How did you overcome your own prejudice?

[psychedelicsoul]

Is anyone here an ex-bigot? How did you overcome your bigotry. I know that's a very subjective question, because thanks to the politically correct world we live in, it's difficult to determine whether someone is a bigot or whether they just have a difference of opinion.
As you've guessed, I used to be prejudice against gays. For various reasons, there's religion, ideology, my own upbringing, and my sense of viseral disgust.

I used to be bi, but I changed through mental and physical conditioning and torture. And would you believe it? I became less hateful. Isn't that ironic? Before I changed my sexuality, I thought that gay people deserved to die. However, since I no longer need to take my self-hate out on others, I decided to not hate them violently or support bullying them. I still have visceral and religious objections to homosexuality, but that's not bigotry, so there's no need to discuss that.
Another way I helped overcome being a bigot was by having friends that aren't bigots. I also learned to be more empathetic to ones who are "actually" oppressed.

But here's the hardest part is balancing my hatred of the LGBT movement with tolerating LGBT people. I'm proud to say I hate the movement, and there are other people who are homosexual that agree with me. I oppose things like anti-discrimination laws that oppress christians, spirit day, tolerance education, the oppression of fundamentalist churches, hate speech laws, the stuff I hear coming out of Elton Johns mouth, changing the birth cerificates of trans people, giving a minority status to LGBT people, anti-ex-gay organizations, and other things that I think go against religious liberty....
But that's when it dawned on me... Those aren't people, those are organizations, movements, and ideas. I can't hold that stuff against an entire group of people. I'm not the GOP, who stupidly rejects homosexuals who agree with them. I don't wanna be like one of those republicans who reject conservatives/liberarians who agree with them, all because they're gay. That's stupid.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outright_Libertarians#Position_on_LGBT_rights
I love these people. And they're LGBT. They're here, they're queer, but they're not gonna force you to get used to it. The fact that there are gays who support religious freedom is amazing to me, and it made me rethink being bigoted and prejudice. Rather, Republicans, libertarians, tea party, conseratives, and everyone else who supports religious freedom need to stand together to protect the dying freedom of religion. And there's nothing better than having LGBT people on our side.
Plus, LGBT people are too small a minority to oppress christians. It's the ideology I don't like, not the people. In fact, one time I saw a facebook commentor who claim to be a lesbian but supporting religious freedom... However, a straight "ally" felt the need to tell her that she's a self-hating bigot who supports oppression. I think I hate straight "allies" a lot more than gays...

And that's how I stopped being homophobic and bigoted... Has anyone else had a past of being racist, sexist, or homophobic?

 

[What 23]

I actually respect, for instance, groups of people that want to maintain their integrity as a separate people.

Currently, there are Latvians, Hungarians, and Estonians who do not wish to be settled by waves of Africans and West Asians. There are many in Western Europe who don't wish to be part of what might be Islamic countries in 50-100 years. Africa is experiencing a population boom, and many a "migrant" will keep trying to cross the sea to get to more opportunity. I blame the world economic systems, for one. I don't hate these people, but I for one would rather see "white people" when I go to parts of Europe, as a majority. Already in London native whites are being blended away. Sweden is on track to become majority non-white. The leftist will come and argue definitions of "white", call me a racist, and try to deconstruct my argument, but the general truth is that a Brit will sooner recognize a Swede as "kin", will more readily be able to mix cultures without much issue, than a white Brit will with a Muslim Subsaharan or "Libyan", or Pakistani.

I've tried to make it clear that I'm not totally against mixing, and I understand that that is the way humans have existed (on some, less rapid level than currently in regions). I don't necessarily blame people for wanting better for themselves. But no amount of racist collective guilting is going to convince me that these people are wrong for not wanting aliens (more so than some others) in their countries at such high amounts:

No appeal to my heart, or guilt for colonization, changes my feelings.

I'm also more or less a supremacist. I think black people are by frequency, well, West-Africans, are superior at running fast. People tend to hate me for this. They also assume that I think that all West Africans can run fast. No, I just know that there is a "reality" that people are different, everywhere, and that differences can be found in populations by place of origin, and that to me, they aren't trivial, and just on the surface. I'd rather Nordic regions remain "Nordic", more or less. Not half Asian/African in a quarter fucking century.

