200 $ per day is legal and doesnt require this big chase and dedication that doing illegal opioids does. If you legalized heroin administration the way methadone is given out i think heroin addicts would function as well as a methadone or bupe addict...assuming they aren't getting to the point where the nod hard and can't even stay awake.

Whenever I've been on bupe I'll abuse it...but they prescribed me like 5x .ore than I needed so it didn't create too many problems in life. Now I'm on methadone (pain script so I have a large supply) and I can't get off on it like I did with bupe...i dont even bother abusing it. Thus I consider bupe more recreational.

I've come to hate traveling although I used to have a lot of dreams of doing so and have already been to some cool places. So i don't really care too much I'm missing out on life. I might not do it even if I was totally clean

I would have to agree with you there if heroin was made legal. It's been proven in Sweden and Spain I believe. The crime rate dropped and prostituting level dropped massively as well as blood viruses and over doses.
People ended up finding work and slowly dropping the level or legal heroin they used. With that being there choice.

Have you heard of Bruvidal or sublucaide which is a long lasting brup injections in doses of 8, 16 and 32mg equal to Suboxone that are ment to last up to a month.
I tried this for 6 months but for my usage of h went up towards the end of the month, It did give me.many of my freedom's back in many ways But due to me finding myself craving after two weeks and using not to mention that I couldn't travel due to COVID I went back to Suboxone.
But I think I will go back on the Bruvidal once travel opens up again... I'm also in a much different head space to what I was then and the transition over isn't bad at all.
That's good that you get a month of methadone supply is it syrup or tablets?
2.days is the most here and if you miss more than 3 days or some times 2 you have to wait 2 weeks to get back on the program.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

I would have to agree with you there if heroin was made legal. It's been proven in Sweden and Spain I believe. The crime rate dropped and prostituting level dropped massively as well as blood viruses and over doses.
People ended up finding work and slowly dropping the level or legal heroin they used. With that being there choice.

Have you heard of Bruvidal or sublucaide which is a long lasting brup injections in doses of 8, 16 and 32mg equal to Suboxone that are ment to last up to a month.
I tried this for 6 months but for my usage of h went up towards the end of the month, It did give me.many of my freedom's back in many ways But due to me finding myself craving after two weeks and using not to mention that I couldn't travel due to COVID I went back to Suboxone.
But I think I will go back on the Bruvidal once travel opens up again... I'm also in a much different head space to what I was then and the transition over isn't bad at all.
That's good that you get a month of methadone supply is it syrup or tablets?
2.days is the most here and if you miss more than 3 days or some times 2 you have to wait 2 weeks to get back on the program.

....here the suboxone makers basically made it the new oxy in the sense that Massive doses given out like nothing for 1 month. It's sold everywhere because ppl get so much extra. It's also much more powerful and recreational than weaker opioids yet it's a lower schedule so it's easier for doctors to shell out

One of the advantages of a for profit healthcare system is the corruption. Now ketamine is starting to be this new fad in medicine and they are going to create a generation of ketamine users.

In the US methadone for pain is always prescribed in pill form not liquid. I think the liquid is given to addicts because otherwise they could try to tounge or vomit the pill up and sell or save for later.

My cousin kept getting kicked out of her clinic for failing tests and her BF would basically drunk liter or two of water right before taking his liquid methadone than vomit half the volume up immediately after leaving the clinic for her to drink. Crazy. Now that's love.

 

[klh]

Ok so I was clean off H and on subs for 6 years. Tapered off sub about 5 months ago and went right back to H. Fast forward 5 months and $10,000 I have 2.5 bags and that's it. I have a few valium a handful of gabapentin and 12 Subutex and 50 Suboxone. How long after my last dose of H do I have to wait before I take a Subutex. I'm scared of withdrawal. I swore I'd never start heroin again cuz I never wanted to be sick. I'm 57 years old. Rehab or detox is not an option. I just need to know how to use and take the gabs valium and Subutex so I don't get sick. I can't even imagine what withdrawal feels like again. Any help is appreciated I just don't want PWD

 

[Angus12]

