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Heroin Heroin Making Comeback in USA?

G

G_Chem

Moderator: OD
Staff member
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Messages
7,881
Noticed something peculiar on Drugs Data recently. 3 samples on the last two pages showing heroin WITHOUT fentanyl. Notice all samples contain 6-MAM and 6-MAC to varying degrees likely meaning one source. That said we see this in both the Midwest and West Coast so might be more prevalent than we realize. The first sample is a fake 30!

www.drugsdata.org

DrugsData.org (was EcstasyData): Test Details : Result #12207 - M30, 12207

DrugsData (EcstasyData) lab testing result
www.drugsdata.org www.drugsdata.org

www.drugsdata.org

DrugsData.org (was EcstasyData): Test Details : Result #12267 - Heroin, 12267

DrugsData (EcstasyData) lab testing result
www.drugsdata.org www.drugsdata.org

www.drugsdata.org

DrugsData.org (was EcstasyData): Test Details : Result #12235 - Heroin, 12235

DrugsData (EcstasyData) lab testing result
www.drugsdata.org www.drugsdata.org

I’ve said before (albeit long long time ago), Midwest always has the best heroin. Glad I don’t live around there anymore.

-GC
 
What do we want?!

Tar!

When do we want it?!

All the damn time!


But on the real, hell ya. I doubt this small sample size is indicative of anything significant, but I’ve got my fingers crossed for H making a comeback.
 
G_Chem said:
Noticed something peculiar on Drugs Data recently. 3 samples on the last two pages showing heroin WITHOUT fentanyl. Notice all samples contain 6-MAM and 6-MAC to varying degrees likely meaning one source. That said we see this in both the Midwest and West Coast so might be more prevalent than we realize. The first sample is a fake 30!

www.drugsdata.org

DrugsData.org (was EcstasyData): Test Details : Result #12207 - M30, 12207

DrugsData (EcstasyData) lab testing result
www.drugsdata.org www.drugsdata.org

www.drugsdata.org

DrugsData.org (was EcstasyData): Test Details : Result #12267 - Heroin, 12267

DrugsData (EcstasyData) lab testing result
www.drugsdata.org www.drugsdata.org

www.drugsdata.org

DrugsData.org (was EcstasyData): Test Details : Result #12235 - Heroin, 12235

DrugsData (EcstasyData) lab testing result
www.drugsdata.org www.drugsdata.org

I’ve said before (albeit long long time ago), Midwest always has the best heroin. Glad I don’t live around there anymore.

-GC
Click to expand...
Wow I just looked at the pics, even more surprising that it’s powered H!
 
NawdybyNature said:
Wow I just looked at the pics, even more surprising that it’s powered H!
Click to expand...

Yea Midwest has always gotten pretty much the same product as East Coast. The light brown/beige rocks and powder. I remember back in 2012 finding some research study that showed while the East Coast overall had more heroin, the Midwest had the best. (It was a bit of an extrapolation from some set of data I can’t remember.) Wish I could find that again, it’s somewhere on DrugsForum and posted a decade ago so the details allude me now.

When I lived out that way I only came across tar one time, it was when I snorted so it sucked lol. Looked like brown sugar mixed with molasses. Almost always though when I got really into it, was these off white/beige rocks that would chip in a very unique way when broken apart. Dosage matched that of the literature for pure heroin perfectly and the consistency never varied, that’s why I never once got close to overdosing.

That was coming up on 2 decades ago though..

-GC
 
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G_Chem said:
Noticed something peculiar on Drugs Data recently. 3 samples on the last two pages showing heroin WITHOUT fentanyl. Notice all samples contain 6-MAM and 6-MAC to varying degrees likely meaning one source. That said we see this in both the Midwest and West Coast so might be more prevalent than we realize. The first sample is a fake 30!
Click to expand...
I don't think heroin has disappeared from the USA completely, or is likely to in the near future. What we may see is two kind of parallel markets forming, one (larger) for fentanyl and one (smaller) for heroin.

So far, the distinction has been clearer out West – where the heroin is in tar form & the fentanyl is in pill form (except for S.F.), rather than both coming in powder form. But maybe things will head that way in the East as well.
 
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NawdybyNature said:
What do we want?!

Tar!

When do we want it?!

All the damn time!
Click to expand...
Tar heroin is still available & fentanyl-free in my neck of the woods, but its popularity is waning rapidly.

