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Heroin to Suboxone: Avoiding precipitated withdrawals

Awesome. I'm hoping I can get to where you're at. You just have to stay the course.. and yeah, the booze can turn into a serious problem if you're not careful. The one year I had clean basically in my entire using career, I was drinking a pint of bourbon every night.. So being clean now, I am having urges to drink a lot more.. but so far I have been able to keep it under control and have only one or two a night.
 
what's too high a dose?

Hey MR. Scagnattie,

Would you mind guessing what constitutes, ballpark, too high a dose of h for the subutex really to work. I'm at a gram a day and worried subs won't do anything.

Thanks!
 
Man... I don't worry about the PWs anymore as I have MY method and timing right. I start with small doses when I enter the stage of not being able to stay awake, zero energy, claminess.

My thing is now, bupe does not get me fully right after a few days of good H. It used to work perfectly. Guess I maxed my bupe to the limit of agonizim and the dope for a few days shoots my tolerance up past that level. I stop my dope on Saturday morning and wait till Sunday morning to take bupe. No matter the amount of bupe I'm stuck in this zero energy, sweats, no motivation, depression that really renders me useless as a human being until around Monday afternoon Tuesday morning. It's truly an awful feeling espicslly being so motivated, energetic, talkative, sex to the exact opposite in intensity within 24 hours.

Maybe it's just me, but getting back on bupe after breaks is getting harder and harder.

If done right, tapering bupe, no cheating it is real that one can escape with hardly if any PHYSICAL withdrawals. I once got a "blind taper" over a period of 4-6 months and the last month was placebo but had no idea. I was perfectly fine, until I was told about the blind taper and my mind created all the little bullshit things we do to justify opiates. I was truly shocked in that I had zero WDs.

Other times I tapered to tiny crumbs took loperamide for a week after and besides lack of energy I was fine.
 
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Thanks, helpful, but I'd still like to know what people think too high a dose of h might be for subs to help with WDs. I've read many posts claiming at high dosage, subs just don't cut down the suffering, but none even suggested what such a dose might be. p.s. my average of 1g is for one year, and .5 g sporadically f(i.e. weeks off here and there) for a year before that.
thanks!
 
I would wager that bupe starts becoming less and less effective if one needs around 150(-/+) a few mg of Oxy, so whatever the conver chart is for those two give u a good idea.
 
jjacobsen said:
Hey MR. Scagnattie,

Would you mind guessing what constitutes, ballpark, too high a dose of h for the subutex really to work. I'm at a gram a day and worried subs won't do anything.

Thanks!
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Any dose of heroin that 30-50mg's of methadone will not eliminate the symptoms from, would be too high of a dose for suboxone to work because of its ceiling effect.

As far as giving you a specific dose of H.. it's hard to say because the quality always varies, etc.

Bupe is a very strong drug though.. I've seen people on much higher doses than a gram a day switch over fine. Worst case scenario, it will take 2-3 days of feeling a little crappy before the bupe starts to work 100% and get rid of all your symptoms.. but that is not a definite. You might be totally fine and it might work immediately. Everyones body is different.

The only way to know is to wait until you are in full withdrawal, and then try to induct onto the bupe. Obviously, if you can ween down before going on bupe, it will make the transition easier.

As far as habits go, a gram a day isn't massive. You should be fine.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.
 
Those are very helpful answers Mr. S, thanks! A couple clarifications, when you say weening down before bupe helps, would I have to reach a lower dose and stay there for a period of time (a few days? a week? two weeks?), or would having the dose only a day or two before bupe actually make a difference?
What you say sounds fine. I don't three days of 'feeling a little crappy'. I can handle all of the symptoms except vomiting. If the bupe stops me from vomiting, I'm the happiest addict in the world! Further info--i plan to do bupe for a week--taper every day, and get down to .5 or .25 on 7th day or so, then skip a day, take it again. I hope that sounds right. Best I could come up with after reading up here on the threads. Sleeping is a HUGE problem for me, even on h. I was prescribed Trazadone but it doesn't seem that effective on me. Anyone have one they prefer, or even better, had my problem with Trazodone and found a suitable replacement? Thanks!

I'll keep you updated!
 
About the sleep thing, once you are stabalized on bupe, you should sleep fine. As far as good sleep drug, I've had great luck with Seroquel. Trazodone never worked for me either.

In regards to the tapering, obviously the longer you can get your body used to a lower dose the better, but even if you just ween down to a lower dose over the course of a couple days, it will help big time in transitioning onto the bupe.

Your bupe taper plan sounds good to me as well.
 
^No....not trying to be a dick, but 150mgs of Oxy is nothing compared to an even moderate IV heroin habit....I was using 2-3 grams a day of heroin, which if it was 40% pure would equal out to 800-1200 mgs of dia-morphine a day....320mgs of Oxy would barely touch me during that period....not dicksizing here or minimizing a 150mg oxy habit, because that's definitely a habit, but far from being in the high range of opiate habits...

It's not that the Sub doesn't work when you have a big heroin habit, it's just a lot harder to transition onto it...you may feel shitty for 2-4 days when inducting onto the bupe...It all depends on you individually and how many times you've been on bupe, how many years you've been using, etc.

I will say that, no matter how big your heroin habit is, once you get on the Suboxone, you won't need more than 8mgs to stay well...Some people feel shitty their first few days on bupe and think they're not taking enough, but that's not the case....For me, I don't even really even need 8mg...I usually start with 8 for the first week or so that I'm stable and immediately drop down to 4mgs, occasionally taking another 2mgs as needed...

Reading about people will pill habits going on 24mgs a day of bupe makes me roll my eyes....
 
Hey so im not getting withdrawals so i can not use the cows scale to avoid precipitated withdrawal i only slipped a few days and want to get back on my subutex so how long do i need to wait to take it since the cows scale is irrelevant to me. How long after my last shot do i get back on my subutex if i dont take that as soon as possible im just going to end up getting more heroin usually crack at 12 hours so how long should i wait whats the minimum everyone says moderate withdrawal on the scale but i dont get withdrawals yet i just get agitated and restless n dont want to eat n cant chill maybe a lil hot/cold goosebumpy but thats all mental im sure...... i wanna take the sub as soon as possible to just get back regulated my last shot was at 11:15 ish pm and it's now 3:35 am. I only did a 40 bag total today. I'd like to just go to sleep now wake up and take it at 11. Its subutex not suboxone.
 
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