Heroin: a unique, harmless substance...

[justtakethat]

I specified that I was talking about not-addicted users.

Me, I'm not actually addicted, I just started using and from the first time didn't quit anymore because I can't handle (my) life (in general) and sober I am just a pile of useless flesh and bones laying around accomplishing less than zero fucking shit...

I feel you man, life can be shitty sometimes. Maybe smoking weed will help, and you can do it daily without worrying about any dependency. Or at least the dependency won't be nearly as bad.

 

[Erikmen]

I specified that I was talking about not-addicted users.

Me, I'm not actually addicted, I just started using and from the first time didn't quit anymore because I can't handle (my) life (in general) and sober I am just a pile of useless flesh and bones laying around accomplishing less than zero fucking shit...

Denial is the first sign of addiction for most people. I've read your posts, hope you are right about yourself.

 

[burn out]

I specified that I was talking about not-addicted users.

Me, I'm not actually addicted, I just started using and from the first time didn't quit anymore because I can't handle (my) life (in general) and sober I am just a pile of useless flesh and bones laying around accomplishing less than zero fucking shit...

Do yourself a favor and steer clear of heroin. Heroin is man made crap. Allow me to let you in on a little secret. Mother Nature already anticipated that there would be people like you that can't handle their lives sober and need some drugs to cope. Guess what. She created a plethora of them, the majority of which will do you much better than heroin. Have you tried any of the following: Kratom, opium, cannabis, kava, psilocybin mushroom, coca leaf, San Pedro cactus, Amanita Muscaria to name a few?

Note: I am not saying all synthetics are bad, I am just saying in general when you take a plant (like the opium poppy in this case) and then take out the most potent active chemical and make it super pure, you end up with a far more dangerous and less balanced substance than you originally had with the plant. I used to have access to loads of heroin as well as a similar thing happened to me as somnilicious. You get to a point where there is no where to go. All you care about is your next shot and the rest of your life consists of laying around, sleeping off the sedation. You lose the motivation to experience life because normal feelings become painful in comparison to opiated numbness and as soon as opiate levels in your bloodstream fall past a certain point you are too sick to enjoy anything.

 

[Erikmen]

Do yourself a favor and steer clear of heroin. Heroin is man made crap. (...)

I am just saying in general when you take a plant (like the opium poppy in this case) and then take out the most potent active chemical and make it super pure, you end up with a far more dangerous and less balanced substance than you originally had with the plant. I used to have access to loads of heroin as well as a similar thing happened to me as somnilicious. You get to a point where there is no where to go. All you care about is your next shot and the rest of your life consists of laying around, sleeping off the sedation. You lose the motivation to experience life because normal feelings become painful in comparison to opiated numbness and as soon as opiate levels in your bloodstream fall past a certain point you are too sick to enjoy anything.

Exactly! There's no way around it.

 

[Captainsafety]

I dont think anything that kills people should be refered to as safe. It may kill you slowly but dead is dead. I wonder what percent of heroin users don't get addicted. I do think if it were legally controlled and allowed then at least thats better than cutting with fent. And filling up prisons with people who are sick.

 

[justtakethat]

I dont think anything that kills people should be refered to as safe. It may kill you slowly but dead is dead. I wonder what percent of heroin users don't get addicted. I do think if it were legally controlled and allowed then at least thats better than cutting with fent. And filling up prisons with people who are sick.

Almost anything can kill you.

 

[Erikmen]

^ But with Heroin you can avoid it. A Russian Roulette can kill you, it does mean you'll do this as everything can kill you. I don't think it's a fair comparison to things in general than can kill you imho. People don't normally choose things with a great potential to kill, that's all I am saying.

 

[JessFR]

Do yourself a favor and steer clear of heroin. Heroin is man made crap. Allow me to let you in on a little secret. Mother Nature already anticipated that there would be people like you that can't handle their lives sober and need some drugs to cope. Guess what. She created a plethora of them, the majority of which will do you much better than heroin. Have you tried any of the following: Kratom, opium, cannabis, kava, psilocybin mushroom, coca leaf, San Pedro cactus, Amanita Muscaria to name a few?

Note: I am not saying all synthetics are bad, I am just saying in general when you take a plant (like the opium poppy in this case) and then take out the most potent active chemical and make it super pure, you end up with a far more dangerous and less balanced substance than you originally had with the plant. I used to have access to loads of heroin as well as a similar thing happened to me as somnilicious. You get to a point where there is no where to go. All you care about is your next shot and the rest of your life consists of laying around, sleeping off the sedation. You lose the motivation to experience life because normal feelings become painful in comparison to opiated numbness and as soon as opiate levels in your bloodstream fall past a certain point you are too sick to enjoy anything.

I'm sorry but this is total crap. How exactly is opium less dangerous than say, morphine addiction, and how is morphine addiction less dangerous than heroin addiction. The only argument that might hold any validity at all is that with the plant matter you can't end up using the needle. But this whole Mother Nature thing is bullshit. I wouldn't care, but it's dangerous advice.

