Depression How can a depressed person find meaning without psychedelics?

[Mycophile]

So, this is sort of a companion thread with some of it cut and paste from another I just made asking people about whether or not Mescaline has full effects while on an SSRI since I'm on prozac and can't get life changing results from an 8th of shrooms. Now I know not all trips will be life changing, but regardless, they are something I've realized COULD greatly help me if I wasn't on prozac.

I really don't like my life. Like, I'm not suicidal, and some days I'm ok, but I have MAJOR regrets. I do try to be grateful for what I have, but I find it incredibly difficult to change. I have something called Non Verbal Learning Disability which some say is related to Aspergers and which is probably what causes my depression and anxiety. I find it much harder to achieve change in my life than some people, which is why I wish psychedelics had FULL effect on me. I had a good shroom trip over the summer with some mild visuals and a good insight at the end which was aided by nitrous and weed, but then the last trip I took last month was just 6 hours of UTTER DESPAIR.

Now, I am willing to believe that sometimes a bad trip can actually be a good one in disguise. I consider myself somewhat spiritual, and at the age of 43 I have decided that I am going to believe in some kind of higher universal consciousness (I DON'T like the term "God") because without it I feel hopeless. I have not achieved what I want to in life, and while on my last shroom trip I was thinking about how I was recently watching some documentary where someone with horrible OCD tripped ONCE on shrooms and it was life changing and his OCD went away forever and he had all these blissful and incredible insights. I was wondering why someone with depression and anxiety like me couldn't be gifted such a beautiful life-changing experience as that guy, and the answer is obviously because a dumb doctor put me on prozac at age 14 and now I'm 43 and probably can't ever get off of it. I should never have gotten on it in the first place. Psychedelics are SO much better.

I do take shrooms sometimes and have taken LSD many years ago, and I can get some effects, but they are always blunted, and I have some pretty terrible depression and anxiety which could really use the beneficial effects of an UNAFFECTED dose of a psychedelic.

I mean, is it even REMOTELY safe for someone who has been on prozac for 30 years to EVER wean off? My doctor told me he doubted I could ever get off of it.

What else, if not psychedelics, can really help a person like me with depression and anxiety who sees no way out and feels hopeless?

I'm sure there are things, like perhaps having a near death experience, which can, under the right circumstances, change a depressed person's perspective, but I'm not quite sure I want to seek that out LOL. I have done martial arts in the past with the hopes of having a fight because I believed it would bring me the relief I'm seeking, but multiple injuries and some family issues have led to me not being able to train for the past 4 years and I don't really believe that fight will ever happen.

I do use the Wim Hof method of cold showers, ice baths and breathing exercises for relief, and it does help. I continue to search for anything spiritual that will help me appreciate my life more. So, now I'm just rambling...Any responses from people who understand depression and anxiety would be appreciated...

 

[someguyontheinternet]

Why not try ketamine

 

[Mycophile]

Why not try ketamine

I'd definitely like to try Ketamine. I've been looking for it for years but I've never found it. I don't really have the best sources when it comes to certain drugs. I can easily get shrooms, weed, and then legal drugs I like like kratom, phenibut, nitrous, etc, but not that.

I would like to see if I could get Ketamine therapy.

However, I think the idea is also that I'd like very much to find sources to peace of mind that don't necessarily include drugs. Of course, that usually requires working very hard for something, which I'm willing to do most likely, depending on what it is. I don't know, I'll take any kinds of answers I can get in life.

 

[swilow]

I used to really hate myself and be just consumed with regrets and constant negative self talk. I remember once just thinking, damn swilow you're a fucking addict loser who's wasted his life, blah blah and then had a moment where I was like, I would never fucking say that sort of cruel shit to someone else- why say it to me?

I have practised being kinder to myself but with the perspective that I'm going to die one day, all of this will vanish for me, I won't get another shot at this so fucked if I'm going to spend it hating myself for failing to meet insane expectations that even if met dont particularly matter.

Everyone has sorrows, life is truly a brutal and often hideous experience BUT it's only for a while. There's no score being kept anywhere, this isn't a test that you can pass or fail. There are however ways to live a miserable existence and one of those is being a prick to yourself. Don't do it! You're fine, you're a human and that is a confusing thing to be. There is no greater meaning, there's just existing for a little while and then nothing for eternity.

