Help my gf, what happened?

[helpmygf]

Supposed to be Checkpoint Tesla, 280 mg per.

Tested by the Ecstasy Data folks and it is MDMA, no other substances found.

Background: We are older, late 40's, been together 10 years. She is 5'2" 130, I am 6'3" 200. I've rolled 20 or so times since the early 90's (lsd was my thing back then). She has done MDA twice with me and MDMA a couple more times but at the 80 mg level, other than these Tesla pills. Edit: She takes no prescriptions or has any health conditions we are aware of. We have come to enjoy rolling together as a sort of couples therapy: It has immeasurably helped us talk out our problems with each other.

Episode 1: We are at a festival, it is a bit humid and each do one Tesla. We are off by ourselves and she is laying down with her head in my cross-legged lap, talking to me. And she dies. I panic, slap her face a few times to get her to come back, and thankfully she does. This happens over and over again for the next two hours. Sometimes I am pouring water onto her mouth and face, sometimes I have to slap her. But she ends up surviving.

What do I mean that she dies? She loses consciousness with her eyes wide open.

Please understand: She loses consciousness with her eyes wide open.

Read that one more time: She loses consciousness with her eyes wide open.

Sometimes it happens with a fit, like a seizure: She looks off to a side nodding her head in a fit and then dies. Sometimes not, she just dies: Her face frozen with almost a smile on her face. She told me later that she liked it because it was the feeling of no more worries, ever.

She later said she had not eaten that day so when we reflected on it, thought that it was a combination of the humid night, no food and we agreed to cut her dose to half the next time.

We did it maybe three more times after that.

Episode 2: We are home on a night before a very rare time when neither has to be up in the morning and she wants to roll. I take a whole, she takes a half, then I shower. By the time I get out, it is clear she is under the influence and I am not. She later admitted that she had not eaten all day.

It happens again. She dies over and over and over. Sometimes with the seizure looking thing and sometimes just straight away. Sometimes, she talks looking at me and I respond and then I realize, she has not changed her stare for any moment of my monologue and thus she has died again. Slap her face, cry her name, at some point she comes back.

We survived the second time, thankfully.

But I don't know what happened. What was she dying of? She was not too hot or too cold either time. This is not the normal ecstasy dying story that I've read about since researching so wtf happened. It makes no sense according to any of the MDMA literature/history that I've been able to read so far.

So I've joined your community in hope somewhere out there, someone, can help illuminate.

 

[indigoaura]

I have a few questions for you...

#1. Did you send YOUR pills to Ecstasy Data, or did you just see similar pills posted on Ecstasy Data that you assume are the same? I ask this because there are copy cat presses all the time. Just because one Tesla is MDMA, that does not mean another one is.

#2. Does your wife take any prescriptions of any kind? If she is taking something that inhibits the CYP2D6 enzyme, then she may be basically overdosing. I was unfortunate to see this happen once to a friend. My friend was taking Celebrex for a knee injury, and had no idea it was a contraindication. She had a similar effect to what you are describing, but then actually had a grand maul seizure and turned blue. She went to the emergency room and fortunately lived. It was not until later that we discovered that Celebrex utilizes the CYP2D6 enzyme.

Link: https://dancesafe.org/drug-information/mdma-contraindications/

 

[lionheart90]

She just dissociated. Dissociation is a defense mechanism that separates the mind from the body during extreme situations. Sometimes its a traumatic situation but it can happen with extreme pleasure situations too.

Sounds to me like she just took a very high dose and it overloaded her mind and body. Sounds like she hit the perfect dose, not too high than she had a bad trip, but just high enough to get blasted into outer space.

you slapping her in the face was probably a buzzkill. if she wasnt high as a kite on mdma she probably would have been pissed haha.

so yeah man, it was just dissociation, not death. Her mind was perfectly fine and having an awesome time, just not inside her body. Ask her what she saw and felt, what happened. Most people either hover above their body or are surrounded by white blissful light.

anyways, dissociation isn't a good thing but it's not as bad as death. Just tell her to take much less next time, like 120 tops for a little tiny girl like that. 200 is a big hit for you dude and you are like twice her mass. She def. took wayyyyyy too much and it overloaded her system. Tell her to take a break and let her body forget the dissociation. There is a risk that if she doses again her body will seek to dissociate (because dissociation is pleasurable, although a negative experience because we dont want our body to turn dissociation into a habit (called a dissociation disorder)) so she should def. take a break.