My dealer told me recently that I'm one of the few people still buying tar regularly from him. Only a couple of years ago, it was the mainstay of his business. Now, meth has become his top seller, followed by fentanyl pills, with heroin a distant 3rd & cocaine a very distant 4th.

He doesn't like these changes at all, interestingly. He makes very little profit on crystal meth, having had to cut prices several times just to stay competitive, and he never wanted to carry fentanyl, finding the drug to be too much of risk (to his freedom & to his customers' health) and the pills themselves to be too much of a hassle.

But last year, right in the midst of these changes, one of his upper-level dealers got stuck with a consignment of powder heroin and offered it to him at a discount. He called me up so excited to have this rarity, asking if I thought it looked right. Naturally, I was skeptical at first of the claim that it was fentanyl-free, but it proved to be true.

It was the real deal, incredibly enough – authentic "ECP," exactly as I remembered it from Christmas 2017, my last trip to NY before fentadope took over completely. Being so much rarer than BTH as well as >30% stronger, it could command a premium. But instead, my dealer sold it for the price of tar as a kind of "goodwill gesture" towards his customers – a very effective one, too!
 
In SoCal the last year I’ve gotten tar heroin without fent from 3 different suppliers irl and 1 dark web provider, it’s wayyyy more rare tho. Most of the dealers can only get fent now but H is def still available via the dark web. I wonder if the cartels are still growing the same amount of poppies, if so it must be getting diverted to different markets because the streets used to be flooded with high quality tar, stuff is like a unicorn now irl at least. Fuck some of the tar used to be so strong, I’ve had powdered heroin lab tested at 60% purity in the last year and it didn’t touch the potency of the tar I used to get. I don’t think the tar had fent because of the duration and quality of high, but can’t rap my brain around tar being much higher than 60% pure diacetylmorphine…but expertianlly the tar was way more potent than the 60% pure powder stuff.
 
kush said:
In SoCal the last year I’ve gotten tar heroin without fent from 3 different suppliers irl and 1 dark web provider, it’s wayyyy more rare tho. Most of the dealers can only get fent now but H is def still available via the dark web. I wonder if the cartels are still growing the same amount of poppies, if so it must be getting diverted to different markets because the streets used to be flooded with high quality tar, stuff is like a unicorn now irl at least. Fuck some of the tar used to be so strong, I’ve had powdered heroin lab tested at 60% purity in the last year and it didn’t touch the potency of the tar I used to get. I don’t think the tar had fent because of the duration and quality of high, but can’t rap my brain around tar being much higher than 60% pure diacetylmorphine…but expertianlly the tar was way more potent than the 60% pure powder stuff.
Click to expand...
You've had tar that felt stronger than 60% powder? Wow... I know tar can achieve these crazy purities of 80%+ but somehow I can't believe it... I guess I just got it stuck in my head that street-level tar was 25-35% pure (as a rough average) since that was being reported ~10 years ago.

But the number in my head has risen with new statistics (and stronger dope), so that I estimate my tar (just for personal interest) at 40% or even 45% now. The DEA reported that samples of black tar seized at the border in 2019 had an average heroin purity of 51% (compared to 83% for powder), which gave me a sense of the possible purity if it's not overly stepped-on.

Also, I'd read that good ECP averaged 60-70%, a range that seemed to match up with ~40% for tar when I adjusted for the larger quantity needed to achieve the same effect. With the stuff last fall, I used 75% the usual quantity (=1.33x stronger). Dividing that into the 60-70% range, my usual tar of 6 months ago would be 45-52% pure – a bit higher than I'd estimated.

The DEA's "price per pure gram" is usually lower for East Coast cities than for anywhere with tar. But IME (pre-fentanyl), tar is often a good value even after you account for lower purity. For example, an NY bundle (10 x~60mg) costs the same as >1.25g of tar. That means it would need 2x the purity to be a better value... realistic if tar is 35% – much less so it it's 45%.
 
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Like 3-5 years ago me and my friends couldn’t believe how strong the tar we were getting straight from the Mexicans of SoCal. 80% purity sounds about right compared to the 60% ecp I had tested recently.
 