For me, I got my addictions under control and started lifting weights and taking testosterone. I went from being a totally demented drug addict with all sorts of health issues and no prospects to a middle aged, semi-jacked librarian who occasionally takes psychedelics and makes psychedelic music for fun. I've accepted that I'm not going to be remembered after I die, like billions of others, that my suffering isn't unique or exceptional, that there are limited things I can to enjoy my 90 laps around the sun and I'm gonna do that.

I'm kind of tripping so my post is perhaps not especially helpful, but the tldr version is lift weights, and ponder eternity.

 

[Mycophile]

I used to really hate myself and be just consumed with regrets and constant negative self talk. I remember once just thinking, damn swilow you're a fucking addict loser who's wasted his life, blah blah and then had a moment where I was like, I would never fucking say that sort of cruel shit to someone else- why say it to me?

I have practised being kinder to myself but with the perspective that I'm going to die one day, all of this will vanish for me, I won't get another shot at this so fucked if I'm going to spend it hating myself for failing to meet insane expectations that even if met dont particularly matter.

Everyone has sorrows, life is truly a brutal and often hideous experience BUT it's only for a while. There's no score being kept anywhere, this isn't a test that you can pass or fail. There are however ways to live a miserable existence and one of those is being a prick to yourself. Don't do it! You're fine, you're a human and that is a confusing thing to be. There is no greater meaning, there's just existing for a little while and then nothing for eternity.

For me, I got my addictions under control and started lifting weights and taking testosterone. I went from being a totally demented drug addict with all sorts of health issues and no prospects to a middle aged, semi-jacked librarian who occasionally takes psychedelics and makes psychedelic music for fun. I've accepted that I'm not going to be remembered after I die, like billions of others, that my suffering isn't unique or exceptional, that there are limited things I can to enjoy my 90 laps around the sun and I'm gonna do that.

I'm kind of tripping so my post is perhaps not especially helpful, but the tldr version is lift weights, and ponder eternity.

Yeah, I don't like being a dick to myself either and it doesn't help. I do actually choose to believe that there is greater meaning to life, but it's not most likely inherent. You have to find it for yourself or create it IMO. If you decide that your life and your experiences have certain meanings then they do, and if you don't then they might not, or else you might just not be picking up on something important going on unconsciously.

I do lift weights and that is one thing that helps.

I guess I just need to figure out more shit that I find enjoyable and meaningful in life because right now I simply don't do enough. Got to get out more, meet some more people and have some new experiences. Ideally I'd find a lifestyle where I actually feel like getting out of bed more often than not and go to sleep actually feeling hopeful that something new and interesting might happen the next day which is part of the problem. It's not always easy to create new and unique experiences in life. I'm pretty introverted so I'm not that great at going out and just "making shit happen," but I have to do my best just like everyone else. I think I'll figure somethings out if I keep working at it, but I'm always open to suggestions, so if anyone has more ideas about what creates an interesting, meaningful experience (or even simply a good day), I'm all ears lol.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

First of all you will not know if you can get of prozac before you try. And your doctor sounds like a total asshole honestly. There are countless people for whom prozac stopped working and their med is changed when that happens. Likelihood of you being 100% meds free and fine is another story, but not a story that needs to bother you. There are plenty of meds free people who are miserable as it gets.

Another important point, that dude you mention who became full of life or whatever after eating shrooms only once. Well contrary to what some want you to believe, for every such case there's a ton of shrooms eaten that didn't have much more positive effects than edible shrooms on perfect pizza while drinking Istrian Pale Ale and dipping your toes in the Adriatic. If you're sharing that pizza with someone you love or you're starting to love, well than that edible shrooms on pizza, why not white truffles, might work better than one you wish you could get high on.

Psychedelics are great, but one of main things you'll learn if you ever get deep enough in psychedelic world is that as much as some want to make themselves and other believe otherwise, psaychedelics are first of all DRUGS!!!

