Misc How long do you need to wait between Nitrous Oxide use and how much does the amount used in session make a difference for recovery time +other factors

[Drag2019]

I know it takes a roughly 2-4 weeks to recover the bodies ability to make use of it's Vitamin B12 stores again. If I use 1 and only 1 nitrous oxide charger for 1 day will be more likely to recover after 2 weeks instead of 4 for example compared to using more than just 1 single charger for 1 day or does using huge and copious amounts of nitrous oxide in a 24 hour period not make a difference compared to 1 single nitrous oxide charger(for a whip cream dispenser). I wasn't sure if I should post this in OD or someone else. I decided to post here since I am looking for anecdotes from people too.

 

[meeer]

You wont get nitrous oxide induced B12 Vitamin Deficiency from 1 charger, however there is probably not going to be an exact number, although in general its never considered safe to take substances just safer than not. As for nitrous a single charger is going to be essentially harmless unless you should have a direct allergy or something of the sort to it directly, cant say iv ever heard of that for nitrous but I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[negrogesic]

I can elaborate at this at great length from deep personal experience. I've even built a device that joins a nitrous oxide tank to an oxygen concentrator to provide a constant flow of nitrous oxide while evading hypoxia. Years ago, when I cared less, I breathed pure nitrous oxide for hours.

In any event, sensitivity to the B12 depleting effects seem to vary by person, up to a point, at which point everyone face the danger of B12 depletion, in some cases leading to permanent damage (this is fairly rare and likely due to genetic predisposition, for instance, a guy who abuses it moderately hard in a fairly short period of time yet develops severe and irreversible symptoms likely had a related disorder, like multiple sclerosis, waiting for him in the future). I am guess I'm not too susceptible because years ago I used on average 50 chargers a day, everyday, for over a year, with no apparent symptoms associated with B12 depletion. However had a person more susceptible than I was done the same thing, the might be in a wheelchair for the rest of their life.

Anyway, I have more on this subject but don't have the time right now ping me (@negrogesic) if I forget to make my way back

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Concerning B-12. The two bioactive forms are methylcobalamin in cytosol and adenosylcobalamin in mitochondria
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12 ) You don't want CyanoCobolamine if my info is correct. No clue of the other two, maybe which is best. Methylcobalamine is also used in the treatment of peripheral neuropathy, diabetic neuropathy, and as a preliminary treatment for amyotrophic lateral sclerosis.[4] But this is with a big habit if you get defiency's. But it involves nerves AFAIK, someone more knowledgeable might know.

Might you consider using it a lot there is a DIY set up on the site or else med grade/ with oxygen added seem's necessary.
And besides being at least on your at least your ass preferably a couch, in case you go out and fall. Happened to me.

Hypoxia is just as important. Take breath's while and inbetween like Negrogesic wrote. As ime, pre internet, N20 breathing feels just like air. But once you saw someone get blue in the face you realize it aint. Literally had to make that person stop manually. So 1-st times a sitter is not such a bad idea.

Someone over here has a super DIY harmreduction set up described in steps with pic's.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

I know it takes a roughly 2-4 weeks to recover the bodies ability to make use of it's Vitamin B12 stores again. If I use 1 and only 1 nitrous oxide charger for 1 day will be more likely to recover after 2 weeks instead of 4 for example compared to using more than just 1 single charger for 1 day or does using huge and copious amounts of nitrous oxide in a 24 hour period not make a difference compared to 1 single nitrous oxide charger(for a whip cream dispenser). I wasn't sure if I should post this in OD or someone else. I decided to post here since I am looking for anecdotes from people too.

Not really about to answer as I think your usage is very wise, wiser then a lot of others. The fact that you came here for advice being an example.

The recovery part though bothers me as I don't remember having any after effect's. Or needing recovery time. And my use was not that much larger then your's, but larger. Not like how it is today where its clearly overused. And getting lots of bad media attention.