 

[What 23]

Building Trust Starts In Your Eyes

http://www.medicaldaily.com/look-my-eyes-mimicking-pupil-dilation-may-lead-increased-trust-345900

The article goes on to elaborate on how mimicking pupil dilation may lead to increased trust. Once, not long ago, I said I trust- that I tend to like people more whose pupils I can see. I said I like to see their pupils. This means I naturally have a bias toward my own kind. I once turned away from a girl, from romantic involvement, in part, because her eyes were nearly pitch black...

------

"The Purpose of Pupils

Establishing trust through the eyes is one of the innate designs of human biology, according to the Scientific American. The visual cortex located in the back of the brain processes and assembles the actual images we see through the eyes, but an older part of the nervous system controls the pupils. The autonomic nervous system regulates the size of pupils, which are also attuned to other involuntary body functions, such as heart rate and perspiration.

The iris, a dilator muscle within the eye, controls how much light enters the eye in order to protect it from too much light exposure — similar to a camera’s aperture. When light isn’t a threat, the pupil can expand up to eight millimeters, which is approximately the diameter of a chickpea. However, pupils can also be stimulated by the nervous system’s “fight-or-flight” response when the body is under stress, causing them to dilate. The pupils also respond to cognitive and emotional events, such as trying to process a math problem or reflecting on a memory."

------

I didn't know there was a science behind it, but there are at least studies. "Race" is real, even if it might "bleed at the edges".
I do notice I tend to be a lot more defused around people of other "races" who have lighter eyes. I do try to over-ride certain knee-jerk responses, but sometimes, I really do love what is the most frictionless...

Bigot simply means I don't accept your opinion on something, more or less. That I think I'm right. I don't think there is anything inherently wrong about that. European societies have formed some of the basis that the entire world models themselves after. Not that they aren't on some kind of circle.

Also, I guess I try not to pre-judge. I try not to assume. I just seem to think there are trends, and reasons for some things.

 

[ForEverAfter]

23: your posts in this thread remind me of the naive, suggestible - yet highly intelligent - brothers in American History X (before they grow up).

If you're smart enough, you can make anything sound convincing.
But, that doesn't mean it is right.

(See: Adolf Hitler.)

I think you may have some valid points, buried beneath what I interpret as largely inflammatory hate speech (disguised as an expression of your personal freedoms). I don't know how old you are, but you should know better. Diplomacy isn't a nasty word. Nor is grace.

I'd rather Nordic regions remain "Nordic", more or less. Not half Asian/African in a quarter fucking century.

You shouldn't put the word "fucking" in there.
Racist people are always so outraged about their inability to proudly declare themselves racist.
But, nobody is stopping you... I think, really, what you want is for it to be accepted as right.
And, it isn't right: on the contrary, the tone of your posts is wrong IMO.

You can be obnoxious, of course.
You can insist upon exercising your freedoms.

But, we don't have to agree with you.
And you can do it in a more respectable way.

...

The picture you posted of the white women's eyes and the black women's eyes.
I have a bad habit of giving people the benefit of the doubt when they don't deserve it.
So, I'm not going to treat you like a troll... and I'm going to attempt to reason with you.

You've got to see that (the tone of that) message is likely to upset people.
The diversity of the white man and the (so-called) diversity of the black man?
Come on. You're better than that.

Stop overthinking racism until it stops being about people.
This is a sensitive issue; and you're behaving like an ass.

 

[psychedelicsoul]

I actually respect, for instance, groups of people that want to maintain their integrity as a separate people.