Idk if you lately noticed praise of opiates on this forum? Very, very, very risky biz imho as I can imagine some young me (who was convinced responsible opiate use is easy as cake and what not cuz of all the internets bright minds and drug advocates) reading that shit and downloading his/her personality that includes but is not limited to - needing NOT wanting opiates or whatever. You see where I'm going? Opiates are way more likely to destroy life than psychedelics are. But it ain't just that simple at all. For a start psychedelics are just as good if not better than opiates in creating illusion of helpfulness. And both with opiates and psychedelics that should be thrown out of window right away if you expect - insert drug - give happy brain. Might work for a moment or two but following realization (maybe after millionth trip) that all is the same as sameness and some people than kill themselves. Sure, it's an extreme example but it's one that happens too. I wont feel need to talk about positive sides and possible great outcomes about drugs, Bill Hicks did without claiming that negative outcomes don't happen. It's a transportation mean, it's a tool, it's a band-aid etc. And all drugs are and you surely know that. Some more, some less likely to fuck you up. And can fuck you up in a whole spectre of ways BUT luckily with some drugs most stop soon before that.

Ever wondered why in most cultures goodies are reserved for shamans? Cuz most people can't handle it. In his 100 people village giving out shrooms to all 100 as much as they want and what will they do with those that go to la-la land, and given enough time out of 100 few will..

It's all so complex that upon drugs wining the war on drugs and establishing truce we won't be nowhere near to taming drugs (as much as that's even possible) and we'll be even further from knowing how to use them properly (with an odd individual who's, born and made for it).

I'm all for drug legalization and all against drug glorification!!!!!!!!! In fact fuck research about how psychoactive drugs help! Legalize all and research how they fuck up people and go with advices from there. We need to crack a few millions eggs to make a big wild asparagus omelet.
And younger I saw myself saving world with psychedelics just as millions others did. If only we could get Jews and Muslims together and feed them some acid, right?

I'm not done with this as myself and countless I've met irl and online and countless more I know a lot about need to move from loads and loads of BS pushed into the wild by just a few people. Cuz common Terence, once a month heroic dose of something worked for you, it ain't a gold standard in taking psychedelics as some seem to think. Or neither is for you way of some amazonian shaman who works with people of different, well everything.. Or..

To be continued..

 

[Mycophile]

First of all you will not know if you can get of prozac before you try. And your doctor sounds like a total asshole honestly. There are countless people for whom prozac stopped working and their med is changed when that happens. Likelihood of you being 100% meds free and fine is another story, but not a story that needs to bother you. There are plenty of meds free people who are miserable as it gets.

Another important point, that dude you mention who became full of life or whatever after eating shrooms only once. Well contrary to what some want you to believe, for every such case there's a ton of shrooms eaten that didn't have much more positive effects than edible shrooms on perfect pizza while drinking Istrian Pale Ale and dipping your toes in the Adriatic. If you're sharing that pizza with someone you love or you're starting to love, well than that edible shrooms on pizza, why not white truffles, might work better than one you wish you could get high on.

Psychedelics are great, but one of main things you'll learn if you ever get deep enough in psychedelic world is that as much as some want to make themselves and other believe otherwise, psaychedelics are first of all DRUGS!!!

Idk if you lately noticed praise of opiates on this forum? Very, very, very risky biz imho as I can imagine some young me (who was convinced responsible opiate use is easy as cake and what not cuz of all the internets bright minds and drug advocates) reading that shit and downloading his/her personality that includes but is not limited to - needing NOT wanting opiates or whatever. You see where I'm going? Opiates are way more likely to destroy life than psychedelics are. But it ain't just that simple at all. For a start psychedelics are just as good if not better than opiates in creating illusion of helpfulness. And both with opiates and psychedelics that should be thrown out of window right away if you expect - insert drug - give happy brain. Might work for a moment or two but following realization (maybe after millionth trip) that all is the same as sameness and some people than kill themselves. Sure, it's an extreme example but it's one that happens too. I wont feel need to talk about positive sides and possible great outcomes about drugs, Bill Hicks did without claiming that negative outcomes don't happen. It's a transportation mean, it's a tool, it's a band-aid etc. And all drugs are and you surely know that. Some more, some less likely to fuck you up. And can fuck you up in a whole spectre of ways BUT luckily with some drugs most stop soon before that.

Ever wondered why in most cultures goodies are reserved for shamans? Cuz most people can't handle it. In his 100 people village giving out shrooms to all 100 as much as they want and what will they do with those that go to la-la land, and given enough time out of 100 few will..