 

[helpmygf]

I have a few questions for you...

#1. Did you send YOUR pills to Ecstasy Data, or did you just see similar pills posted on Ecstasy Data that you assume are the same? I ask this because there are copy cat presses all the time. Just because one Tesla is MDMA, that does not mean another one is.

#2. Does your wife take any prescriptions of any kind? If she is taking something that inhibits the CYP2D6 enzyme, then she may be basically overdosing. I was unfortunate to see this happen once to a friend. My friend was taking Celebrex for a knee injury, and had no idea it was a contraindication. She had a similar effect to what you are describing, but then actually had a grand maul seizure and turned blue. She went to the emergency room and fortunately lived. It was not until later that we discovered that Celebrex utilizes the CYP2D6 enzyme.

Link: https://dancesafe.org/drug-information/mdma-contraindications/

1) Yes, sent the actual other half to ED.

2) No, meant to mention that she takes no prescriptions and no health problems that we are aware of though neither of us ever go to a doctor unless something happens like a broken bone. I'm concerned that she might have some underlying condition but she won't go to the doctor and tell them what happened.

I had read through that contraindication list before. She didn't have what I would call a normal seizure but then again maybe I just haven't seen enough of them to know. It would just be the head and limited to a brief nodding. The first time, I was going to call a festival medic but she insisted that I not, out of fear she would end up losing her job. The second time, I was scared to leave her for even a second and I did not have my phone on me.

 

[helpmygf]

She just dissociated. Dissociation is a defense mechanism that separates the mind from the body during extreme situations. Sometimes its a traumatic situation but it can happen with extreme pleasure situations too.

Sounds to me like she just took a very high dose and it overloaded her mind and body. Sounds like she hit the perfect dose, not too high than she had a bad trip, but just high enough to get blasted into outer space.

you slapping her in the face was probably a buzzkill. if she wasnt high as a kite on mdma she probably would have been pissed haha.

so yeah man, it was just dissociation, not death. Her mind was perfectly fine and having an awesome time, just not inside her body. Ask her what she saw and felt, what happened. Most people either hover above their body or are surrounded by white blissful light.

anyways, dissociation isn't a good thing but it's not as bad as death. Just tell her to take much less next time, like 120 tops for a little tiny girl like that. 200 is a big hit for you dude and you are like twice her mass. She def. took wayyyyyy too much and it overloaded her system. Tell her to take a break and let her body forget the dissociation. There is a risk that if she doses again her body will seek to dissociate (because dissociation is pleasurable, although a negative experience because we dont want our body to turn dissociation into a habit (called a dissociation disorder)) so she should def. take a break.

Interesting, I will ask her when I see her next week. She said it was not unpleasant and she just saw black, like she had gone to nowhere but it was scary as hell for me to watch. Can you do that with your eyes totally open and does the face became totally lifeless? I tried to find her pulse and heartbeat when she was "with me" but couldn't though that does not mean anything, I'm not sure I can find my own sitting here.

And yes, definitely understand now that was too high of a dose. The first time she did MDA, we were at a festival and someone gave it to us so have no idea what dose that was. The second MDA was 80mg and if I recall correctly the subsequent MDMA rolls from the same supplier was about 80mg. The Teslas were from a different supplier and a half of one of those Teslas is 50% more than that so that I gave her a whole one the first time, that was really really stupid. That she hadn't eaten either time, even worse.

 

[ZeroLuck]

My comment may be the criticizing one, but can't help to ask...

Why you didn't call an ambulance for 2 hours, and how the hell could you do it again after this?

If this happens to my half I'll have PTSD or something...

 

[helpmygf]

My comment may be the criticizing one, but can't help to ask...