Being man made doesn't equal bad, antibiotics are man made and have saved countless lives.
And being natural CERTAINLY doesn't equal good. Ricin, smallpox, anthrax, Botox, cyanide, these are all natural things too. And they certainly aren't good.

Pharmacologically, which is to say, in the way that actually matters, heroin IS safe. It's not a toxic drug and it is as safe as drugs can be. To say otherwise is to use such a broad definition as to render the word "deadly" or "toxic" meaningless.

That said, heroin most certainly IS bad, and heroin addiction can, and does, kill people. The drug may not be inherently deadly, but neither is water, but too much water can kill you by disrupting your electrolyte levels. Many otherwise nonlethal things can kill you if misused, but the nature of heroin leads itself to being misused far more than most. So it may not be harmful inherently in the chemical sense, but it most certainly leads to great harm in a less direct way.

Personally what I think this shows is that simply categorizing things as lethal or dangerous or safe. Toxic or not toxic. Is so simplistic as to be wildly misleading. Much better to actually learn the full story so you can get the whole picture, and forget about all the simplistic labels.

 

[Erikmen]

Addiction with any type of opiates are tough, complicated and difficult. But heroin is indeed more dangerous because of the number of related deaths. It's more cut and unclean than Morphine. Easier to OD with the same dose you taken for months. The "context" surrounding heroin (so to speak) is de facto more dangerous.

It would have been simplistic if we were only talking about each drug's problems, witouth considering everything else around its use. Fentanyl is most used in Heroin. Good heroin may kill you while pure Morphine may not. You can't really know how much your actual heroin intake is in comparison with similar opiates, this is just one example. One needs to consider what's around each of these drugs routines, statistics, scenes, etc, etc.

 

[JessFR]

Addiction with any type of opiates are tough, complicated and difficult. But heroin is indeed more dangerous because of the number of related deaths. It's more cut and unclean than Morphine. Easier to OD with the same dose you taken for months. The "context" surrounding heroin (so to speak) is de facto more dangerous.

It would have been simplistic if we were only talking about each drug's problems, witouth considering everything else around its use. Fentanyl is most used in Heroin. Good heroin may kill you while pure Morphine may not. You can't really know how much your actual heroin intake is in comparison with similar opiates, this is just one example. One needs to consider what's around each of these drugs routines, statistics, scenes, etc, etc.

These are all valid points, hell they're probably all correct points. But its just asking for confusion to muddy the definition of heroin with things like this. Heroin is the substance, Not the context.

Also, heroin is not commonly cut with fentanyl everywhere in the world. Here in Australia it's thankfully pretty rare. As is such wide variation in purity. In the uk you can get legal heroin substitution, where almost none of what you said applies. So the context can vary from place to place.

Because of this, for the purposes of discussion it's perfectly valid to talk about heroins dangers from a purely chemical perspective. That said, it's still a difficult question because it involves addiction, where straddles the line between physiological and psychological.

 

[Erikmen]

Indeed, considering all of these different points of view I must say it is of course also valid to discuss the drug instead of the context. I am very used to talk, connect and try to get diffrerent people to look into the harm reduction possibilities from heroin and given my experience, even in Europe, I must say that from my own and unique perspective Methadone could be much worse.

It was my case. I almost died due to an OD from Methadone. Despite of the fact I knew all I needed to know about it was the pill that got me in coma no H. But the ugly truth is that possibility the US is going through a long epidemy of opiates and it's often heroin that shows the digitals, so to speak. Most deaths are related to heroin. But that is different in Amsterdam you can purchase your own heroin kit and only do what you know you can. So once again a different reality.

Thanks for sharing such a n insightful opinion. I do agree we must discuss how to prevent relapses and the strategies to cope with cravings and difficulties. That's how actually I am trying living nowadays. After quitting hard core opiates, incl. H I used Methadone for almost 8 years and it took me a long and tortuous time to come off of it. That was a long time ago, but it's still harsh sometimes although I must say the worst is probably over.

Take care!

Erik

 

[justtakethat]

Indeed, considering all of these different points of view I must say it is of course also valid to discuss the drug instead of the context. I am very used to talk, connect and try to get diffrerent people to look into the harm reduction possibilities from heroin and given my experience, even in Europe, I must say that from my own and unique perspective Methadone could be much worse.

It was my case. I almost died due to an OD from Methadone. Despite of the fact I knew all I needed to know about it was the pill that got me in coma no H. But the ugly truth is that possibility the US is going through a long epidemy of opiates and it's often heroin that shows the digitals, so to speak. Most deaths are related to heroin. But that is different in Amsterdam you can purchase your own heroin kit and only do what you know you can. So once again a different reality.

Thanks for sharing such a n insightful opinion. I do agree we must discuss how to prevent relapses and the strategies to cope with cravings and difficulties. That's how actually I am trying living nowadays. After quitting hard core opiates, incl. H I used Methadone for almost 8 years and it took me a long and tortuous time to come off of it. That was a long time ago, but it's still harsh sometimes although I must say the worst is probably over.

