How harmful Is Dihydrocodeine?

[pally pete]

I usually take anywhere between 240 - 400mg Oxycontin (OC) broken down for instant release to get what i want from the Opiate.

I no longer have any Oxycontin just Dihydrocodeine 60mg tabs (DHC 60's) I try to roughly work out what i will need to get me where i want to be using the equivilancy chart, although 100mg DHC = 20mg Oxy, so i usually go for between 15 - 20 x 60mg DHC tabs crushed up to defeat the time release, which works out at around 900 - 1200mg DHC which = 180 - 240mg Oxy.

I realise the high doses of Oxy i take on it's own are not particularly good for my body and organs etc...

But i would really like to know if taking all that Dihydrocodeine is any worse for me health wise? Or just the same? Or not so bad?

The reason i wonder is because the amount of tabs i need to crush up to get the desired amount is a lot, but then i could get 120mg DHC tabs and then only have to use half the amount of tabs.... but i guess it's the the toxicity of the Dihydrocodeine that im most concerned about.

Any help much appreciated, thanks.

 

[my84firebird355]

your putting a pounding on your liver dude

 

[laCster]

if you swallow your DHC, you really arent doing that much harm to your body...

 

[pally pete]

your putting a pounding on your liver dude

How badly? If i was to keep using this amount of DHC how long before i in serious trouble?

I dont know why but i always assumed pure Opiates is not too bad on the Liver/Kidneys etc

if you swallow your DHC, you really arent doing that much harm to your body...

I always crush the DHC into powder to defeat the time release and then take orally (swallow down with a drink)

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I'm assuming you are talking about pills that contain only dihydrocodeine and no APAP etc.

Some types of opioids are harder on the liver/kidneys/spleen than others.

Going by the LD50s (median lethal dose) in animals (which can not be used to assume safe human doses but can be used to estimate a comparison of relative toxicity between 2 substances):
LD50 of oral oxycodone is: 920 mg/kg (rat) (source)
LD50 of oral dihydrocodone is: 240mg/kg (rat) (source)

So that would lead me to think dihydrocodeine is a lot more toxic than oxycodone (especially since oxy is like 5-15 times stronger depending on the source).

I am not sure what a safe dose of dihydrocodeine is, especially for chronic use. It is often the toxicity of other ingredients that are often found in combination with dihydrocodeine (APAP, aspirin, etc) and/or the histamine-related side effects that limit the dose. Whether or not it has a ceiling dose is unclear. Some sources say dihydrocodeine is possibly unlike codeine in that dhc may lack a theoretical ceiling dose, codeine on the other hand after a certain dose (the exact amount seems to depend on the person) taking a higher dose will not produce more effects. However, a different source, states that dihydrocodeine does have a ceiling and the maximum recommended dose is 240mg daily since higher doses do not provide any further analgesic effect.

Different sources list the maximum daily dose for dihydrocodeine as being anywhere from 250-750 mg, but I have no idea whether they are basing it off the toxicity to the organs, or the potential for respiratory depression in people with no-low opioid tolerance, or the side effects, or the possibility of a ceiling dose. I have certainly heard of people taking a lot more than 240mg and saying it still gave them increased effects. Don't know how safe it is though.

 

[pally pete]

Thanks for all the replies.

It's been nearly 84 hours since i last touched any Opiates and most of my adverse symptoms from my last dose, water retention in my legs/ankles/feet and slightly yellowish skin, all of which i've had before and have gone away and i've been fine.

I plan on not using Opiates anymore (easier said than done!) im currently starting to feel the withdrawals which i expect to last at least another few days.

I've dosed some Valium today to try to help with the increased Anxiety/disturbed sleep/irratability etc.. Yet it hardly touches me and doesnt do nothing for the lack of appetite, sweats, insomnia, muscle aches and cramps, headaches, irratability, paranoia, depression etc

The LD50 index confuses me somewhat... I weigh around 80kg so how does that equate into the lethal/harmful dose for DHC for me?

Btw the Dihydrocodeine i use contains no other ingredients other than 60mg Dihydrocodeine per tab.

 

[Pagey]

Thanks for all the replies.

It's been nearly 84 hours since i last touched any Opiates and most of my adverse symptoms from my last dose, water retention in my legs/ankles/feet and slightly yellowish skin, all of which i've had before and have gone away and i've been fine.

isn't that a sign of organ failure?!

 

[pally pete]

isn't that a sign of organ failure?!

First time this happened i went to the hospital and got a full M.O.T including all organ function tests and everything came back fine.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

The LD50 index confuses me somewhat... I weigh around 80kg so how does that equate into the lethal/harmful dose for DHC for me?

It can't tell you what a lethal/harmful dose for you would be. The LD50 is the dose (in mg per kg of body weight) required to kill 50% of the members of a tested population (within a specified amount of time - it's just measuring acute toxicity, not long-term/chronic exposure). As I said, LD50s in animals can not be used to assume safe human doses - what is relatively safe for rats may very well kill a human. And they can't tell you your risk of adverse health effects over time. I am just using them to roughly estimate a comparison of relative toxicity between the 2 substances. A low LD50 in an animal is generally a cause of concern for humans. Dihydrocodeine is a lot less potent an opioid than oxycodone, yet it's LD50 is much lower. That means it's safe to assume dihydrocodeine is significantly more toxic than oxycodone.

As I said, listed maximum doses for dihydrocodeine range from 240mg/day to 750mg/day.

my adverse symptoms from my last dose, water retention in my legs/ankles/feet and slightly yellowish skin

First time this happened i went to the hospital and got a full M.O.T including all organ function tests and everything came back fine.

Just because you had these symptoms before and were ok doesn't mean that you shouldn't be worried and that you're guaranteed to be fine this time!

 

[Graham887]

I know I'm late to this one but I have been taking 120 DHC and 30 mg diffs for nearly 15 years at a high dose I take nearly 10 ppls scripts that I but every week about 2000 mg a day mibbi have 1 day off a week it is bad for kidneys and liver I have a friend that takes the oqivelant in oxis and a friend who takes about same in smak I look the healthier but inside I ame alot more fuked up liver stomach and kidney problems (sorry for spelling and all the rest I ame dyslexic using autocorrect with Scottish slang)

 

[Keif' Richards]

If you ask me, one Opioid is typically not more harmful than another in a really significant way. There are certain outliers in the world of Opioids that are known for their potentially harmful effects. Tramadol (Ultram) is known to provoke seizures in dosages higher than 300mg per sitting, Propoxyphene (Darvon) was recalled due to negative cardiovascular effects.

However, this sort of thing isn't really the norm. In the world of Opioids, the rule of thumb is that most can be substituted for one another. With this in mind, dosage and potency are the PRIMARY differences from one Opioid to another. Aside from this, one could say that the differences are pretty subtle. Perhaps Morphine makes you feel a little warmer or Fentanyl doesn't make you feel as "happy"... that sort of thing.

In the heyday of prescription Opioid abuse here in Western Civilization, especially North America, it would be fairly common to use one of several different Opioid pharmaceuticals on a revolving basis based purely on availability. "This guy has Morphine, but this guy has Hydromorphone (Dilaudid) for this much, but this guy will give us a deal on Dihydrocodeine (DHC) the only problem is, then we can't shoot em" This was a pretty common trope back in the day.

All you really need to do is use an Opioid dosage converter application or even just a table. This should give you the approximate dosage required when converting dosages from one drug to another. The only thing you might consider is that taking large amounts of binder/filler material like that used in pills and tablets, you're likely going to be causing an effect similar to that of taking large doses of antacids. This could be a clinically significant effect for folks with certain health conditions or on certain medications.