Why you didn't call an ambulance for 2 hours, and how the hell could you do it again after this?

If this happens to my half I'll have PTSD or something...

Criticism well deserved, I don't mind. I've been hyper-critical of myself over this.

Definitively she is never doing it again. And yes, it is PTSD like. The first time, we just thought it was dehydration and the humidity. The second time was about a month ago. For the first couple of days after, all I could see was her dead face everywhere. About a week later, I was finally able to think about other things. But every day, I think about it. I'm mostly worried that she may have some unknown medical condition because I have not been able to square what was happening to her with any MDMA literature I have been able to find. The second time, she was not dehydrated or over-hydrated. We were in a controlled setting in the bedroom, laying there talking. She was not hot or cold. She had not eaten that day, stupidly, and I did not know that. Obviously she overdosed but if she was in fact dying (and not merely disassociating as mentioned above), what was she dying of?

As I said above, "The first time, I was going to call for a festival medic but she insisted that I not, out of fear she would end up losing her job. The second time, I was scared to leave her for even a second and I did not have my phone on me."


But she wouldn't have let me call an ambulance if I did have my phone on me.

 

[Andon]

Not much to add but:
- if those are indeed 280 mg (sounds logical based on your post...) then those are exactly the kind that most festivals put warning posters around the grounds to warn people. It's the kind where teenagers literally drop dead at festivals when they stupidly take two. But like you said, you understand now how bad it was for her to take whole pill.
- your gf is about 60 kilos so her dose is too high even at that "half of a crazy pill" dose, in this case 140 mg. Though I guess it needs to be said that 140mg shouldn't be such an overdose to warrant that response. So your gf is clearly not very compatible with the drug, and not taking it again is probably a good idea, even if it's really unfortunate if it's because you kinda overdosed her.
- your gf really needs to eat proper food every day I mean god damn...
- based on everything mentioned, your gf might also need some therapy or "alternative healing methods"...but you guys need to make really informed decisions about all that, with proper advice from proper people and not just random stuff since she may be a bit fragile in some ways

 

[indigoaura]

There are some people out there who have genetic variations related to CYP2D6. These individuals may be more sensitive to medications processed by the enzyme.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/cyp2d6

There are a lot of other genetic variations that impact how MAOIs function, how serotonin functions etc. Google the "warrior gene" to get an idea.

Your girlfriend could have any number of genetic variations that make her more susceptible to MDMA. In any case, what is happening to her does not sound normal, and does not seem safe to play around with.

I have only seen what you are describing a few times. There were a few super skinny girls in our social circle who would "check out" while rolling, shake, etc.

Once, I had an experience where I would pop into lucid dream like states and lose all awareness of my surroundings for brief periods. Then, I would come to in a totally different part of the house. The pills I took looked like MDMA with reagent tests, but were clearly adulterated with something else.

Also, even though the pill looked like MDMA to ecstasy data, it is possible there were adulterants they did not test for or that the MDMA itself was not quite as it should be.

 

[G_Chem]

This sounds like a fairly predictable reaction for a woman with little tolerance to taking such a large dose with no food during that day.

MDMA can take you places, I'm surprised the MDA didn't do that to her even at the 80mg dose as it's often more prone to those type of reactions.

The seizure type things sound unsettling though.. What did you mean by that? Losing consciousness while wide eyed isn't concerning but seizures obviously are.

-GC

 

[helpmygf]

Not much to add but:
- if those are indeed 280 mg (sounds logical based on your post...) then those are exactly the kind that most festivals put warning posters around the grounds to warn people. It's the kind where teenagers literally drop dead at festivals when they stupidly take two. But like you said, you understand now how bad it was for her to take whole pill.
- your gf is about 60 kilos so her dose is too high even at that "half of a crazy pill" dose, in this case 140 mg. Though I guess it needs to be said that 140mg shouldn't be such an overdose to warrant that response. So your gf is clearly not very compatible with the drug, and not taking it again is probably a good idea, even if it's really unfortunate if it's because you kinda overdosed her.
- your gf really needs to eat proper food every day I mean god damn...
- based on everything mentioned, your gf might also need some therapy or "alternative healing methods"...but you guys need to make really informed decisions about all that, with proper advice from proper people and not just random stuff since she may be a bit fragile in some ways

Agree, even under "normal" circumstances, 1/2 was too much. To be honest, I've never been one to think about dosage. People I trusted would hand me things, I'd consume them, have a great time. Now I just can't believe it didn't occur to me to monitor her intake and that we were so flippant after the first time . . . . .

