How America Botched Cannabis Legalization | Forbes

[neversickanymore]

Thoughts?

Hint Hint.. Cali weed hasn't been the gold standard for a long time at this point. See the shit they were grinding.. unsellable garbage.

I still think it will pan out like the wine market... with possibly the super high end remaining on the unregulated market.

Allot of people who had questionable talent and skills got into this and then eventually the market sent them packing Sorry, but if you cant grow the FIRE you are going to be pushed out by the people who can produce the new commercial the cheapest. Nostalgia is not going to bring cali outdoor back into the spotlight.

If you look at a similar market.. beer. Well their is a flourishing market for craft/micro beers that compete very well with macro breweries. Find your nitch and if you don't have a retail dispensary liscence your shit outa luck in the business. Consider unionizing.. for real. Then you can negotiate a union contract for all your product.

Yeah.. my fields and a few other talented growers secured contracts with Willies Reserve.. my rooms were already pre sold week 6. Do you think I gave up much of the magic? Not a chance.. now when the grows conglomerate into the winners of the champions of the new normal commercial.. I'm going to light the Fire back up small scale. All I'm looking for is a sweet "Family" business and I'm sure to accomplish that.

kinda interesting listening to a bunch of people that closed out allot of people bitching about being closed out themselves?

 

[Mycophile]

I don't really feel like watching this, but is the idea that supposedly weed quality is going to go down because of legalization?

If it is then I don't really see why that has to be the case at all. People who know their weed will pay more for quality product and will know inferior weed when they see it/smoke it.

I mean I'm in New York and we only just legalized here and in New Jersey, but I've bought very good weed in both states and at a good price.

At the one place near me I've been going I've actually been able to buy quarters of quality weed for >no prices< WAY less then I'd pay on the street.

And if we are talking about assuming quality would go down in legal areas we may as well talk about Amsterdam, and while i haven't been there since 2004, they had incredible weed and hash and yet it had already been legal there for decades.

I tend to doubt that finding quality weed at a reasonable price will be a problem in most legal states if you just know where to look.

Also, what do you mean by the "unregulated market" when you say that's where the quality will be? You mean illegally sold weed on the street like the good old days? I don't see why that would happen, but then again I don't understand your comparison to the wine market because I doubt many people are buying wine from street dealers lol.

 

[neversickanymore]

@Mycophile I don't feel like reading your post since you didn't watch the u tube/main topic of the thread. So basically you posted all that I didn't read off pure blind assumption?

I'm happy to read your take if you take less than a half hour to watch it.

 

[neversickanymore]

If you look at some of the points brought up.

They are blaming government tax and fees for knocking Cali growers out. I don’t see a whole hell of allot of validity in this.

Cali outdoor or basic greenhouse will never compete with the fire indoor or modern cannabis greenhouse. Do these people really think that an old school greenhouse can even come close to producing the quality product rooms that are dancing in CO2, completely climate controlled, and growing under watt controllable double ended sunshine etc. You have to be shitting me.

Traditional greenhouse production has advantages.. it’s cheap. When your in a competitive business it’s smart to take advantage of your advantages.

Thing is taking advantage of producing product in cheaper and cheaper ways does not lead to better product.

So you have a way of growing that has been outclassed for a long time and now on a huge scale.

>no prices< pounds.. what’s next mexi?

 

[Jeebis2]

This is so true. As a black/gray market cultivator and hash rosin producer im seeing this very thing play out here In New York.

The medical market is so damn over priced and filled with 95% mso's. The prices are extreme, too. A half gram 90%thc cartridge is >no prices< dollars at best. Full grams start at >price<. I only purchase carts and edibles from mmj facilities, but it's not realistic. Flower also isn't anywhere near the quality it should be. If medical flower tests over 20% thc/25% total cannabinoids than it is I the very top percentage of medical stuff (which on average is >price</8th and bulk stuff is only recently becoming available at >price< an ounce......which are substantially more than gray market

But all of these weekly vending markets showcase the real local talent. Recreational is headed the same way.....I did the math. Based on how ny taxes by potency, a 30%thc 8th would run you >price< and change.

Thank God for home grow. He'll my mmj dispensary sells clones for >price<.....and im cool with that.

