Has anyone used Kratom for 20 plus years?

[Snafu in the Void]

Ok interesting method I would think it would work for bupe cause of the long half life ? Or maybe the half-life is what would make it not work..I’m trying to get off subs by lowering .05-.10 per week or so, only been taking it for around 2 weeks I quit h on the 4th and didn’t take a sub still around the 6th and am currently at around .63ish mg a day in the morning...I’m freaking out wondering if this will work or if by taking the sub I essentially fucked myself to either relapse when I try to stop or be on bupe for a long time

Definitely worth a shot, I'd say.

I've always been a fan of rapid tapers and actual cold turkey. For me, it is overall less pain to do so. I'd rather be in absolute hell for a week or two compared to being in mini hell for months and months. That's just me, though.

When I quit fent 3-4 months ago I actually just went cold turkey since I was self employed and had the option to just lock myself in my room. It was hell for about 2 weeks, then I picked up some kratom and felt fine.

When I did this method with kratom I actually wasn't even trying to quit! I noticed it lowered my tolerance and then when I got down to 6-8g/day I noticed that I could actually get a buzz every day from it even after years of daily use. So I just stuck to it.

 

[Las Veghost grower]

Definitely worth a shot, I'd say.

I've always been a fan of rapid tapers and actual cold turkey. For me, it is overall less pain to do so. I'd rather be in absolute hell for a week or two compared to being in mini hell for months and months. That's just me, though.

When I quit fent 3-4 months ago I actually just went cold turkey since I was self employed and had the option to just lock myself in my room. It was hell for about 2 weeks, then I picked up some kratom and felt fine.

When I did this method with kratom I actually wasn't even trying to quit! I noticed it lowered my tolerance and then when I got down to 6-8g/day I noticed that I could actually get a buzz every day from it even after years of daily use. So I just stuck to it.

I tried Kratom before I took the sub but I felt like it did nothing, maybe I extracted wrong ? I did like 4-5 tablespoons and simmered in water for about 20min, mixed with o.j. And got no relief...wish I never took the sub but was so sick of being sick

 

[Snafu in the Void]

I tried Kratom before I took the sub but I felt like it did nothing, maybe I extracted wrong ? I did like 4-5 tablespoons and simmered in water for about 20min, mixed with o.j. And got no relief...wish I never took the sub but was so sick of being sick

I dont know how many grams are in a tablespoon 5 level tablespoons sound roughly like 5g to me (just a guess tho) - but yes kratom is very weak when coming right out of opioids. This is why I suggest people actually cold turkey first for like 3-4 days at least THEN switch to the kratom. That way you can actually get a buzz off it. Kratom works best towards the end of withdrawal or for protracted withdrawal.

I suggest getting a scale or something and weighing out 10-12g. Making a tea works great hits you faster, and yeah very light simmer for 15 min should work. I always added a ton of lemon juice, never tried with OJ.

I got lazy and just toss n' wash now instead of making a tea. The tea tastes nasty as fuck. You barely taste it with toss n' wash (but it takes practice with this method, you don't want to dump powder or swallow it wrong to the back of your throat you will puke)

 

[Las Veghost grower]

Thanks for the info, right now I think all I can do is follow through with my plan of a really slow taper maybe I’ll try you method tomorrow and cut my dose to .25 mg or so, but I do start getting a little sick at the end of the day and in the morning. I hate these drugs

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Thanks for the info, right now I think all I can do is follow through with my plan of a really slow taper maybe I’ll try you method tomorrow and cut my dose to .25 mg or so, but I do start getting a little sick at the end of the day and in the morning. I hate these drugs

Me too man, I'm glad I'm off the opioids and the only thing I will ever touch again is kratom. Still having a hard time kicking kratom, not because it's difficult, but just because I can't drink caffeine and kratom is a really good way to wake up in the morning.

I hope I never have to go through opioid withdrawal again. I promised myself not only for my own sanity, but made a promise to my 4 friends who have OD'd and passed on. All highschool buddies. The highschool I went to was called "Heroin High". Probably 10% of the kids were on it.... seriously.

I'll never forget being at my friend J.L.'s funeral. His dad came up to me, we hugged, and he was absolutely bawling his eyes out on my shoulder. I have NEVER seen a grown man weep like that. It will haunt me for the rest of my life. I've already put my mother through enough hell. I vowed that day to get off the shit and never do it again. I relapsed on fent like 6 months ago and was on it for 3 months, then got off. Never again. Never. Again.