Btw as veggie and allergic to Milk Protein. I was totally dependant on added Vit-B12, B-complex supplements that contain CyanoCobolamine and the scarce natural sources.
There are some but they are rare. So my body stores must been mostly dependent on my gut bacteria to produce it for me and my emergency supply (you have one right?). The supplements I would def be more critical about today. With their 4000 x recommended values for some b-vitamin's. The use of inferieur Vitamins a.o. Cyano but also Folic Acid instead of Folate, synthetic dl-tocepherol which allready is a problem but they fail to add the other tocepherol's which work synergetically. Sorry I could ramble on and on, but you get the picture (I hope).

Luckily a diet like mine is for gut bacteria, what is like a snackbar for some human's.

 

[Drag2019]

Thanks for the answers if I understand what your all trying to tell me is that it obviously depeneds on the individual but anyone who only uses any amount once every 2-4 weeks should be fine? I guess I'm guessing it probably doesn't make a difference if a person were to use 1 over a 24 hour period or inhale it non stop with oxygen mixed in for 24 hours but I do think that if a person were to use it once and than decide moderation isn't important use it a 2nd day that might cause issues idk....


What little info I have found suggestions for surgery at least they basically preload with vitamin B12 but I've also read using vitamin 12 in doses of more than 55mcg daily or more increases the risk of lung cancer by a lot (especially combined with vitamin B6) and it's not easy finding vitamin B12 supplements that are dosed less than 55mcg I've only found 1 and it was a 100mcg tablet that I'd have to break in half but it's of cynocobalamine type of B12 which someone just posted may or may not be useful for this situation?


Oh and what is all the talk about this D.I.Y. stuff I thought potentially made things more dangerous if your not careful?

 

[gordonliddy]

every 2-4 weeks should be fine?

Should be fine. IMHO it impairs driving ability, but if you don't try to drive after taking nitrous I think you'll be OK. Party on Bro!

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Someone here made and a TEK (also slang) but what it actually means or came from? Its like the guide you get with your IKEA furniture. But then on how you can DIY (Do It Yourself) make a harm reducing N2O device, as there seems some kinda oily stuff in their besides the N2O, might even contain metal particals from cracking it open.

And in NL is also an drastic increase in car accident's where N2O is involved. Like you can drive on a Disso, retards.

 

[SlySurferGuy]

In my experience you need to be doing a lot of nitrous per day for many days before it really catches up with you. I've seen only one person in my party crew overdo it day in and day out for about a month straight before having some sort of psychotic decompensation involving panic and confusion along with some physical issues.

I usually go through 3-5 615g mini tanks in a night of raving. Sometimes we after-party and swing by the shop for more. That's like an average of 5 of these containers in 24 hours. Sometimes my will is weak and I'll taper myself down with a tank per day for another 1-3 days before I start to feel like the nitrous isn't really working for me anymore. I imagine that's my body not having the vitamin b available or possibly tolerance. I always am having daily emergen-c vitamin supplements along with multivitamins (also red bull at the rave) for days during and after use. Never really had any noticeable effects afterwards. As others have said, I would recommend waiting at least a month between sessions of this nature.

 

[Drag2019]

Should be fine. IMHO it impairs driving ability, but if you don't try to drive after taking nitrous I think you'll be OK. Party on Bro!

Wait I mean the effects wear off super quick right so you'd have to be literally holding it in your lungs as you drive or some right or am I wrong lol?

 

[gordonliddy]

Wait I mean the effects wear off super quick right so you'd have to be literally holding it in your lungs as you drive or some right or am I wrong lol?

Yes, and and what I mean is that nitrous f* you all up brah, especially your equilibrium. Expect to be kind of out of it until you get a good night's sleep. Not a good drug for daily use. Maybe a good Friday night drug?

If I plan to do nitrous, I also plan to not need to drive anywhere for a while. There's just something nice about having a freezer full of a food and a bunch of friends on their way over. Knowing you won't have to go anywhere for a couple of days.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Wait I mean the effects wear off super quick right so you'd have to be literally holding it in your lungs as you drive or some right or am I wrong lol?

Got that right. They use while driving. Remember these inresponseable people are probably also under the influence of other substance's. N2O as stand alone drug makes no sense.