It's all so complex that upon drugs wining the war on drugs and establishing truce we won't be nowhere near to taming drugs (as much as that's even possible) and we'll be even further from knowing how to use them properly (with an odd individual who's, born and made for it).

I'm all for drug legalization and all against drug glorification!!!!!!!!! In fact fuck research about how psychoactive drugs help! Legalize all and research how they fuck up people and go with advices from there. We need to crack a few millions eggs to make a big wild asparagus omelet.
And younger I saw myself saving world with psychedelics just as millions others did. If only we could get Jews and Muslims together and feed them some acid, right?

I'm not done with this as myself and countless I've met irl and online and countless more I know a lot about need to move from loads and loads of BS pushed into the wild by just a few people. Cuz common Terence, once a month heroic dose of something worked for you, it ain't a gold standard in taking psychedelics as some seem to think. Or neither is for you way of some amazonian shaman who works with people of different, well everything.. Or..

To be continued..

I'm kind of confused by what you are saying here?

What's your main point? That psychedelics don't always help? I mean, I agree, but i think by and large they can often be very helpful even if you have a negative experience because it may teach you about yourself.

Why did you say they "create the illusion of helpfulness"? i don't think it's just an illusion. We know they CAN be helpful but aren't ALWAYS.

And why do you think my doctor is an asshole? Just because the one time I asked him if he thought I could ever get off Prozac he said he didn't think so?

I mean, that's just his opinion. He's entitled to it. I don't really think that he is a huge asshole. He's usually pretty nice and I do truly think he wants to help.

 

[Foreigner]

You don't find meaning, you create it.

 

[Mycophile]

You don't find meaning, you create it.

I would agree. Any advice? Anything (non-drug related) that ever worked well for you during times when things weren't going well?

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I get depression relief from heroin/opioids. This is just my experience though.


I feel like my natural self on them. But I can't in good faith recommend some one who isn't already into them to use them. As they do cause dependence & can be addicting. It takes extreme discipline to do this without going overboard tho. And knowledge on how to do it safely. However, I implore you to keep your mind open about other drug options. Psychedelics can't really cure or treat depression realistically cause you can't take them every day or use them in situations where you need to be sober. Real clinical depression is going to be a chronic, most likely lifelong issue. But there may be other drugs out there that help your depression that are viable for use every day or every other day or something.

Ketamine is a good recommendation.
I had a near death/out of body type experience on dextromethorphan. It didn't cure my depression or anything but after I came out of it, I always felt really glad to be alive for up to a week after.


I think it's just going to be a lot of trial & error until you find something that really works for you.

Kratom is a natural weak partial agonist that might help you, although personally I don't feel much from it.


As for creating meaning in your life, try building new relationships with people. Or doing selfless acts for others.
I create my meaning by keeping my friends & family very close, making sure I have as many good times in life as possible & to be grateful for them.
Cause it can all be gone in an instant. We all have to die some day. I know this doesn't really help. I don't think there will ever be a way to fully obliterate your depression (unless you find a medicine that works daily for you). Your best bet is how you go about tolerating it & living as long as you can.

I've had severe major depression going as far back as I can remember. I'm worried it'll never go away & you're about 8 years older than me OP.
I really wish you the best & that you are able to find some peace in your life! You are worth it!

 

[Mycophile]

I get depression relief from heroin/opioids. This is just my experience though.


I feel like my natural self on them. But I can't in good faith recommend some one who isn't already into them to use them. As they do cause dependence & can be addicting. It takes extreme discipline to do this without going overboard tho. And knowledge on how to do it safely. However, I implore you to keep your mind open about other drug options. Psychedelics can't really cure or treat depression realistically cause you can't take them every day or use them in situations where you need to be sober. Real clinical depression is going to be a chronic, most likely lifelong issue. But there may be other drugs out there that help your depression that are viable for use every day or every other day or something.

Ketamine is a good recommendation.
I had a near death/out of body type experience on dextromethorphan. It didn't cure my depression or anything but after I came out of it, I always felt really glad to be alive for up to a week after.


I think it's just going to be a lot of trial & error until you find something that really works for you.

Kratom is a natural weak partial agonist that might help you, although personally I don't feel much from it.