Normally she eats. Just gets busy sometimes and forgets.

There are some people out there who have genetic variations related to CYP2D6. These individuals may be more sensitive to medications processed by the enzyme.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/cyp2d6

There are a lot of other genetic variations that impact how MAOIs function, how serotonin functions etc. Google the "warrior gene" to get an idea.

Your girlfriend could have any number of genetic variations that make her more susceptible to MDMA. In any case, what is happening to her does not sound normal, and does not seem safe to play around with.

I have only seen what you are describing a few times. There were a few super skinny girls in our social circle who would "check out" while rolling, shake, etc.

Once, I had an experience where I would pop into lucid dream like states and lose all awareness of my surroundings for brief periods. Then, I would come to in a totally different part of the house. The pills I took looked like MDMA with reagent tests, but were clearly adulterated with something else.

Also, even though the pill looked like MDMA to ecstasy data, it is possible there were adulterants they did not test for or that the MDMA itself was not quite as it should be.

Unfortunately, I don't have any more to test except for maybe a couple crumbs.

This sounds like a fairly predictable reaction for a woman with little tolerance to taking such a large dose with no food during that day.

MDMA can take you places, I'm surprised the MDA didn't do that to her even at the 80mg dose as it's often more prone to those type of reactions.

The seizure type things sound unsettling though.. What did you mean by that? Losing consciousness while wide eyed isn't concerning but seizures obviously are.

-GC

I've seen a couple seizures. It was not a full body one and it didn't happen every time. She was just kind of stare off into space and nod her back and forth a couple of times and then go out. So probably seizure is not the correct word.

 

[lionheart90]

Interesting, I will ask her when I see her next week. She said it was not unpleasant and she just saw black, like she had gone to nowhere but it was scary as hell for me to watch. Can you do that with your eyes totally open and does the face became totally lifeless? I tried to find her pulse and heartbeat when she was "with me" but couldn't though that does not mean anything, I'm not sure I can find my own sitting here.

And yes, definitely understand now that was too high of a dose. The first time she did MDA, we were at a festival and someone gave it to us so have no idea what dose that was. The second MDA was 80mg and if I recall correctly the subsequent MDMA rolls from the same supplier was about 80mg. The Teslas were from a different supplier and a half of one of those Teslas is 50% more than that so that I gave her a whole one the first time, that was really really stupid. That she hadn't eaten either time, even worse.

yeah that is textbook dissociation. It can be black or white, and its often described with words like heaven, void, bliss, outer space, nothingness, vast empty space, etc.

its actually much more common to do it with the eyes open, but yeah it can happen with the eyes closed too. And yeah the face becomes very expressionless because the consciousness isn't centered in the body anymore, it's gone somewhere else, somewhere inside the mind.

uhh idk man, idk how good you are at taking pulses. maybe you just couldn't find it. maybe you were worried so much that your erratic heartbeat stopped you from feeling her very low pulse. could be a lot of things but I highly doubt her heart stopped.

The dose was high but it'll be fine, the body can bounce back if it's given what it needs to recover. that means abstain from drugs, get plenty of rest, sleep, exercise, eat well, etc. Just general health habits and a good routine does wonders. def. dont do mdma or mda or any type of heavy drug (no coke, no meth, etc) for at least a few months.

 

[lionheart90]

Criticism well deserved, I don't mind. I've been hyper-critical of myself over this.

