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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

HELP! Advice on large amount of VALIUM/DIAZIPAM withdrawal!

Thanks for that, it's just the worry and mixture of opinions on here and another site/taper charts etc.

I don't feel that bad I am working 5 days a week, feel a bit spaced out but if I can do what I have in the last 4 weeks again in over the next 6 weeks (get down to 60/65 then rehab said they can get me down 10mg a week for 4 weeks so I come out on hopefully 20mg then nhs taper.

I'm just worried from what I've been reading that I'm going to be a mess when I come out of there as I HAVE to go back to work two weeks after.. Thanks
 
I was (and sometimes still am) on more than you. Maybe I am lucky but several times when I have stopped buying via the internet because of constant fraud on my bank account (I cannot mention sources but strike up a personal, friendly relationship with a dealer and NEVER order from Pakistan no matter how cheap they are !) I have gone from 1000mg daily to nothing, at a stroke and for up to six weeks at a time. Codeine helps but in the US you will have to do CWE. My one problem is inability to sleep. Once, I did 28 nights, and the following days) in a row without a wink of sleep. I find I begin hallucinating after ten nights (at which point my doctor gave me ONE 5mg tablet - idiot !). Also I get tempted to neck 2-3 bottles of strong wine which not only costs more and although it does not stop me working ( I am retired now), I tend to look for excuses not to do a thing. But legal tapering is impossible for me as no doctor will start you (in the UK at least) on more than 30mg daily which I cannot even notice !There is a lot of hype about tapering. Your state of mind is the key. I have convinced myself I do not do illness, and I have not had even a cold since I was 10. I don't do seizures either ! I am not suggesting you follow my example or that you should not take the matter seriously but I can verify that it is not a "fact" that cold turkey is impossible. Seizures are caused by over activity in the brain cells which have become used to sedation so, if you are worried about that, switch to another sedative. The new "Z drugs" use the same receptors in the brain as benzos. And, at the rate you have been using those, are very unlikely to send you to sleep. Alcohol is also a sedative drug and probably reduces the risk of seizures, but is really the worst alternative because it damages other parts of the body, especially the liver, and is far more likely to lose you your job. On the other hand, there is a cross tolerance with benzos so you will probably be able to take more of it than "normal" people.
Many people will disagree with me but, kept within limits ,alcohol could save your life. But I would suggest codeine as a substitute for diazepam/Valium. In the US I think you can only get 10mg or 20mg tablets. In the UK there are 60mg tablets, although 2x30mg is cheaper, while up to 600mg is legally available as a linctus under a pharmacist's supervision without a script. In fact, a chemist would not be breaking the law by filling a 500ml bottle from a larger one, and a few still do. Otherwise do a CWE but I would suggest with paracetamol (called something else in the US) and not with ibrupufen because it is harder to extract and is toxic in long term use, even if it is available in every corner shop. Be careful, too, with paracetamol if using alcohol because both damage the liver. Codeine, though, although it is not strictly a drug but a pro-drug which has to be metabolised to morphine (also in the liver) is a benign substance which I have used (both with and without diazepam) for nearly 50 years. It is a pity that the US has such an irrational fear of it. In Iran (don't go there for it !) both 30 and 60mg tablets are OTC medicines and, at least until recently, and for all I know still, both tablets can be bought OTC whether strictly legally or not in Spain. Oddly enough the same applies to diazepam, etc, in India but, for some odd reason, the country has followed America in making codeine virtually impossible to obtain, even in cough mixture !
To summarise, I can only help you from my own personal experience. There are good reasons for quitting diazepam and indeed all benzos, one of which is the possible connection wtih Alzheimer's Disease (although if you read the report from Strasbourg University, published in, I think 2012, which stopped most doctors prescribing diazepam, in particular, in the UK, and study it with care, you will see it is fatally flawed. Alas, I do not have the space here to say why, but it is worth reading. I know seizures are a possible risk, but do not assume they are inevitable and treat what you read of the dangers with the proverbial "pinch" (or sackful !) "of salt ! Finally, if you are going to taper, there is no point in tapering below 15 or 20mg a day. Everyone I know who has done tapering has simply stopped at about that point with no ill effects. Cutting up 2mg tablets with a razor blade is a pointless exercise. I hope this helps you.
 