As for creating meaning in your life, try building new relationships with people. Or doing selfless acts for others.
I create my meaning by keeping my friends & family very close, making sure I have as many good times in life as possible & to be grateful for them.
Cause it can all be gone in an instant. We all have to die some day. I know this doesn't really help. I don't think there will ever be a way to fully obliterate your depression (unless you find a medicine that works daily for you). Your best bet is how you go about tolerating it & living as long as you can.

I've had severe major depression going as far back as I can remember. I'm worried it'll never go away & you're about 8 years older than me OP.
I really wish you the best & that you are able to find some peace in your life! You are worth it!

I don't think Opioids are a good idea either. Kratom is the strongest one I will use but even that has caused me withdrawal which i don't like. I have access to naltrexone and wish I could figure out how to make ultra low dose naltrexone as people say that potentiates and eliminates withdrawal. Someone on here told me how but I suck at making stuff and I've never felt confident in trying. I have heard good things about Tianeptine for depression but even that seems risky as I don't want to get addicted. Have you ever tried Tianeptine and if so, how does it work for you? Is it too addictive in your opinion to try for someone like me?

I actually disagree that the right kind of psychedelic experience can't change your out look on life, sometimes even permanently, without you taking it regularly. I've seen documentaries where people with serious issues had life long results from just one really good trip, but that kind of thing isn't the norm and also those people are probably not on SSRIs which weaken the trips. I wish I'd never have been put on them because then I'd get full effects from psychedelics but the truth is that I had social anxiety at a very young age which the prozac did in fact help with.

Good advice on making connections with people. Really, that is where it's at. I spend too much time alone or with relatively few people. I did do something new the other day and met an interesting dude who i plan to hang out with in the future. People just need people. I sometimes forget how important it is. We are nothing without eachother.

I would say I have a bit more hope for my depression maybe than to simply say it will never go away. I don't have classic depression but rather, a mixture of depression and anxiety symptoms which come from having something called Nonverbal Learning Disability which is actually in some ways related to aspergers. That's not necessarily better or worse than your typical severe depression, it's just different. I'm neurodiverse/neurodivergent as opposed to neurotypical so my brain works differently. Many people with depression can still be neurotypicals I think. So yeah, it's somewhat different. Thanks for you well wishes. I'll keep trying different stuff and truth is, drugs aren't always the best solutions anyway to these kinds of problems.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

I don't think Opioids are a good idea either.

Opiates are only good idea if you are willing to accept that you'll be good for some time and eventually regret it A LOT. Sure there are exceptions, and I like to think I'm one of those but I'm well aware that you can feel grate for years or decades and than kill yourself when you realize illusion of help you were getting.
Opiates are great for pain. Both physical and mental but all folks here rambling about ancients using it since ever seem to miss that they weren't getting high as fuck all the time and they neither used it so much that normal doses stopped working etc.
There's no mentions about problems with opiate addiction, not cuz they were legal but cuz they were used differently. As a matter of fact in my part of world you should check out any tradition concerning use of opiates and none is for daily boo - boo.
Take Macedonia, in some villages when folks get married they still as a present get opium cake/bread (actually just a name for a big chunk of opium) but that's for pain, diarrhoea, very hard days etc and not daily boo-boo and natural blues that's normal part of life.

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

I have practised being kinder to myself but with the perspective that I'm going to die one day, all of this will vanish for me, I won't get another shot at this so fucked if I'm going to spend it hating myself for failing to meet insane expectations that even if met dont particularly matter.

Everyone has sorrows, life is truly a brutal and often hideous experience BUT it's only for a while. There's no score being kept anywhere, this isn't a test that you can pass or fail. There are however ways to live a miserable existence and one of those is being a prick to yourself. Don't do it! You're fine, you're a human and that is a confusing thing to be. There is no greater meaning, there's just existing for a little while and then nothing for eternity.

THIS

A Billion times over THIS!!!!!!!!

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

I get depression relief from heroin/opioids. This is just my experience though.

And you have used Heroin for how long?

My 22 years experience on Heroin would say less than 8 years, am I correct?
PAWS will crush you my friend, I Promise you this.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

What's your main point? That psychedelics don't always help? I mean, I agree, but i think by and large they can often be very helpful even if you have a negative experience because it may teach you about yourself.