Alcohol, Coke, Speed, Ketamine, MDMA and GHB are common combo's all totally unfitted for driving. And some synergize very well making the N2O seemingly work even stronger.

 

[negrogesic]

Alcohol, Coke, Speed, Ketamine, MDMA and GHB are common combo's all totally unfitted for driving. And some synergize very well making the N2O seemingly work even stronger.

Speed and cocaine, at lower/reasonable doses don't present much of a hazard. In fact Adderall and speed are virtually the same drug, and there is a newer pharmaceutical preparation (Evekeo) that outright is speed (aka racemic amphetamine). Of course, the doses involved are quite different.

Cocaine probably is the bigger driving hazard of the two because of its short-acting nature, which devolves into a sort of scattered anxiety once it wears off.

 

[Drag2019]

Concerning B-12. The two bioactive forms are methylcobalamin in cytosol and adenosylcobalamin in mitochondria
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12 ) You don't want CyanoCobolamine if my info is correct. No clue of the other two, maybe which is best. Methylcobalamine is also used in the treatment of peripheral neuropathy, diabetic neuropathy, and as a preliminary treatment for amyotrophic lateral sclerosis.[4] But this is with a big habit if you get defiency's. But it involves nerves AFAIK, someone more knowledgeable might know.

Might you consider using it a lot there is a DIY set up on the site or else med grade/ with oxygen added seem's necessary.
And besides being at least on your at least your ass preferably a couch, in case you go out and fall. Happened to me.

Hypoxia is just as important. Take breath's while and inbetween like Negrogesic wrote. As ime, pre internet, N20 breathing feels just like air. But once you saw someone get blue in the face you realize it aint. Literally had to make that person stop manually. So 1-st times a sitter is not such a bad idea.

Someone over here has a super DIY harmreduction set up described in steps with pic's.

Can anyone here confirm if it matters if I take 50mcg daily of methly or cyano (methylcobalamine/cyanocobolamine Vitamin B12 or if I need to specifically and only take methyl vitamin B12 from what I read it's only specific people that cannot metabolize the other version cyanocobalamine of vitamin B12 and require methylcobalamine as they are undermethylators but if your an overmethylator for example you can you use the cyanocobalamine type of B12.


Does anyone know the answer to this question?

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Copy/ paste (from a commercia site)​

"SUMMARY
Both methylcobalamin and cyanocobalamin can treat vitamin B12 deficiency. Animal and human studies have found that methylcobalamin could reduce symptoms of diabetic neuropathy and may have neuroprotective effects as well.

If you think you may have a vitamin B12 deficiency, talk to your doctor to determine the best course of treatment.​

However, if you’re just looking to fill in the nutritional gaps in your diet, a vitamin B12 supplement may help.

Cyanocobalamin is a synthetic form of vitamin B12 that can be converted to the natural forms methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin.

The body may absorb cyanocobalamin better, while methylcobalamin has a higher retention rate.

Both can prevent B12 deficiency, but methylcobalamin should be combined with adenosylcobalamin for best results.

Regardless of which form of vitamin B12 you choose, be sure to combine it with a healthy, well-balanced diet to meet your nutritional needs and optimize your health."

 

[negrogesic]

Can anyone here confirm if it matters if I take 50mcg daily of methly or cyano (methylcobalamine/cyanocobolamine Vitamin B12 or if I need to specifically and only take methyl vitamin B12 from what I read it's only specific people that cannot metabolize the other version cyanocobalamine of vitamin B12 and require methylcobalamine as they are undermethylators but if your an overmethylator for example you can you use the cyanocobalamine type of B12.


Does anyone know the answer to this question?

Whats more important is how it's administered. B12 is rather poorly absorbed orally. They actually sell injectable veterinary grade B12 on Amazon, I've used it, it works.

The whole undermethylator/overmethylator bit is overplayed I believe. There is basis but it's exaggerated, or perhaps more accurately, misunderstood (or half-understood) by the ones that perpetuate it.

