herbal carboxylase inhibitor?

[dopamimetic]

My intent is to turn 5-htp into an effective(r) serotonergic, like they do with levodopa by combining it with a peripheral carboxylase inhibitor to avoid the majority of it to get converted into serotonin in the stomach where it does just side effects. Asked a bunch of pharmacies but (of course) they apparently aren't either able or willing to source something like pure carbidopa or benzaseride even with prescription.

Google found nothing really, results of "herbal carboxylase inhibitor" etc are about acetyl-coenzyme A carboxylase which plays a role in metabolic syndrome, might be coincidence but sounds like it's not the one I want to target.

Anything known about some plant that is effective? And what would the effects/side effects be like, I guess an overdose would lead to serotonin syndrom and/or be psychedelomimetic?

 

[sekio]

I don't think such a thing exists, unfortunately.

The enzyme in question would be the aromatic L-amino acid decarbozylase aka DOPA decarboxylase.

I don't expect a very pleasant reaction at all. Sounds to me like a way to risk serotonin syndrome.

 

[dopamimetic]

I don't intend to go beyond the "therapeutic" dosage window, whatever that would be. I wrote kind of misleading in this regard, the purposed use is not (ok, not really) to explore high doses but to replace xenobiotic antidepressants, specifically venlafaxine on which I am hooked for over 10 years now, guess I started it way too young and developed semi-permanent disbalance.. In a way the discontinuation is worse or at least comparable to morphine.

Got robust benefits from 5-HTP alone, but only in times of depleted serotonin storage (acute SSRI withdrawal which I tend to get intense and lasting) and comes with gastric disturbance that is too strong to continue taking it. Remember that in early days I got a natural griffonia extract with purposedly 50mg 5-htp in it and taking this together with the venlafaxine lead to an improved mood without problems, so maybe I had poor quality of 5-htp though it was more than one brand causing the same problems..

Hmm. Is there a way to separate carbidopa from levodopa? Or could I take just a fraction of a tablet and still get benefits maybe together with some dopamine on top? There are next to no experience reports about levodopa and the side effects, in individuals with underlying disease of course, sounded terrible enough for me to avoid the experiment but somehow it doesn't make sense, in the end it's the same dopamine as always...

 

[sekio]

I don't intend to go beyond the "therapeutic" dosage window, whatever that would be.

The mere fact that nobody's reported this combination being useful for anything suggests to me it's not gonna be worth it. I'm predicting nasty GI effects.

Straight up selective serotonin releasers didn't exactly replace MDMA. And vVenlafaxine acts as a SNRI does it not? Norepinephrine needs love too, it's not like it plays no role at all.

 

[dopamimetic]

Mmh I was extrapolating from why they use carbidopa & co, thought that eating dopamine/peripheral DA agonism will make you puke but am not exactly sure about. Isn't it the converted serotonin which causes GI effects, which would be avoidable by inhibiting that enzyme? Or is it plain 5-htp?

I remember one web page mentioning this combination, in theory though what made me think it might be lack of availability and patentability, risk of overdose which makes nobody try/sell it..

Yeah, right about the NE and possibility that I am underestimating it. Just that I feel like it's the only transmitter of which I got plenty by nature. It's required for drive, attention etc of course but little too much is horrible. Yeah, bupropion + DXM felt like flying but a restless, impulsive, jittery flight too. DXM alone above like 450mg induces heavy panic attacks, the same for similar doses of quetiapine which metabolizes to a NEI compound. Bupropion alone was weirdly wired and strongly potentiated coffee while feeling unsatisfying and toxic. Reboxetine was very stressful, venlafaxine above 150mg too not to mention opioid withdrawal. Yeah too, clonidine induces tiredness which is pretty limiting given the half life but is of heavy relief for these exact symptoms I associate with (too much of) NE.

The withdrawal of venlafaxine feels to me like mild-medium opioid and heavy serotonin symptoms. There's that paper suggesting involvement of opioid system in venla and mirta too

 

[dopamimetic]

5-HTP is rapidly absorbed with Tmax of ~1.5h, and rapidly eliminated with a half-life of ~1.5-2h. Co-administration of a decarboxylase inhibitor (e.g. carbidopa, benserazide) doubles the half-life of 5-HTP, to 3-4h,[37][16] and enhances exposure several fold, depending on the dosing regimen.[16][38]

Sounds not too bad.

Research shows that co-administration with carbidopa greatly increases plasma 5-HTP levels.[45] Other studies have indicated the risk of a scleroderma-like condition resulting from the combination of 5-HTP and carbidopa.[46]

This does tho.

Extended release appears to be the way to go. If just somebody would actually manufacture that.