Yeah, true but you know what they say about drugs, use them to make good times better not bad times good. Psychedelics are drugs. It's a lot more to what I'm trying to say but will keep trying to explain that gradually as otherwise I need to write a book to make it somewhat clear.
That's not my main point nor simple true but part of complexity of issue that arises from some who praise psychedelics as medicine for this and that without understanding it. You definitely don't seem one of those but surely as we all did picked up a bit too much of that, better said propaganda than philosophy as it's basically clash that keeps going in extremes. Either psychedelics make you grow horns or psychedelics makes you grow wings and neither is true.

Why did you say they "create the illusion of helpfulness"? i don't think it's just an illusion. We know they CAN be helpful but aren't ALWAYS.

Cuz that's what they mostly do. That's what all drugs do. Some much more. Opiates, heroin was basically considered panacea for mostly just masking symptoms while curing nothing.
What can REALLY help is experience incorporated with a complete life-style change. Seems logical and obvious but that has nothing to do with reality of use of psychedelics and drugs by 99.999% of people.

And why do you think my doctor is an asshole? Just because the one time I asked him if he thought I could ever get off Prozac he said he didn't think so?

I mean, that's just his opinion. He's entitled to it. I don't really think that he is a huge asshole. He's usually pretty nice and I do truly think he wants to help.

I apologize for calling your doctor asshole. Opinions are like assholes and professionals should not even share such opinions as it's well known in practice people stop way stronger medicine after being ages on those and succeed in creating better life. Maybe not many, but he should count in those and present you with options instead saying something that can really put down someone from even trying.

I actually disagree that the right kind of psychedelic experience can't change your out look on life, sometimes even permanently, without you taking it regularly. I've seen documentaries where people with serious issues had life long results from just one really good trip, but that kind of thing isn't the norm and also those people are probably not on SSRIs which weaken the trips. I wish I'd never have been put on them because then I'd get full effects from psychedelics but the truth is that I had social anxiety at a very young age which the prozac did in fact help with.

Those things do happen but many of those documentaries would have a very sad part two.
Not only SSRIs should come with a black box warning and I bet ya once psychedelics become a mainstream meds they will too.
Is it worth the risk. In many cases definitely yes. Is risk really that big, in most cases no, but there's a whole range and I think you can see it's not all milk and honey with anything drug related.

I'll get back to your question what's the main point. Main point is that for many pizza with white truffles with a lovely lady will work way better than a lot of shrooms or whatever. Why not both, right? That's the way. Consider drugs as a band-aid as a lunching pad as a spice and not a main meal.

Simply being fit or not has always influenced my trips tremendously and that's just one part of set & setting. And set & setting are mostly looked as of importance just prior and during the trip but in fact to get real, lasting benefits from drugs and not illusion that they help you need to treat your life and whole world as a stage where you prepare for life by living and while doing that you also prepare for that wonderful girl or that wonderful sea or that wonderful xtals and powders etc and transform them and incorporate them.

I'm against idea that you need some shaman to get the most out of aya, you need to become shaman! But take what they lea rend over eons and that's that preparation before and incorporation after experience are as important as trip itself. That's how some get to the point where even alcohol can be powerful healing tool while other get no more out of acid than out of fent.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

And you have used Heroin for how long?

My 22 years experience on Heroin would say less than 8 years, am I correct?
PAWS will crush you my friend, I Promise you this.

Some can pull it of for a lot longer than 8 years but than regret using even more. Those who manage to pull it of life-long manage cuz they die early.
Great example I know is one biz man on pure H decades and decades and now for over decade in his 70s he's actively trying to stop. He has more money than he can spend, he has family, he has best heroin in the world yet his life is hell.

Who would guess what goes up must go down, right

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

Some can pull it of for a lot longer than 8 years but than regret using even more. Those who manage to pull it of life-long manage cuz they die early.
Great example I know is one biz man on pure H decades and decades and now for over decade in his 70s he's actively trying to stop. He has more money than he can spend, he has family, he has best heroin in the world yet his life is hell.

Who would guess what goes up must go down, right

And what is YOUR LIVED EXPERIENCE on Heroin?

I don't give a fuck about some random person you know, I want your lived experience.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

And you have used Heroin for how long?

My 22 years experience on Heroin would say less than 8 years, am I correct?
PAWS will crush you my friend, I Promise you this.