I've been able to get real heroin in the northeast for the past 10 years. Granted it's from one woman who has had the same connects for years so she's an outlier. But I've noticed less fent from other people
 
That fucking Taliban is gonna be burning the midnight oil getting pure Heroin into the west. They know our Achilles heel and unlike the Chinese and the Fentanyl, for whom money is the primary motivation, these guys are on a religious mission to fuck us all over and they know exactly how to do it. They already have the infratsructure, transportation networks and farmers in place. I believe there is going to be so much Heroin in the West moving forward we will be shoveling our walks every morning just to get downtown.
 
the damage is already done and then some people's tolerances are messed up from fent so heroin is pretty much tylenol at this point.
 
G_Chem said:
Noticed something peculiar on Drugs Data recently. 3 samples on the last two pages showing heroin WITHOUT fentanyl. Notice all samples contain 6-MAM and 6-MAC to varying degrees likely meaning one source. That said we see this in both the Midwest and West Coast so might be more prevalent than we realize. The first sample is a fake 30!

www.drugsdata.org

DrugsData.org (was EcstasyData): Test Details : Result #12207 - M30, 12207

DrugsData (EcstasyData) lab testing result
www.drugsdata.org www.drugsdata.org

www.drugsdata.org

DrugsData.org (was EcstasyData): Test Details : Result #12267 - Heroin, 12267

DrugsData (EcstasyData) lab testing result
www.drugsdata.org www.drugsdata.org

www.drugsdata.org

DrugsData.org (was EcstasyData): Test Details : Result #12235 - Heroin, 12235

DrugsData (EcstasyData) lab testing result
www.drugsdata.org www.drugsdata.org

I’ve said before (albeit long long time ago), Midwest always has the best heroin. Glad I don’t live around there anymore.

-GC
Click to expand...
ARE YOU SAYING H WAS IN A FAKE 30? IF SO WHAT ELSE WAS IN IT BESIDES h?
 
I hope good dope makes a comeback. I've had tar a few times in Akron Ohio when I was working out of town. I don't know much about tar but the stuff I had was potent. My friend used to bring back tar when he would see his dad in Arkansas. Longer legs imo than ECP
G_Chem said:
Yea Midwest has always gotten pretty much the same product as East Coast. The light brown/beige rocks and powder. I remember back in 2012 finding some research study that showed while the East Coast overall had more heroin, the Midwest had the best. (It was a bit of an extrapolation from some set of data I can’t remember.) Wish I could find that again, it’s somewhere on DrugsForum and posted a decade ago so the details allude me now.

When I lived out that way I only came across tar one time, it was when I snorted so it sucked lol. Looked like brown sugar mixed with molasses. Almost always though when I got really into it, was these off white/beige rocks that would chip in a very unique way when broken apart. Dosage matched that of the literature for pure heroin perfectly and the consistency never varied, that’s why I never once got close to overdosing.

That was coming up on 2 decades ago though..

-GC
Click to expand...
 
JTemperance said:
You've had tar that felt stronger than 60% powder? Wow... I know tar can achieve these crazy purities of 80%+ but somehow I can't believe it... I guess I just got it stuck in my head that street-level tar was 25-35% pure (as a rough average) since that was being reported ~10 years ago.

But the number in my head has risen with new statistics (and stronger dope), so that I estimate my tar (just for personal interest) at 40% or even 45% now. The DEA reported that samples of black tar seized at the border in 2019 had an average heroin purity of 51% (compared to 83% for powder), which gave me a sense of the possible purity if it's not overly stepped-on.

Also, I'd read that good ECP averaged 60-70%, a range that seemed to match up with ~40% for tar when I adjusted for the larger quantity needed to achieve the same effect. With the stuff last fall, I used 75% the usual quantity (=1.33x stronger). Dividing that into the 60-70% range, my usual tar of 6 months ago would be 45-52% pure – a bit higher than I'd estimated.

The DEA's "price per pure gram" is usually lower for East Coast cities than for anywhere with tar. But IME (pre-fentanyl), tar is often a good value even after you account for lower purity. For example, an NY bundle (10 x~60mg) costs the same as >1.25g of tar. That means it would need 2x the purity to be a better value... realistic if tar is 35% – much less so it it's 45%.
Click to expand...

I can attest to having tar that felt stronger than 60%+ powder in MPLS in 2010-2012. I believe the tar tested at like 65% heroin, but that doesn't count all the tasty 6MAM or whatever, so it easily could've been 80- 90+% pure opioid. The normal tar back then was amazing, and the extra fire shit was unbelievable

For better or worse I lost that source long ago
 
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