Take care!

Erik

How could you "almost" OD from methadone while knowing all there is to know about it.

 

[Erikmen]

I was going through a tough time in my life, had recently gone through a major orthopedic surgery and I remember having had different prescriptions for different medications for severe pain. I must have mixed medications. I had probably underestimated the strength of methadone as it blocks the 'high' of other opiates. This happened a long time ago, and to most people I knew - none of them were aware I had problems with opiates. So it was a terrible thing afterall.

 

[Captainsafety]

Everything can kill you true. But we should be reasonable. Heroin probably will eventually while weed will probably not. Everything is relative and nothing is constant. To say that heroin is safe because coffee isnt considered deadly is dangerous. Sure caffein is not great for your body. Heroin is a plague on society. Maybe not a popular answer on a drug board about heroin but look at the numbers. 50,000 us deaths 2 yrs ago and its increasing quickly. Those are documented. There are many more. So no heroin is not safe. Its a dangerous addictive drug. And most likely cut with cheaper more dangerous drugs. Not as big of a plague as meth. But deciding to try it is not a recomendation i can morally give. Addicts will defend their reasoning. If your going to try it then be prepared for the worst. Dont go in optimistic that this is a good idea.

 

[JessFR]

I don't think you'll find many heroin addicts who'll say trying heroin is a good idea, I wouldn't. But objectivity goes both ways. Pharmacologically pure heroin isn't innately very destructive, and the dangers stemming from its prohibition vary from place to place.

Simply calling it deadly and bad is no more objective than calling it harmless. And I'd say most people here have been fairly objective about the dangers. And I haven't seen anyone say trying it is a good idea.

Even if you had constant access to pure heroin, unless it's free, the addictiveness alone can still cause substantial destruction in people's lives.

 

[shartito]

I don't think you'll find many heroin addicts who'll say trying heroin is a good idea, I wouldn't. But objectivity goes both ways. Pharmacologically pure heroin isn't innately very destructive, and the dangers stemming from its prohibition vary from place to place.

Simply calling it deadly and bad is no more objective than calling it harmless. And I'd say most people here have been fairly objective about the dangers. And I haven't seen anyone say trying it is a good idea.

Even if you had constant access to pure heroin, unless it's free, the addictiveness alone can still cause substantial destruction in people's lives.

Well said. I agree 100%

 

[Erikmen]

Everything can kill you true. But we should be reasonable. Heroin probably will eventually while weed will probably not. Everything is relative and nothing is constant. To say that heroin is safe because coffee isnt considered deadly is dangerous. Sure caffein is not great for your body. Heroin is a plague on society. Maybe not a popular answer on a drug board about heroin but look at the numbers. 50,000 us deaths 2 yrs ago and its increasing quickly. Those are documented. There are many more. So no heroin is not safe. Its a dangerous addictive drug. And most likely cut with cheaper more dangerous drugs. Not as big of a plague as meth. But deciding to try it is not a recomendation i can morally give. Addicts will defend their reasoning. If your going to try it then be prepared for the worst. Dont go in optimistic that this is a good idea.

True, you'll never win an argument with someone who believes his or her use is not detrimental to their lives, health. I have been in this very same place where I would be certain that I could have an entire life with drugs working my way up. After all I was a 'working' addict for decades. Had always been discreet and kept things under control, until I didn't! Then it was all messed up, but still defended the idea it could work. But when things start to go down you soon reach your rock bottom and it's a slow path to the place you want to be.

 

[Captainsafety]

I think its dangerous and any healthcare professional would agree. Feel how you want. If you tell someone its safe then they may try. If you have a reason to think its not- and i have some- then you shouldn't encourage it. I don't want to be even partially involved in the death or degredation of another person. I dont think its the most dangerous thing in the world but neither is noodling(fishing big catfish with your hands and feet). That kills alot of people too. I think its a dangerous hobby. Dumb. But some people get alot of happiness from it. I don't know anyone who heroin has made a happier person but by god if it does then do your thing. The only good use for heroin i can see would be pain management. At some point quality of life outweighs the risk of death. Its all about risk vs reward. And the long term risk typically outweighs any long term reward with this drug. I'll leave ya'll alone. Have a good day and be safe. You're all more important than you know.

 

[curiousperson90]

To JessFR:
No idea who you are, or where you are in the world. Just came across one of your posts and it feels like you're in deep with opiates. I don't know if that's still the case, but if you ever need someone to talk to- especially a random stranger on the internet- I'm here. Sorry- not really sure why I'm even messaging you. You just kinda stood out to me and I wanted to let you know there's someone here who will listen to what you have to say. I'm a young student who is slowly realising she has a dependency on cocaine, in case you wanted to know. Anyway. Here if you ever want a chat. X

 

[curiousperson90]

Sorry - tried to DM but it seems yr inbox is full.