^I agree with some of your points. Alcohol could be the difference between life and death for someone in a serious withdrawal state, but in modern times and living in a developed country, you should be seeking medical attention before tyring to substitute Alcohol for Benzodiazepines.
 
You've been offered a lot of good advice

My opinion? Save your mom's money. Rehab really isn't what you need at this point in time. Forgive my bluntness, but you're wasting your mom's money (which you said is a lot for her).

Your best bet is a slow taper. It's almost a necessity for medical safety with high habits/long term habits. Rushing to get yourself down to 30 so you can get off in that month...why? What do you think they are going to do in rehab in that month that you can't do in an outpatient type setting/provided appropriate scripts by a physician? Normally rehab sort of follows detox and gets you out of your toxic environment and gives you a month of associating with clean/sober people. Sort of a head start, as it's hard for someone in active addiction to one day use and be around users then the next come to an immediate halt and find completely different friends. Truthfully you are more in need of the detox aspect, but in your situation your detox is going to be much more drawn out.

And if you are set on doing the last of your detox in a rehab setting, well, you probably need to rearrange your time off/time going into detox...you're really pushing it to be ready for the time frame you set up. I know you're going to say that's when you have it set for, and I understand that giant pain in the arse it is to change it....but it's your life you're talking about here. Rushing, and doing an unsuccessful taper is going to be a waste of time, money, quality of life, etc


My advice would be to keep tapering. Get lower. See a doctor to help when you get lower and may need other meds. If you don't think you can go completely to zero unless you're locked away in a facility, then do that *when you get lower* ...

You sound like you really want to succeed, you're doing great tapering, and I felt compelled to comment because I don't want to see you mess it up and also waste a lot of $ by rushing for some "set in stone" dates...

Hope you succeed, whichever way you decide to go about it
 
^ Thanks for the advice and I get where your coming from.

I'm guessing ur from The USA? The problem I've got is that I run out around that time. The legal limit here for a dr to prescribe is 30mg there are nhs outpatient drug rehab places but as I said when I first went there they were really pushing it by prescribing me 60mg as I was on about 5mg of xanex, they really didn't want to and said they have never prescribed that ammount.

I have also seen a private dr at a cost who deals especially with addiction but he is in the same situation 30mg max legal limit. So said rehab or taper down yourself (can't taper if I run out and all I can get is tamazepam eggs..
 
^ true...if you are going to run out of what you have and you aren't able to get more it would indeed be impossible to do a long taper. In that case, I would understand why you want to go into detox/rehab at that point. I'd probably be more likely to obtain what I needed from a different source...but now at least your plan makes more sense to me. I wasn't grasping why you'd rush to go midway through a taper and come out not even off..but yes I see at that point you can get legally prescribed for your last 20 mg or so. And yes I'm from the US so wasn't aware of your limits of prescriptions.


Still, I think a longer slow taper is better, but given your circumstances I would do my best to taper as low as is comfortably possible before going in. If you can get down to 30 though, wouldn't it make more sense to just have the dr prescribe your taper? I understand that they won't do higher so you may need to go with your plan if you're on a higher dose

The good thing about high doses (silver lining) is with any detox,you candrop bigger amounts initially because the percentage you can safely drop equalls to a higher mg. (For instance when I was detoxing methadone I never felt 10% drops. That could be 10 mg when on 100mg dose, 5 mg on 50 mg dose, etc). So you should be easily able to drop bigger amounts now than at say 40 or 50 mg.
 
Cheers for that, yea basically that the issue here. When I come out of rehab on 30/20 I will then taper the last bit prescribed by the dr as long as it takes..
 