Currently, there are Latvians, Hungarians, and Estonians who do not wish to be settled by waves of Africans and West Asians. There are many in Western Europe who don't wish to be part of what might be Islamic countries in 50-100 years. Africa is experiencing a population boom, and many a "migrant" will keep trying to cross the sea to get to more opportunity. I blame the world economic systems, for one. I don't hate these people, but I for one would rather see "white people" when I go to parts of Europe, as a majority. Already in London native whites are being blended away. Sweden is on track to become majority non-white. The leftist will come and argue definitions of "white", call me a racist, and try to deconstruct my argument, but the general truth is that a Brit will sooner recognize a Swede as "kin", will more readily be able to mix cultures without much issue, than a white Brit will with a Muslim Subsaharan or "Libyan", or Pakistani.

I've tried to make it clear that I'm not totally against mixing, and I understand that that is the way humans have existed (on some, less rapid level than currently in regions). I don't necessarily blame people for wanting better for themselves. But no amount of racist collective guilting is going to convince me that these people are wrong for not wanting aliens (more so than some others) in their countries at such high amounts:

No appeal to my heart, or guilt for colonization, changes my feelings.

I'm also more or less a supremacist. I think black people are by frequency, well, West-Africans, are superior at running fast. People tend to hate me for this. They also assume that I think that all West Africans can run fast. No, I just know that there is a "reality" that people are different, everywhere, and that differences can be found in populations by place of origin, and that to me, they aren't trivial, and just on the surface. I'd rather Nordic regions remain "Nordic", more or less. Not half Asian/African in a quarter fucking century.

Listen dude... don't compare your racial views with my choice not to support a movement that I think is harmful for society. I do not feel the same way about sexuality as you do about race.
I'm against what the LGBT movement is doing politically, and I dislike the effects they've had on the government. But that doesn't reflect how I feel about LGBT people. That's the difference. This idea that races shouldn't mix is outdated and stupid.

 

[RdDragon]

I was, not against same sex, never was. I was in the German Military back in 80's lots of friends with US GI's mostly black, I thought they where cool as shit, then i came to USA and became a Citizen, I tried so hard to make friends with black people but it wasn't working at all, so then I hung out with the wrong crowd and just like a fucking brainwash they fed me all this bullshit and hate, so I guess I became a racist myself. truth is I hate noone, I read a lot and educated myself and changed, cuz we all in this fucking mess together.

 

[psychedelicsoul]

I was, not against same sex, never was. I was in the German Military back in 80's lots of friends with US GI's mostly black, I thought they where cool as shit, then i came to USA and became a Citizen, I tried so hard to make friends with black people but it wasn't working at all, so then I hung out with the wrong crowd and just like a fucking brainwash they fed me all this bullshit and hate, so I guess I became a racist myself. truth is I hate noone, I read a lot and educated myself and changed, cuz we all in this fucking mess together.

Yea... Education helps, though I overcame my bigotry with experience and rationalization. But it's different with everyone. I just learned to rationalize why I didn't like a group of people and what I didn't like about them.

 

[What 23]

psychedelicsoul, i didn't mean to disrespect the message of your post, or compare it with mine. I basically read your title of "have you overcome it", and stating that, I don't really want to overcome it, in ways. Or at least I understand the desire to preserve a certain distance/diversity. The system by which we are forced to mix is being dictated by a system of debt, and slavery. I guess, who am I to judge? But populations have boomed in regions, gone down in others, and economies don't allow things for whatever reason to flourish in areas like others, or something, and people move from them, all to places with more seeming value for work and living.

I don't mind it here, so much. I just like the diversity. I laugh with saying that, but it is true. And I'm not opposed to mixing, like some have said. To do so would be opposed to what I am. But the rate at which we have been thrown together as people of differing roots, and reasons why, I don't know...

Ultimately I do choose love, when dealing with others, and there are definitely those of other races who I would align with... Be with. But I find that I want my own, more often than not. And I would prefer to not surrender every last place "we" exist in majority be settled by others, with higher birthrates, making replacement populations at least gradually non-native. Would we do this with plant-life? Do we want it for our children? Politicians will vote one way, and then you will find them living another. At least, the frequency of occurrence will include what is other.

The very system that brings this on another, brings it on itself?
I do change my mind. I think the reaction is natural. I change my mind to be more allowing, to surrender and trust. But I argue.

