Heroin/Fentanyl Withdraw Help

[dumbanddumbest]

I am new here but a longtime lurker on here and opiophile. I have been using heroin regularly for the past 20 years and been on methadone for the past 10 at 140mgs.

Everything was fine until the dope changed a year ago to mostly fentanyl and I started getting sick. About 6 months ago I tried stopping and I threw up for 4 days and kept spitting non stop ( that's a new one for me). I made it about 2 weeks until I started again.

I am looking to try to kick again but very worried I will go through that he'll again. Does methadone not do anything for fentanyl? Or is it that I've been on the same dose so long now my body is accustomed to it and the fentanyl requires additional methadone?

I have about 1000 most saved up but I am so scared that it won't work or I will need to take so much I might OD on methadone. I'm freaked out because I have a great job and got on methadone in the first place to avoid all this.

Any help or words from experience is appreciated.

Rob

 

[Bigsammy610]

You should seek medical treatment probably. A 20+ year habit is gonna be hell to kick but I know you can do it! I once met a guy that was using since the 60's and he stopped.

Do you have insurance? I would just start calling rehabs and seeing what your options are tbh...

 

[dumbanddumbest]

I'm hoping to settle back into my regular methadone treatment. My goal would be to quit using the heroin and solely stick with my regular methadone dose. The 1000mgs I have saved up is what I hope will buffer that.

 

[Delmonte421]

I would use vacation days and go into a quick 7-10 day detox where they monitor you and you get around the clock help.
I highly recommend https://mountainside.com/

 

[Delmonte421]

look, if you can handle the mental side of it, go to into a detox where they'll give u comfort meds and keep you alive and feeling OK, doing off drugs WILL NEVER FEEL GOOD, you have to accept that your going though once of the most painful things and how bad do you want it? What are you willing to do for a klondike bar?

 

[dumbanddumbest]

look, if you can handle the mental side of it, go to into a detox where they'll give u comfort meds and keep you alive and feeling OK, doing off drugs WILL NEVER FEEL GOOD, you have to accept that your going though once of the most painful things and how bad do you want it? What are you willing to do for a klondike bar?

Greatly put. I've done this too many times to think there is some magic easy way now.

Thanks for the responses

 

[Jabberwocky]

Greatly put. I've done this too many times to think there is some magic easy way now.

Thanks for the responses

It's not a magic easy way, but extremely high doses of vitamin C have been shown to severely lessen or remove withdrawal symptoms in opiate abusers.

You can look it up online. I'm not joking. It's 100% real.

By high dose I'm talking two to three grams three times a day or as much as one to two grams every hour depending on symptoms.

I'm 100% serious. Vitamin C actually lessons or removes withdrawal symptoms during opiate withdrawal.

 

[Momster]

Greatly put. I've done this too many times to think there is some magic easy way now.

Thanks for the responses

I’m not going to pretend to know what you’re going through. I’ve been lucky enough to be able to avoid Fent. But I’ve been on opioids most of 25 years and switched to PST, don’t recommend that at all. I’m going cold turkey myself right now. I get having responsibilities, I have 2 kids, a husband, an elderly mom inlaw and 3 rescue dogs. They are my responsibilities, and mean something. That’s what kept me from quitting for so long. Try to find a specialist through insurance if you have it, state of you don’t. Tell them what you’re going through and maybe there is something they can do to help. It’s scary not knowing what can be done, but they should have options for you. Good luck, I hope you do what’s right for you.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I’m not going to pretend to know what you’re going through. I’ve been lucky enough to be able to avoid Fent. But I’ve been on opioids most of 25 years and switched to PST, don’t recommend that at all. I’m going cold turkey myself right now. I get having responsibilities, I have 2 kids, a husband, an elderly mom inlaw and 3 rescue dogs. They are my responsibilities, and mean something. That’s what kept me from quitting for so long. Try to find a specialist through insurance if you have it, state of you don’t. Tell them what you’re going through and maybe there is something they can do to help. It’s scary not knowing what can be done, but they should have options for you. Good luck, I hope you do what’s right for you.

Hi dose vitamin C. 3g 3 times a day, or 1 g per hour. Liposomal formulations will keep you from having horrible diarrhea.