On 85mg now, have been cutting around 5mg per week. I am starting to feel the withdrawal now, lack of sleep, anxiety, heart racing every now and then, feel down, headaches, shakes etc.

A close family bereavement may have had some influence? It can't be a conincidence can it?

Last weekend I only cut 2.5mg on the Friday and was planning to do the same on the Sat but because of the above I didn't.

I've just about managed work, 5 days a week but it's tough one, each day is different, the first was hell (like the fist day of cold turkey).

I have two weeks of work left then I have 8 weeks off (week 7-4 in rehab).

It's put me off my goal of getting down to 60 by Jan (rehab).

As the higher amounts are easier to cut do u think i should cut more this weekend even if it's just 2.5? I need to be on the least ammount possible before going into rehab but I don't want to be a mess before I go in and defiantly don't want to be a mess when I come out.

I need to come out on the lowest dose my body can handle so I can do the last 30/20 a slow taper over how long it takes but I need to be able to function normally and work... Any advice appreciated. Thank you..
 
Sindy, I totally understand your anxiety, but these things are different for each person. Some people have the hardest time reducing the final 5mg and some have more trouble dropping from the higher dosages. Some people like me can do 10mg drops at a time without a lot of trouble and some can't reduce 1mg without being in misery. It's unfortunately, not something that can be remotely predicted. Even if we could predict the absolute physicality of the withdrawal syndrome, your perception of how bad it is will always be impossible to predict.
 
Sindy- beware of discouraging yourself too. As Keif pointed out: each person responds differently. If you set yourself a target and then miss that target, the self-loathing and rebound depression can cause you to take more pills and set you even farther behind in your tapering goals.
Remember that this is work and that it won't always be easy. But take this time to get to know yourself with respect to how you can handle getting off these powerful drugs. Your goal right now is to get yourself down to the lowest possible dosage prior to entering rehab. You will have plenty if time to beat yourself up for missing your target AFTER you are in rehab. Don't do it now or you may find yourself even further from your goal of 60 by Jan.
 
Been on 70 for the last three days now and feel ok. Will be going into rehab on 70 and see what they can do...
 
Congrats Sindy. Good luck . We are all praying for your success!
 
Thanks, been in rehab two days, on 65mg, no problem. Plan is to go to 60 tomorrow..
 
Sindy- My personal experience was that the worst wd's show up in the first 24 hours. It sounds like you could be more agressive and maybe only suffer some insomnia.
I only suggest this because i know your target is important and going slow might not get you there in time.
 
60.. No problems for last two nights. I and the people here in rehab think I can do 10mg a week so will hopefully be leaving on 30mg.. Then slow taper..
 
Hi mate, I haven't read all the other comments here, but I have been through pretty much exactly the same as what you are going through. My dosage got as high as 120mg/day, and cut it down by 5mg/week all the way down to 40mg/day for rehab. When I started with the rehab (it was a home withdrawal but with meetings every day with the psychiatrist) and he tried to get me to cut down by 10mg, even though it had been horrible just cutting by 5mg. I lost so much weight in 2 days, my body fat % went down to 3% and I ended up in hospital. I then took more Valium and was fine. Levelled out then at 50mg/day for 2 weeks while I put the weight back on that I lost, and then came down by 5mg/week again from there to 30mg/day after the psychiatrist realised his mistake, and then down by 2mg/week from 30mg/day to 6mg/day. I then jumped off at 6mg cold turkey.
The whole experience was fucking horrible, and scary. I honestly thought I wasn't going to make it, and that I was going to die. I had psychosis, had a religious experience, the works! It was the hardest and worst thing I have ever done.
I have now been clean 5 months and have never felt better.
You can do it mate, and it will be well worth it when you do.
Good luck, and keep your chin up. You will get through it.
If you want to talk more about it, send me a message, I'm happy to help. I know exactly how you're feeling and if there's anything I can do to help you through it, I will do it! Just drop me a message. :)
 
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Been reading the entire thread, impressed! I do hope you make it, you seem so brave and determined :)
 
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