I know being extreme isn't so good. I understood some of the generalizations I was making. I do apologize for the offense, and I don't mean to say I hate, although I know it comes off this way.

 

[Xorkoth]

Although I see the value in having separate, unique groups of people, and I think it's a beautiful part of humanity, the diversity... I also think it would probably be advantageous to move toward a global genetic mixing. The reasons are at least twofold: for one, just like mutt dogs are generally healthier and more resilient because their genetics are more robust and varied and not as prone to recessive traits as a limited number of genes are recycled through a population, so would broadly mixed humans contain more strengths of different groups, and less chance of negative traits such as syndromes and diseases. Additionally, so much strife in the world is caused by an "us vs them" mentality between groups of people. Imagine a future where everyone's original origin/race was basically indistinguishable. It would be a lot harder to convince people that those guys over there are evil or different.

Anyway I've had prejudices in my life, though nothing too extreme. But growing up, I certainly internalized some of the attitudes that were presented to me by the culture I grew up in. I got over them just by trying my hardest to continue to become more and more aware of my own thoughts and motivations as I got older. I think psychedelics helped me a lot in that regard but a person can become more and more aware of themselves if they try, whether they use psychedelics or not. It's about having as much conscious oversight of your own thoughts as possible. It also helps a whole lot to try to see things from someone else's perspective. Try not to get caught up in patterns of behavior that did not develop out of rationality.

 

[psychedelicsoul]

Although I see the value in having separate, unique groups of people, and I think it's a beautiful part of humanity, the diversity... I also think it would probably be advantageous to move toward a global genetic mixing. The reasons are at least twofold: for one, just like mutt dogs are generally healthier and more resilient because their genetics are more robust and varied and not as prone to recessive traits as a limited number of genes are recycled through a population, so would broadly mixed humans contain more strengths of different groups, and less chance of negative traits such as syndromes and diseases. Additionally, so much strife in the world is caused by an "us vs them" mentality between groups of people. Imagine a future where everyone's original origin/race was basically indistinguishable. It would be a lot harder to convince people that those guys over there are evil or different.

Anyway I've had prejudices in my life, though nothing too extreme. But growing up, I certainly internalized some of the attitudes that were presented to me by the culture I grew up in. I got over them just by trying my hardest to continue to become more and more aware of my own thoughts and motivations as I got older. I think psychedelics helped me a lot in that regard but a person can become more and more aware of themselves if they try, whether they use psychedelics or not. It's about having as much conscious oversight of your own thoughts as possible. It also helps a whole lot to try to see things from someone else's perspective. Try not to get caught up in patterns of behavior that did not develop out of rationality.

Well, see the problem with that is that race woudln't be the only thing mixing. Culture would. And that causes a lot of issues. I think it's best for everyone if different cultures just stayed to themselves.

For example, we don't like homosexuals here in the south. And I wish we could take them all and ship them up north away from us. Just like how in Georgia, Atlanta is filled with gays, because they're not welcome in the rest of Georgia. The reason why I want them out of my South is because the American South is one of the only places in America where Christians are not forced to serve homosexuals, or hire them, or anything like that.

I dont' want diversity, immigration, and other things if it means a change in our culture that I disagree with. So in a way, my so-called prejudice is the gay communities fault. I've seen what homosexuals have done in Colorado, and New Mexico, and I hate it. I hate everything thier community stands for now. I hate the people wearing purple on spirit day and the anti-suicide activists coming and indoctrinating our children. I don't wanna hear their lame sob stories on the news...

However, none of those feelings I have are my fault. Gay people bring homophobia and bigotry onto themselves. Religion cannot be blamed in this day and age for anti-gay hate. It's the fault of the gay agenda. Therefore, I do not want them in my south becuase I never want to see homosexuals get a minority status.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/hitchingpost.asp

 

[Xorkoth]

Read my post again, and think critically about your reasons for these opinions. It's gay peoples' fault that you are a bigot against gay people? How can you possibly believe that? You're playing a game with yourself dude, and you're never going to overcome anything if you're unwilling to see that. But I think you enjoy being able to feel anger/disgust at a group of people, because you're an angry, hurt person who wants scapegoats. The "homosexual agenda" is simply to be accepted and not discrimincated against, the same thing everyone wants. You sound like you're wearing a fucking tinfoil hat.