Clinically proven that vitamin C in high doses like I stated above lesson or abolish opiate withdrawal symptoms.

Sounds crazy but it will help you get through the withdrawal.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

BDD -> HR

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Clinically proven that vitamin C in high doses like I stated above lesson or abolish opiate withdrawal symptoms.

There was a single study done 30 years ago that vaguely suggested it helps. Not "clinically proven". I tried it myself and had no appreciable results. It probably does something but definitely not a significant relief.

 

[Jabberwocky]

There was a single study done 30 years ago that vaguely suggested it helps. Not "clinically proven". I tried it myself and had no appreciable results. It probably does something but definitely not a significant relief.

Actually, it's been more than one study including clinical studies on mice, where it has been shown to inhibit or prevent tolerance and withdrawal to opiates.

Ascorbic Acid Inhibits Development of Tolerance and Dependence to Opiates in Mice: Possible Glutamatergic or Dopaminergic Modulation

In a recent study, it has been demonstrated that ascorbic acid possessed antidopaminergic activity and modulate the glutamatergic neurotransmission in mice. With this background, the present study was undertaken to study the effect of ascorbic acid on ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

They've also been studies where vitamin C has lowered opiate use in cancer patients.

And you probably weren't taking enough vitamin C. Some studies only used 300 mg a day, others used Gram doses multiple times.

I think high doses of Vitamin C reset neurotransmitters across the board.

When I used to use ecstasy three or four times a week every week for about a year and a half. I never lost the magic. But I also took multiple Gram doses of vitamin C every day.

Another bluelighter has posted that vitamin C also prevents him from MDMA tolerance.
We have clinical studies in mice and humans that show vitamin C lowers opiate use and or inhibits tolerance and withdrawal.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

This study is interesting but it's about preventing dependence from forming not alleviating withdrawal symptoms. They also administer dopamine antagonists, the point is to suggest dopamine and NMDA play a role in addiction and can be mitigated.

I took 4g per day for 6 days before concluding it wasn't helping much for my withdrawal. It ended up being one of the worst CTs I've gone through, but don't think vit c had anything to do with it.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Here's another study from 2012 so that's only 10 years ago.

Attenuation of Heroin Withdrawal
Syndrome by the Administration of
High-Dose Vitamin C

AG Schauss.

It's a PDF so I can't give you the link, but you can search that and read it for yourself.

 

[Jabberwocky]

This study is interesting but it's about preventing dependence from forming not alleviating withdrawal symptoms. They also administer dopamine antagonists, the point is to suggest dopamine and NMDA play a role in addiction and can be mitigated.

I took 4g per day for 6 days before concluding it wasn't helping much for my withdrawal. It ended up being one of the worst CTs I've gone through, but don't think vit c had anything to do with it.

I just posted another study from 2012.

The doses that I have heard work were in one case three grams three times a day which is more than double what you took. And in another case it was a gram an hour while waking. So that would be 12 to 16 g in a day.

There is also evidence that because vitamin C agonizes adrenergic receptors, and at high enough doses those adrenergic receptors also modulate mu opioid receptors. I haven't found evidence that ascorbate or ascorbic acid, directly agonizes mu opioid receptors yet.

Like I said you didn't take enough.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

We should make a different thread about this, getting a bit off track. 16g sounds rather extreme, potentially toxic but at minimum must have some side effects. 4g gave me GI issues and acid reflux.

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

Any help or words from experience is appreciated.

As kratom is now being more widely accepted (not sure in your neck of the woods); I would suggest trying this approach if an option.
I personally find it easily tapered and helps with more than opioid replacement. There are many effects from mood enhancement, anti-anxiety and eases pains/aches. We do not know what all properties it has but it helped me in a huge way to get off opioids and yes fentanyl was also in my regimen of usage (your mileage may vary).
I didn't have to use huge amounts as I was looking for easement when already in WDs. half a gram had me up and doing yard work in the middle of a scorching summer and was more than happy to do it.
Some have serious issues with cessation of kratom but from what I read this may be caused by rather high doses. IDK. Never went above four grams and usually 2g was plenty sufficient and stayed on it for about 4 years. Stopped using it a couple times after quick tapers and never had anything more than a couple days of feeling a bit "off".
If available in your area it may be worth a try.
I will say that I stayed with one vendor that had high quality product... tried a couple other vendors and just wasnt the same so source will be crucial in this if an option.
Peace and best of luck with this.