 

[Thomas Davie]

@neversickanymore Canadian Cannabis federal legalization, which is something the US does not yet have, was incredibly botched at first. All I wanted to do was scream, rage and shout at;

-The price of legal weed when introduced was ~50% greater than what BM/legacy was charging
-The quality was incredibly bad and far worse than BM
-Selection/genetics available were laughable
-If you found something good, chances are that it was a one off

And I found myself headed back to BM because the selection that I was purchasing from my licensed producer was, instead, diverted to the recreational legal market for a higher sale price point.

So yeah, I wasn’t happy with legalization when it hit. I felt like they were trying to turn an artform/long acquired skill into something turnkey and incredibly industrial in nature.

My big hope for legalization was and still is the legality of farm to tables sales. or farmer’s markets/open Cannabis exchanges (like the way cattle is sold). I go to a lot of farmer’s markets. Why not sell Cannabis there?

Tom

 

[neversickanymore]

I think we will eventually see high end craft mj become a real strong part of the market. Most MJ consumers are total weed snobs So that should easily promote a strong high end fire craft market.

Sure the shit gets me high.. but hey keystone, everclear and Francia gets me high, but I certainly don’t drink them.

 

[Mycophile]

This is so true. As a black/gray market cultivator and hash rosin producer im seeing this very thing play out here In New York.

The medical market is so damn over priced and filled with 95% mso's. The prices are extreme, too. A half gram 90%thc cartridge is 55 dollars at best. Full grams start at 85. I only purchase carts and edibles from mmj facilities, but it's not realistic. Flower also isn't anywhere near the quality it should be. If medical flower tests over 20% thc/25% total cannabinoids than it is I the very top percentage of medical stuff (which on average is 50/8th and bulk stuff is only recently becoming available at 200 an ounce......which are substantially more than gray market

But all of these weekly vending markets showcase the real local talent. Recreational is headed the same way.....I did the math. Based on how ny taxes by potency, a 30%thc 8th would run you 75 and change.

Thank God for home grow. He'll my mmj dispensary sells clones for 50.....and im cool with that.

I mean i don't really understand most of what you are saying, but I'm in NY and buy recreational rather than medical (perhaps if necessary I'll get a medical card to save money which would be very easy but I see no need right now) and all i know is that I'm getting great weed for affordable prices. I can get quarters of quality weed sometimes for >no prices<, and I just walked out of a store with pre-rolled joints of purple haze, pink kush and northern lights, and an 8th of BRIGHT PURPLE weed for >price<. Now that price isn't incredible, but that's cause it's the best stuff the guy had. He had perfectly reasonable 8ths of quality weed also for >prices<, and in 25 years of smoking i can tell you that I NEVER illegally (or legally in Amsterdam) bought an 8th for >price<.

I've never understood the industry or really cared about it. I guess all I care about is that I can get affordable good quality weed, and I tend to doubt that's going to stop being the case anytime soon.

If somehow prices did start to skyrocket I think potheads would complain and we'd see weed prices on the illegal street market go WAY WAY down to compete. Then most of us would go back to buying on the street like we always did, and I would assume at that point the legal market would start lowering their prices as well if they started to take a major hit because they would want to corner the market.

 

[Mycophile]

@Mycophile I don't feel like reading your post since you didn't watch the u tube/main topic of the thread. So basically you posted all that I didn't read off pure blind assumption?

I'm happy to read your take if you take less than a half hour to watch it.

I hear you. I'm just a combination of lazy and busy lol. If I feel like better comprehending your post then I'll watch the video. For now, I don't care enough lol.

 

[neversickanymore]

Hey thanks for letting us all know that @Mycophile.

As you don’t know the business.. I’d skip the preroll .. just a heads up.

 

[Jeebis2]

I mean i don't really understand most of what you are saying, but I'm in NY and buy recreational rather than medical (perhaps if necessary I'll get a medical card to save money which would be very easy but I see no need right now) and all i know is that I'm getting great weed for affordable prices. I can get quarters of quality weed sometimes for $50, and I just walked out of a store with pre-rolled joints of purple haze, pink kush and northern lights, and an 8th of BRIGHT PURPLE weed for $50. Now that price isn't incredible, but that's cause it's the best stuff the guy had. He had perfectly reasonable 8ths of quality weed also for $25, $35 and $45, and in 25 years of smoking i can tell you that I NEVER illegally (or legally in Amsterdam) bought an 8th for $25.