I've been on opioids for 16 years straight (19-35). Almost 17. Obviously it wasn't just heroin in those 16 years.
I've spent plenty of time on diacetylmorphine, tramadol, hydrocodone, buprenorphine, propoxyphene, methadone & some fentanyl experience.
Every single one of those opioids helped my depression to varying degrees, with the exception of fentanyl.

If we're to include my sporadic, once-in-awhile use in my teen years, then we're talking more like 20 years.
I didn't actually get dependent or even find them particularly enjoyable until I was 19. And then I went through withdrawal once a month, every month for 10 of those 16 years.

So wow, you have maybe 5-6 more years of using than me, so you're definitely the expert & I'm just a stupid amateur.

I'm talking about some one who has a supply. Obviously withdrawal & PAWS are an issue, but when actively using, they aren't.

I'm well aware of PAWS, I'm not an idiot. I have no plans on stopping opiates anyway.

I mean do you think Im saying some one can use an opioid & magically their depression will be gone forever? Cause that's not how depression works. And that's obviously not what I said.

If some one stopped ANYTHING they're taking that helps their depression, they're most likely going to run into problems. Doesn't matter what drug it is. You can stop an SSRI & have problems. If you stop eating & sleeping you're gonna have problems, etc..etc..

Major depression can't be "magically cured", and if some one claims theirs was, they probably didn't have a genuine clinical diagnosis of depression then to begin with. Everyone experiences temporary depression from time to time. And some people end up on meds when their depression would have resolved on it's own anyway. And then those people run around and say "oh look, my depression was cured! so yours can be too!"
A real depression case isn't something that's going to just go away. So all that leaves is using meds/tools to treat your symptoms & trying to live with it.


I'm glad you find my lived experience & comment to OP hilarious though. Love the assumptions too. Pretty condescending..
It's not like my experience is unique either, plenty of people find depression relief from opioids.
After all, they didn't use them for this purpose in the early 1900's because they didn't work.

 

[Opi_Kid_Rock]

I took MDMA recently which allowed me to deeply introspect and unblock certain emotional baggage. I wrote into a personal journal during the process. I found it very therapeutic.

So just like the other thread. I’m saying that I combined both Ketamine and MDMA on different sessions for different purposes with the aim of doing self-psychedelically-assisted-therapy and depression treatment if you will.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I don't think Opioids are a good idea either. Kratom is the strongest one I will use but even that has caused me withdrawal which i don't like. I have access to naltrexone and wish I could figure out how to make ultra low dose naltrexone as people say that potentiates and eliminates withdrawal. Someone on here told me how but I suck at making stuff and I've never felt confident in trying. I have heard good things about Tianeptine for depression but even that seems risky as I don't want to get addicted. Have you ever tried Tianeptine and if so, how does it work for you? Is it too addictive in your opinion to try for someone like me?

I actually disagree that the right kind of psychedelic experience can't change your out look on life, sometimes even permanently, without you taking it regularly. I've seen documentaries where people with serious issues had life long results from just one really good trip, but that kind of thing isn't the norm and also those people are probably not on SSRIs which weaken the trips. I wish I'd never have been put on them because then I'd get full effects from psychedelics but the truth is that I had social anxiety at a very young age which the prozac did in fact help with.

Good advice on making connections with people. Really, that is where it's at. I spend too much time alone or with relatively few people. I did do something new the other day and met an interesting dude who i plan to hang out with in the future. People just need people. I sometimes forget how important it is. We are nothing without eachother.

I would say I have a bit more hope for my depression maybe than to simply say it will never go away. I don't have classic depression but rather, a mixture of depression and anxiety symptoms which come from having something called Nonverbal Learning Disability which is actually in some ways related to aspergers. That's not necessarily better or worse than your typical severe depression, it's just different. I'm neurodiverse/neurodivergent as opposed to neurotypical so my brain works differently. Many people with depression can still be neurotypicals I think. So yeah, it's somewhat different. Thanks for you well wishes. I'll keep trying different stuff and truth is, drugs aren't always the best solutions anyway to these kinds of problems.

I'm not recommending anyone go do opioids, just sharing what worked for me with the least amount of bothersome side effects (other than withdrawals, but that's a different story). I use to be incredibly suicidal & self destructive. But on opioids, I actually respect myself & care about my health. Having something I can take that stops me from being suicidal within seconds/minutes is incredibly valueable to me.