I know this thread is a little old and I am sure OP and others have started the subs, but wanted to add something for the next guy. If the H you are using has any Fentanyl in it, then there is a possibility of going into PWD after waiting 24hr. If you are in the US (don’t think you are) than the likelihood of fentanyl or fentanyl analogs being in the H is really high. I’ve read plenty of horror stories about people going into PWD waiting as long as 72-96hr of last use. Fentanyl stores in your fat and will stay u your system for a long time. If that be the case and you take anything above say 1mg of suboxone/subutex/ bupe (doesn’t matter) will rip the fentanyl off your receptors in 1-2 minutes and it will be hell on earth and wish for the end. So please be careful and start very very low dose. I’m talking .025mg of sub. If you don’t feel any worse, take another .025 a few hours later. Keep doing that for a day and your probably in the clear. If you take .025mg and you feel worse, do not take anymore subs and wait. Hope this helps.

 

[Angus12]

Ok so I was clean off H and on subs for 6 years. Tapered off sub about 5 months ago and went right back to H. Fast forward 5 months and $10,000 I have 2.5 bags and that's it. I have a few valium a handful of gabapentin and 12 Subutex and 50 Suboxone. How long after my last dose of H do I have to wait before I take a Subutex. I'm scared of withdrawal. I swore I'd never start heroin again cuz I never wanted to be sick. I'm 57 years old. Rehab or detox is not an option. I just need to know how to use and take the gabs valium and Subutex so I don't get sick. I can't even imagine what withdrawal feels like again. Any help is appreciated I just don't want PWD

Hope the transition went well for you. Please read my post. If you are in the US, please be careful transitioning to subs if you haven’t already. The H on the street isn’t like the H we used to have. 9/10 it has fentanyl in it. You can be thrown into PWD very easily with subs/suboxone. Update when you can.

 

[axe battler]

That sounds scary! How come people say fentanyl is really short acting, and if you're dependant on it you need to take it very often then?
Is it because it's so strong that when you first take it it destroys you, then the lingering fent isn't enough to stave off fentanyl withdrawal, but still there enough to cause PWD if you take bupe?
That's the only theory I can think of right now.

 

[Subsrgood]

I took my last hit on a Friday night and woke up Saturday morning so a good 12-14 hours and took a 8mg sub 3 times a day and was back to work Monday with no side efforts. I know everyone is different but to have no detox and not miss a day of work was gold in my eyes. Hopes this helps.

 

[Littana]

That sounds scary! How come people say fentanyl is really short acting, and if you're dependant on it you need to take it very often then?
Is it because it's so strong that when you first take it it destroys you, then the lingering fent isn't enough to stave off fentanyl withdrawal, but still there enough to cause PWD if you take bupe?
That's the only theory I can think of right now.

that and propably depends lot what fentalogues are in the "dope"

 

[klh]

Hope the transition went well for you. Please read my post. If you are in the US, please be careful transitioning to subs if you haven’t already. The H on the street isn’t like the H we used to have. 9/10 it has fentanyl in it. You can be thrown into PWD very easily with subs/suboxone. Update when you can.

Thank you for the chat. Man that was one of the worse experiences of my life. I knew that shit was fetty cuz everyone I snagged from it all looked and tasted the same. The bags or Gs were fat AF and no matter how much I did I couldn't get any higher but being back in tbe scene my options weren't that great. Its funny how I thought I'm sick where looking back I was nowhere near sick. I started out tearing pieces off a sub and trying to wait. Living Alone with virtually no friends cuz i recently moved here time is my worse enemy. Patience? I've got none! I was so freaking sick. I finally thought putting myself into pwd would get me a clean slate at some point. Holy sh*t. That's what a thought did for me.Sleep never comes easy when detoxing. Long story short over a month of horrifying withdrawal I still had zero ambition. Didn't want to eat shower get dressed nothing. Ran out of my antidepressant and valium and gabs during that time too. So 90 day later still having no desire to even run to the store I took a trip and got 4 buns yesterday. Wanted a brick it was all dude had. I live on a monthly income so I have to figure shit out that way. Bags small AF IMA quit going to him its getting worse. Dude is narcissistic and thrives on it.Either I always had H or didn't gave H. I'm starting out fresh again. Is it possible to do a bag or two cuz they are teeny tiny for 2 or 3 days skip a day and then high for 2days? trying to make shit last. I have 6 sub's left but that shit is gonna be for when and if wds are extremely bad. Anyone get high for a few days in a row then not for a day or two..etc etc? Here I go again..smh