I've never understood the industry or really cared about it. I guess all I care about is that I can get affordable good quality weed, and I tend to doubt that's going to stop being the case anytime soon.

If somehow prices did start to skyrocket I think potheads would complain and we'd see weed prices on the illegal street market go WAY WAY down to compete. Then most of us would go back to buying on the street like we always did, and I would assume at that point the legal market would start lowering their prices as well if they started to take a major hit because they would want to corner the market.

I guess I was using the current mmj system here to highlight alot of the issues I have with legalization.

Hell, when im not growing my own im not paying more than like >no prices< for a qp of tippy top shelf, where mso's (multi-state operators) and organized industry gouges the public.

Side note: I recommend you get your ny card because legal products will be far cheaper (base price, no tax), available (mmj gets priority), and you ACTUALLY have some legal protections via the card......plus medical carts are fire lol

 

[Jerry Atrick]

Hey guys, I hate to rain on anyone's parade but specific prices are not allowed in this forum. I understand the prices y'all are quoting are in legal states but that does not diminish the Posting Rules of Cannabis Discussion. Thanks!

 

[Mycophile]

Hey thanks for letting us all know that @Mycophile.

As you don’t know the business.. I’d skip the preroll .. just a heads up.

Skip the"preroll"?

I don't know what you mean.

Don't smoke my pre-rolled joints?

Why wouldn't I?

I will definitely be smoking them at some point lol, and I'll know if they are legit good stuff as I smoked those same strains in both Amsterdam and the U.S. before.

 

[neversickanymore]

Skip the"preroll"?

I don't know what you mean.

Don't smoke my pre-rolled joints?

Why wouldn't I?

I will definitely be smoking them at some point lol, and I'll know if they are legit good stuff as I smoked those same strains in both Amsterdam and the U.S. before.

Often they are made from parts of the harvest that are somewhat sub par.. like the trim and lower undeveloped flower.

 

[Mycophile]

Often they are made from parts of the harvest that are somewhat sub par.. like the trim and lower undeveloped flower.

Could be the case, but these ones I bought are SUPPOSEDLY purple haze, northern lights and pink kush, so if they are then they should be quality regardless of the part of the plant used I'd tend to think.

 

[neversickanymore]

Could be the case, but these ones I bought are SUPPOSEDLY purple haze, northern lights and pink kush, so if they are then they should be quality regardless of the part of the plant used I'd tend to think.

I love that you brought up the NL.. its old school and one of my favorite strains. NL5? I just ask because there are a few. So you are almost assuredly getting the strain you bought, but no, trim will be lower quality as its resinous leaves and not flower. The lower less mature flowers are not as developed and thus are often comprised of resinous leafy and significantly less resinous immature flower. In some cases the lower flower can taste amazing, even compared to finished canopy flower. Especially in hybrids composed of genetics that have different maturity times. Overall though you generally get a less potent, harsher (because of the leaf %) and less desirable bouquet etc because the trim and lower buds can be neglected during curing. When they test out product the best sample is sent to the lab and this is used for determination and labeling for that entire strains harvest at that time. Variance in potency from plant to plant and from harvest location on individual plants certainly fluctuate. So when you look at the label your looking at best possible scenario.

I'm not saying that all preroll is made of this, but its a very common practice to sell less desirable product.

I'm not saying smoking preroll undesirable as they are convenient, cheap and often times less potent is better with grass.

 

[Mycophile]

I love that you brought up the NL.. its old school and one of my favorite strains. NL5? I just ask because there are a few. So you are almost assuredly getting the strain you bought, but no, trim will be lower quality as its resinous leaves and not flower. The lower less mature flowers are not as developed and thus are often comprised of resinous leafy and significantly less resinous immature flower. In some cases the lower flower can taste amazing, even compared to finished canopy flower. Especially in hybrids composed of genetics that have different maturity times. Overall though you generally get a less potent, harsher (because of the leaf %) and less desirable bouquet etc because the trim and lower buds can be neglected during curing. When they test out product the best sample is sent to the lab and this is used for determination and labeling for that entire strains harvest at that time. Variance in potency from plant to plant and from harvest location on individual plants certainly fluctuate. So when you look at the label your looking at best possible scenario.