What works for one person doesn't always work for some one else. And by mentioning that I'm able to treat mine with opioids (something most people don't even think of when it comes to this kind of stuff) was meant to show you that there might still be things out there that will work for you that you didn't even think could work (besides opioids). Hopefully you get what I mean. I definitely don't recommend getting an opioid habit though, as if you don't have access to any then eventually your depression can get worse.

It's good to have hope. I'm just being realistic in my case. If my depression hasn't disappeared by now (I'm 35), I gotta be realistic that it's something I'm going to have to deal with forever & try to get ahead of that. Almost everyone goes through some natural depression in their life. A lot of these people get eaten up by the pharma industry & pushed on meds, when their depression would have resolved on it's own anyway. But the fact is, these people weren't actually clinically depressed to begin with. So when they feel better, they go around saying their depression was "cured" and pushing a lot of people into believing that theirs can be cured too. And for those who are depressed naturally, they can. But for those who are genetically predisposed to clinical depression, it's most likely going to be an issue you'll face on & off.


If you'd like to try the nalrexone in low doses, you could just try breaking the pill into quarters & taking those really small quarter doses. I don't have much experience with this though, so I probably won't be of much help.

I have tried tianeptine sulfate, the longer acting kind before. And it was from a reputable nootropics vendor, years ago.
Honestly, I have no idea why people think tianeptine is good at all. I didn't feel any opioid-like effects from it at all. I did notice some mood stabilizing properties of it, which weren't unpleasant, but not exactly mood "lifting" either... Just a flatness of my emotions.
So I was pretty disappointed with it. I've heard the sodium formula is better, but I'm still skeptical. Cause the sulfate version is just a longer acting form. And I took it at a time when my tolerance was low & I still didn't feel any opioid effects from it. Yet stuff like methadone & buprenorphine are also long acting & while they might not be as euphoric, you can still tell you've taken an opioid when you take those. So the fact that I didn't feel shit from the tianeptine sulfate, makes me think the sodium probably isn't that much better.

You might have a totally different experience with it though. Since it didn't have any enjoyable effects for me, I would say that addiction is probably nothing to worry about from it. I've read that tianeptine itself can be kind of caustic, so it's possible that it's not a good drug for your organs either. I wouldn't even bother with it, personally. But all you can do is try it if you're curious.

Psychedelic experiences absolutely can be life-changing for some people.
Just in my experience, they helped for about a few days - a week after a trip & then eventually I'd go back to feeling like shit anyways.

My mom passed away back in 2021 & I ended up in a verk dark place. Had to move away from all my friends & the town I knew.
I became very isolated. Almost no social interaction at all for the past 2-3 years.
I thought "this is it, my life is over, this is all it will ever be anymore. just constant apathy, boredom & depression".
But I've recently made some new friends & have had some experiences that have made me kind of glad that I've stuck around.

No matter how horrible you feel or how dark life gets, eventually you'll have a day where you'll feel invigorated & happy to be alive again.
It just seems like the time in between those days has gotten longer & longer (in my life anyway).

It's great you met this interesting guy! You two could have some fun times together if you hang out again & more in the future.
Having things to look forward to can help keep life a bit exciting. As long as you have the energy for it.

I do have days where I have the option to socialize & do stuff, but some times I choose not to because I just don't have the energy for it. Or I need the space & the peace & quiet. I have a lot of anxiety & incessant worrying all the time as well. And it sucks when people wanna hang with me or do something & I have to tell them no, simply because I'm not feeling good.

Novelty is also great when you can do it. Take a vacation. Go on a roadtrip. Do something you've never done before. If you can find the motivation & energy to do so that is (which can be incredibly hard when you're depressed). You'll have those moments again where you'll be happy you did & are still here.

You could fall in love one day. You could win the lotto & own a nice big house. Anything can happen!

Do you like animals?? I've found that having a pet or taking care of an animal/person can be really rewarding. Cause once you're attached to that pet, you know that their well-being depends on you & they need you. However losing a pet is traumatic as fuck & once put me into a depressive episode that was so bad that I didn't leave my bedroom for 6 months. I had to have other people do all my shopping & running around for me because I just couldn't do anything anymore.

Hang in there my friend!
Cheers!