"Your south"? I live in the south too, why isn't it my south?

 

[jammin83]

I live in the south, and I can honestly say that is the most homophobic, racist, part of the country in existence. I can't wait to get back to CO. Xork, where you live in the south is an exception. Not that im defending his position.

People reguarly drop n bombs here like it's no big deal.

 

[Xorkoth]

I realize that man, just trying to make a point. It's not his south and it's not my south, it's a geographic region of the country that a lot of different kinds of people live in, the same as anywhere else. Even though yes, it's certainly true that there are a higher incidence of bigots.

Bigotry is caused by fear, whether it's because of personal experiences or simply a culture passing along its unfortunate idea of values and no real critical thought is ever performed on the subject. It's not a sensible position, nor anything but a destructive one for everyone.

 

[psychedelicsoul]

Read my post again, and think critically about your reasons for these opinions. It's gay peoples' fault that you are a bigot against gay people? How can you possibly believe that? You're playing a game with yourself dude, and you're never going to overcome anything if you're unwilling to see that. But I think you enjoy being able to feel anger/disgust at a group of people, because you're an angry, hurt person who wants scapegoats. The "homosexual agenda" is simply to be accepted and not discrimincated against, the same thing everyone wants. You sound like you're wearing a fucking tinfoil hat.

"Your south"? I live in the south too, why isn't it my south?

It's an unfortunate result of the movement. I don't mind gay people who don't fit the description I made of them. Unfortunately, a lot of them do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outright_Libertarians
I don't mind having these people here around me.

I'm not a bigot, but I can't deny a big percentage of them want to impose laws that I think are wrong. That's why I don't want them here in the South. I simply want to preserve religious freedom. There are certain freedoms in the North that I think should be here in the South. However, there's certain freedoms in the South that I think should be in the North. In an ideal world, America would have legalized pot, and it would take the minority status away from homosexuals.

I simply don't want gays to be viewed as a minority. I think we should view it the way we view pot smokers, or people with tattoos. I do not think your employer must be forced to accomadate your lifestyle choice.
As your average southerner, and most will tell you they don't hate gays. But practically none of them would support the way gay people sue and shut down business's, or their disdain towards christians.

So it's not that I don't' want gays here.... I don't want the laws they desire, and I don't want their "it gets better" programs in schools. Gays who are not for that are welcome in my eyes. I don't care about sex changes, but I do care if it gets covered by Tricare, Obamacare, or Medicare. I care if the military is forced to pay for it. I care if transgender students are able to hide their sex and date other students.
I care that I can go to jail for having sex with a drunk girl because she's not "knowledgeable enough to consent". However, trans people can have sex while withholding knowledge all they want. That doesn't make me transphobic... because if we adjusted our rape laws to include gender fraud, then I'd have no issue with more trans people here.

 

[Al12]

What 23 is right.

In regards to gays I have nothing against them but I believe gay marriage is wrong even if I'm not religious while instead I'm in favor of civil unions.
Plus I dislike the LGBT movement since its full of leftists and pseudo-commies, even if they have no idea of what communism even means and they would have likely been sent to Siberia if they had lived in Russia or in any eastern european country.

 

[Xorkoth]

You are the definition of a bigot psychedelicsoul, don't delude yourself.

Being gay is not a choice, why would someone choose to subject themselves to attitudes like yours if they didn't have to? Having a tattoo is a choice, sexual preference is not. You don't want gay people telling other gay people that it gets better? You can pretend you're not a bigot all you want but you make it repeatedly clear that you are and I think you actually believe yourself too.

I know plenty of gay Christians by the way. Hell my mom helped to make her church "reconciling" which means they now allow gay people to be anything at the church, there's even a gay pastor now. Makes me proud of her and all of them.

You have the choice to not be a disgusting human being but you have to want it.

I would like to feel less heated about this but you are honestly the first person in a long time who has shaken my faith that humanity can reach the future without exterminating ourselves in the process. Wake the fuck up, please. Don't you want to be as fully conscious as possible?