I'm not saying that all preroll is made of this, but its a very common practice to sell less desirable product.

I'm not saying smoking preroll undesirable as they are convenient, cheap and often times less potent is better with grass.

How do you tell if you weed is trim vs flower or buds?

I don't know if it's NL5 or not. Never heard of that. They just called it Northern Lights, which I smoked in Amsterdam and the U.S. but it's been so long I won't know for sure by taste or feel if it's the same. I just find it badass to be able to walk into a store and see strains like purple haze, northern lights, pink kush, purple kush, sour diesel, etc.

I obviously know what good buds/nuggets look like, so is that also what people are referring to when they use the term "flower?"

That's what this guy calls his 8ths, like the 8th of very good purple looking bud I bought (I don't know what strain that is) and it's full of buds.

I mean I've been smoking and using different cannabis products for 25 years, I just don't always know the finer details to what I'm smoking.

I could potentially see them using more shake or broken up buds or trim to roll the joints, but that doesn't matter much to me.

 

[neversickanymore]

How do you tell if you weed is trim vs flower or buds?

I don't know if it's NL5 or not. Never heard of that. They just called it Northern Lights, which I smoked in Amsterdam and the U.S. but it's been so long I won't know for sure by taste or feel if it's the same. I just find it badass to be able to walk into a store and see strains like purple haze, northern lights, pink kush, purple kush, sour diesel, etc.

I obviously know what good buds/nuggets look like, so is that also what people are referring to when they use the term "flower?"

That's what this guy calls his 8ths, like the 8th of very good purple looking bud I bought (I don't know what strain that is) and it's full of buds.

I mean I've been smoking and using different cannabis products for 25 years, I just don't always know the finer details to what I'm smoking.

I could potentially see them using more shake or broken up buds or trim to roll the joints, but that doesn't matter much to me.

Yeah, it's an old school Sensi Seed Bank (Amsterdam) strain and its genetics are in all kinds of modern hybrid strains.

Flower, in my mind at least, just refers to traditional relatively unprocessed (besides trimming and curing etc).

I could potentially see them using more shake or broken up buds or trim to roll the joints

yep thats exactly the case

An easy way to tell.. not that its obvious all the time is how dark the product is. That and the taste, smell and harshness.

 

[Mycophile]

I guess I was using the current mmj system here to highlight alot of the issues I have with legalization.

Hell, when im not growing my own im not paying more than like >no prices< for a qp of tippy top shelf, where mso's (multi-state operators) and organized industry gouges the public.

Side note: I recommend you get your ny card because legal products will be far cheaper (base price, no tax), available (mmj gets priority), and you ACTUALLY have some legal protections via the card......plus medical carts are fire lol

If I got a MMJ card do you think my psychiatrist would be able to see that I have one through his computer if I didn't tell him?

I'd rather not tell him that I smoke weed as I'm not sure whether or not he'd be opposed to it and I'd rather not get into an unpleasant conversation, even despite the fact that it's legal, because I also use naltrexone to help me drink less frequently and take Klonopin which is a controlled substance and those kinds of things might be more likely to make him think I'm an addict which I'm not. I don't want him seeing I also have an MMJ card to put the idea that I use certain drugs even further into his mind.

 

[neversickanymore]

If you look at some of the points brought up.

They are blaming government tax and fees for knocking Cali growers out. I don’t see a whole hell of allot of validity in this.

Cali outdoor or basic greenhouse will never compete with the fire indoor or modern cannabis greenhouse. Do these people really think that an old school greenhouse can even come close to producing the quality product rooms that are dancing in CO2, completely climate controlled, and growing under watt controllable double ended sunshine etc. You have to be shitting me.

Traditional greenhouse production has advantages.. it’s cheap. When your in a competitive business it’s smart to take advantage of your advantages.

Thing is taking advantage of producing product in cheaper and cheaper ways does not lead to better product.

So you have a way of growing that has been outclassed for a long time and now on a huge scale.

>no prices< pounds.. what’s next mexi?

The price to produce a pound.. 100$us was in the video.