Definitively she is never doing it again. And yes, it is PTSD like. The first time, we just thought it was dehydration and the humidity. The second time was about a month ago. For the first couple of days after, all I could see was her dead face everywhere. About a week later, I was finally able to think about other things. But every day, I think about it. I'm mostly worried that she may have some unknown medical condition because I have not been able to square what was happening to her with any MDMA literature I have been able to find. The second time, she was not dehydrated or over-hydrated. We were in a controlled setting in the bedroom, laying there talking. She was not hot or cold. She had not eaten that day, stupidly, and I did not know that. Obviously she overdosed but if she was in fact dying (and not merely disassociating as mentioned above), what was she dying of?

As I said above, "The first time, I was going to call for a festival medic but she insisted that I not, out of fear she would end up losing her job. The second time, I was scared to leave her for even a second and I did not have my phone on me."


But she wouldn't have let me call an ambulance if I did have my phone on me.

her "dead face" is just due to chemical imbalances because of MDMA though man. The brain isn't meant to handle the levels of chemicals that a high dose of MDMA releases so a lot of un-natural things happen, one of those is dissociation, another is anxiety.

anyways just let the whole thing go. your fears over her having some kind of permanent issue now or long term issue are not grounded in solid reality. Shes not going to have permanent issues from doing a high dose of mdma once. there is a low chance of complications but that is usually with people who have been trying MDMA for a while and doing a lot of drugs in general. From what you said your girlfriend doesnt do many drugs at all, and this was her second time doing mdma and it was well spaced out. so yeah man shes good, one high dose just rocks a person for a few days, a week or so tops.

When you talk to her next (call her) ask her how she is feeling and then let us know. If she is generally feeling better then we'll know shes not going to have any long term complications.

 

[lionheart90]

Not much to add but:
- if those are indeed 280 mg (sounds logical based on your post...) then those are exactly the kind that most festivals put warning posters around the grounds to warn people. It's the kind where teenagers literally drop dead at festivals when they stupidly take two. But like you said, you understand now how bad it was for her to take whole pill.
- your gf is about 60 kilos so her dose is too high even at that "half of a crazy pill" dose, in this case 140 mg. Though I guess it needs to be said that 140mg shouldn't be such an overdose to warrant that response. So your gf is clearly not very compatible with the drug, and not taking it again is probably a good idea, even if it's really unfortunate if it's because you kinda overdosed her.
- your gf really needs to eat proper food every day I mean god damn...
- based on everything mentioned, your gf might also need some therapy or "alternative healing methods"...but you guys need to make really informed decisions about all that, with proper advice from proper people and not just random stuff since she may be a bit fragile in some ways

dude he asked for help about the mdma reaction, he didnt ask for your fucking opinion on his girlfriends mental health. you're not some therapist dude so dont go dispensing shit advice like that.

 

[Thomas29]

This seems VERY complicated maybe there is an understanding Dr. Or knowledgable person in these matters u can ask. If not the bottom line is that we will need AS MUCH RELEVANT INFORMATION that u can POSSIBLY THINK OF being related Or even remotely possibly related And for Example List any Herbal Supplements she is taking etc.


But this seems Like A problem that has to do with Her unique body chemistry but I Am by far not at all an expert about all of this.

 

[lionheart90]

This seems VERY complicated maybe there is an understanding Dr. Or knowledgable person in these matters u can ask. If not the bottom line is that we will need AS MUCH RELEVANT INFORMATION that u can POSSIBLY THINK OF being related Or even remotely possibly related And for Example List any Herbal Supplements she is taking etc.


But this seems Like A problem that has to do with Her unique body chemistry but I Am by far not at all an expert about all of this.

seems complicated to you. Some of us are more experienced with dissociation than most doctors. He came to the right place for advice brosky.

the only herbal supplement that would be a red flag would be st johns wort or 5htp. If she wasn't taking those then she's fine.

 

[Andon]

dude he asked for help about the mdma reaction, he didnt ask for your fucking opinion on his girlfriends mental health. you're not some therapist dude so dont go dispensing shit advice like that.

Well holy shit merry fucking christmas to you too :D

 

[lionheart90]

Well holy shit merry fucking christmas to you too :D

merry christmas to you too bro. sorry I lashed out like that, I hate when people take it unto themselves to give unsolicited mental health advice if you couldnt already tell.