 

[psychedelicsoul]

You are the definition of a bigot psychedelicsoul, don't delude yourself.

Being gay is not a choice, why would someone choose to subject themselves to attitudes like yours if they didn't have to? Having a tattoo is a choice, sexual preference is not. You don't want gay people telling other gay people that it gets better? You can pretend you're not a bigot all you want but you make it repeatedly clear that you are.

I know plenty of gay Christians by the way. Hell my mom helped to make her church "reconciling" which means they now allow gay people to be anything at the church, there's even a gay pastor now. Makes me proud of her and all of them.

You have the choice to not be a disgusting human being but you have to want it.

It's simple.... People do not choose to like weed. You choose to smoke weed. You do not choose to be gay, buy you choose to be in sexual or romantic relationships or to get married. Homosexuals are discriminated for their behavior if they act like stereotypes, and for their CHOICE to come out, or their CHOICE to get married. They should not be viewed as a minority group the way race is. They're merely facing the social consequences of their choice to love each other. The government should have no part in that.

The issue I have with "it gets better" programs is that they're indoctrinating kids to accept homosexuals, when the parents may not approve. IT's the parents job to teach morality, not the school. I actually dislike the schools more because they're part of the government. Allowing groups like the Trevor Movement to come to school is ideological indoctrination.
I'll support that, when Exodus International is allowed to visit schools. Otherwise, you're enforcing a one-sided viewpoint of a subjective issue. No different than teaching the bible in schools.
I suppose I'm an anti-christian bigot for not wanting the bible in school?
If you take your "It get's better" thing to a private school, that's fine. Because it's not public.

If that's how your church works, then fine... As long as the government doesn't force you do it, I don't give a damn. My school didn't allow gays because it was a christian school. Niether of them are objectively right or wrong. But the "Gay agenda" I speak of is the one that doesn't wanna just leave the fundamentalist Christians alone.
You run your churches, Bakeries, or wedding chapels the way YOU want.
Let the other religious people do THEIR thing.

I can't respect the gay movement till they learn to respect the opposition.

 

[jammin83]

Not true^ The reason we teach kids about homosexuality is so they don't bully and hurt other people that are different than them. You are free to spread your own prejudice to your children if you choose to do so. There have been all kinds of cases where gays have been seriously hurt or murdered. That's why we teach them to accept it, because it's part of life. This is 2015.

 

[psychedelicsoul]

Not true^ The reason we teach kids about homosexuality is so they don't bully and hurt other people that are different than them. You are free to spread your own prejudice to your children if you choose to do so. There have been all kinds of cases where gays have been seriously hurt or murdered. That's why we teach them to accept it, because it's part of life. This is 2015.

Who are you to say what's right and wrong. Kids should be punished for bullying, however, the government has no right to indocrinate him with a form of objective "right and wrong". Kids need only follow the rules. The govenrment doens't have a role in telling them what to think.
If you wanna teach them not to murder gays.... then just teach kids that murder is wrong. However, who are you to objectively make predeterminations on the morality of something and indocrinate kids with it? Telling kids not to murder gays is telling them not to DO something. However, telling them that it's not sinful is telling them to THINK differently. You should teach kids not to do bad things, but not what to think.

It's your opinion that being gay isn't wrong. It's also my opinion. If you teach your kids to accept gays... fine... Leave everyone elses kids alone. Also... Why is the school, a government entity, somehow entitled with the right to say suicide is wrong.
Let's say my religion says suicide is good and is a sacrifice to God. Would I be wrong? No, because suicide is a choice that affects oneself and is niether right nor wrong.

I feel the same way about D.A.R.E. and other anti-drug programs.

 

[jammin83]

You only care about pushing your own personal agenda and not interested in reaching any sound conclusion from this discussion, so it's kind of pointless even talking to you. You can't be reasoned with and will never admit that you are wrong and no amount of sound logic is going to dissuade you. If you can't see how acting violently towards a minority is wrong, you may be even more hopeless than I thought.