But the bigger picture is that if you're using NOS daily or very regularly, B12 supplementation will only help so much. NOS inactivates vitamin B12 by oxidizing the cobalt ion at its core, transforming it from a biologically active state to an inactive form. The inactivation is short-term but irreversible in nature, meaning that supplementing with additional B12 cannot counteract the effects of N2O as long as exposure continues.

That said I abused it daily for over a year. But I was young. Other might not be so lucky. The effects might not be immediate. Perhaps if I were genetically susceptible to something like multiple sclerosis, I might have developed it years later, or it could have precipitated something that might or might not have happened. That said I notice a pretty immediate paresthesia that lingers after NOS use that I don't remember occuring before, so who knows what damage I did. It definitely wasn't good for me, and oral B12 (or injectable) wouldn't have done me much good

 

[Drag2019]

Thanks for the replies both of you. I take a B-Complex Supplement daily but I take a super small dose of it daily and I'd like to to add a small daily dose of vitamin B12 just to ensure I'm getting enough regardless of my N2O use.

So if I'm understanding both of your replies correctly than I should be fine using the cyanocobalamine form of vitamin B12 supplements in fact it might actually be more beneficial assuming I'm not an undermethylator? Which speaking of that do you think it's worth getting a test to find out if your a over or undermethylator?

Currently I preload with methylcobalamine to be on the safe side and I heard someone mention that it might be beneficial to take a Methionine Supplement but from what I understand it's in a ton of food and I don't understand how exactly it would be beneficial though perhaps someone here and reading my post right now might know that lol?

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Whats more important is how it's administered. B12 is rather poorly absorbed orally. They actually sell injectable veterinary grade B12 on Amazon, I've used it, it works.

The whole undermethylator/overmethylator bit is overplayed I believe. There is basis but it's exaggerated, or perhaps more accurately, misunderstood (or half-understood) by the ones that perpetuate it.

But the bigger picture is that if you're using NOS daily or very regularly, B12 supplementation will only help so much. NOS inactivates vitamin B12 by oxidizing the cobalt ion at its core, transforming it from a biologically active state to an inactive form. The inactivation is short-term but irreversible in nature, meaning that supplementing with additional B12 cannot counteract the effects of N2O as long as exposure continues.

That said I abused it daily for over a year. But I was young. Other might not be so lucky. The effects might not be immediate. Perhaps if I were genetically susceptible to something like multiple sclerosis, I might have developed it years later, or it could have precipitated something that might or might not have happened. That said I notice a pretty immediate paresthesia that lingers after NOS use that I don't remember occuring before, so who knows what damage I did. It definitely wasn't good for me, and oral B12 (or injectable) wouldn't have done me much good

The 3 natural form's seem to have an better bioavaiability then CyanoCobalamine.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5312744/

 

[Drag2019]

The 3 natural form's seem to have an better bioavaiability then CyanoCobalamine.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5312744/

Ya from what I understand it depends on whether a person an over or undermethylator as to whether they need to use methylcobalamine or hydroxycobalamine instead of cyanocobalamine which some people actually argue might be more beneficial since it provides 2 forms of vitamin B12 but that's assuming your an individual that's capable of effectively absorbing it.


If my information in this post is wrong please someone let me know and inform me as what the correct info is.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Ya from what I understand it depends on whether a person an over or undermethylator as to whether they need to use methylcobalamine or hydroxycobalamine instead of cyanocobalamine which some people actually argue might be more beneficial since it provides 2 forms of vitamin B12 but that's assuming your an individual that's capable of effectively absorbing it.


If my information in this post is wrong please someone let me know and inform me as what the correct info is.

Its right, at least according to the research I read on NCBI. Cyano will be processed in the two forms the body uses Methyl and Adenosyl, but does not occur in nature. Neither are Adenosyl and Hydroxy afaik but which is best or which combo.

The HydroxyCobalamine is new to me and under-methylator to. Is it natural occuring like the Methyl or formed within our body or a lab.
And do they all share the same function, are they inter ex-change able (inc. the Cyano form)?