 

[Fertile]

I used to know Robojunkie (him and SUperjunkie were making fentanyl & beta-hydroxy fentanyl until SuperJunkie got caught). Now Robojunkie wasn't really a chemist, just a trustworthy guy who would hold onto stuff and put stuff in a safe place).

However, they both wound up wearing acnulas (which they rotated every 4 days) and 20 minute habits i.e. they needed another hit of fentanyl every 20 minutes. Well Superjunkie got 15 or 16 years, no help, no comfort meds and all the kind of treatment considered to be abuse of human rights in other developed nations)

But Robojunkie wasn't at school that day but he went through his bit (ounce) of uncut heroin in about a month. Then he had to level with his family. They have money so took him to consultants and experts and he ended up on methadone, oxymorphone and (most useful of all) levorphanil (LlevoDromoran).

Levodromoran is also an NMDA antagonists. Well last time I heard from Robojunkie he was buying lots (I mean ounces) of MXE and just using that 24/7 to stop the horrors. He was open about it being by fart the best treatment, In fact, he was swapping his opioids for MXE which I do not approveof but understand.

Now he hadn't been on MXE for long, but was doing well. I didn't want to tell him that another chemist I knew was in withdrawal for a YEAR. That is why people with big fentanyl, MDPC or etonitazene habits have very high suicide rates.

So I would try MXE to see if it works for you and see if that gets you over the worst.

Their IS a drug that will stop fentanyl withdrawal - R-4066 Developed Paul A. J. Jaissan of Janssen Pharmacutica in 1964 US3125580A.
Compound 3 (the O-acetyl derivative) has a potency some x212 morphine (i.e. x400 methadone) and a T½ of 20,5 hours (methadone has a T½ of 8 hours). So to replace someone using 10 x 5mg of fentanyl (T½ of 35 minutes) a day would take about 1.6mg of R-4066. It's design and specifically duration) mean that it can be given 3 times a week i.e. Monday, Wednesday & Friday (⅓ higher dose to allow for weekend).

I KNOW methadone is cheap, but when 1mg of this replaces 424g of methadone (x212 stronger, MUCH longer duration i.e. 1L goes 424 times longer, I don't think the price is the reason. Also, if clients only have to turn up 3 times a week, it's cheaper and better for EVERYONE.

But be careful with the MXE. It seems quite safe but MAYBE it will not totally remove withdrawal without knocking you out cold and that is a riskl.

 

[dumbanddumbest]

Wanted to share an update.

I stopped using last thurseday Dec 26th. I got deathly ill vomiting starting 12 hours from last use.

My methadone clinic was only open Saturday 530 to 730 and closed Sunday and Monday and I was do sick Saturday morning I got there at 740.

So that 1000mgs I had stored just lost 140mg a day x 3. I am on 140 a day.

From that point I was vomiting every 15 minutes from Saturday until Sunday night. I couldn't hold down water and threw up every time I took a dose. I don't even know if any got observed.

This morning at the clinic the cut my dose by half for missing 3 days in a row even tho they were closed. I started crying. It's about noon and I'm feeling bad but not vomiting and haven't used.

Also, I don't have a good reason why I didn't just wait until another weekend when I would of had my regular doses so I didn't have to burn 3. I hope this is the last time. Not many times in past 20 years have I even got 6 days so hopefully this is a good start.

 

[negrogesic]

We should make a different thread about this, getting a bit off track. 16g sounds rather extreme, potentially toxic but at minimum must have some side effects. 4g gave me GI issues and acid reflux.

It's not toxic but definitely not comfortable. I tried a whopping 20g a day (administered as 4g 5x a day) and it didn't seem to do much for acute opioid withdrawal, but it definitely upset my stomach. Some animal studies use even higher doses (proportionally).

Perhaps might do something for mild to moderate opioid withdrawal, not sure, can't speak to that. Would not recommend it for severe withdrawal. Supposedly reduces the breakdown of endogenous opioid peptides, but in the case of opioid withdrawal from high doses of narcotics, those endogenous ligands probably aren't strong enough to adequately activate the mu opioid receptor in a fashion to stave off withdrawal.