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

My benzo use, which is almost zero, is because of your intelligent posts and experiences with them.

Man, I don't know if this is smoke being blowwed or if it in fact has halped one irl... but it doesn't matter: keep 'em coming makes me feel good.
Thanks for the kind words, nonetheless.
Will keep on keeping on as long as possible.
Please do the same?
Peace

 

[JackARoe]

Man, I don't know if this is smoke being blowwed or if it in fact has halped one irl... but it doesn't matter: keep 'em coming makes me feel good.
Peace

I had to laugh, imagine doing something really nurturing for some in a genuine way and they turn around and say are you really helping me or blowing smoke up my bum. lol
Yes there is a difference. And intent is a good way to discern what people are doing. You did have a few posts on benzo's that stuck in my head. And the addiction is not something I would want for something I don't need all the time. But some people do need them. I am cautious enough where I did xanax 3 nights in a row once because it was a high stress time of putting my inlaws into a nursing home and clear out their apartment in Canada (whew). But 3 nights concerned me it and I see how they can be sneaky and addictive.

Anywho, yup, still doing kratom. I got it down to half of what I was doing and I regularly put many hours in between. The stuff last at least 9-12 hours for me yet I have seen people say they feel withdrawal after 4 hours. And if someone did not come from a rougher life style or have pain issues I don't recommend it.

Peace all.

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

I dont know how many grams are in a tablespoon 5 level tablespoons sound roughly like 5g to me (just a guess tho)

Sorry to interrupt this regularly schedule program but I wanted to point out that 5 level tablespoons is way more 5 grams. Just so nobody takes 5 level tablespoons thinking it's only 5 grams, it would probably be closer to like 30-40 grams if your talking about finely ground kratom powder. Maybe 10-15 grams if it's crushed leaf.

The amount that will be in a level tablespoon varies from one batch to the next and can also vary even from one scoop to the next depending on things like, for example, how tightly packed it is... like the difference between lightly scooping then scraping level vs packing it in the tablespoon as much as possible then scraping level. So it varies, it's a good idea to occasionally check how much each scoop is with a scale, especially with each new batch.

Like i said, It can vary quite a bit especially depending on how finely ground it is, but most places on the internet say that for finely ground kratom a level tablespoon is roughly 6-7 grams, but again this can vary so it's best to double check with your own kratom, tablespoon and scale. The 6-7 gram estimate per tablespoon could be way off for your particular batch.

Also, this is assuming you're using an actual tablespoon from like a real set of measuring spoons and not some random spoon you happen to call a tablespoon cause you use it at the table...

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Also, this is assuming you're using an actual tablespoon from like a real set of measuring spoons and not some random spoon you happen to call a tablespoon cause you use it at the table...

I assumed he meant an actual spoon, which is probably around 5g, but good job clarifying

I used to use a spoon to measure my doses

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

It probably came off more like rambling then clarifying, lol.

that does make sense, a regular spoon scrapped level would be considerably less than a true tablespoon scrapped level for sure

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

I had to laugh, imagine doing something really nurturing for some in a genuine way and they turn around and say are you really helping me or blowing smoke up my bum.

I can imagine and been there. And it is ridiculous to the point of an lol at times.
Yep... skeptical and critical. Can't blame a mf but more than welcome to judge me for my being me. All good. Glad ya got a laugh at it as maybe it was appreciated in some way. IDK.
Sometimes these days it can be hard to discern the difference. My bad.

And the addiction is not something I would want for something I don't need all the time.

This I found true. The mind can do wonderful *things given time. Finding something that does not bring stress aliviates the need for benzos in the first place (IME). Give me peace of mind and I could cut down benzo usage in half or better.

still doing kratom

"On" it, as well as phenibut every third day (optimlly). Seems to be enough most times and occasionally indulge but it is my time and place, now.

 

[jrey]

@jrey the lock downs and COVID did a lot of psychological imbalances in almost everyone so don't beat yourself up. I have to say when I was younger I really did stuggle with balance, trying to stay positive and keep my substance use reasonable. I know exactly the type of feelings you describe. I think as I get older I get more chill on stuff like my uses and feeling guilty or depressed. (on the flip side I am totally the opposite of chill these days when it comes to living and finances but have made peace with substance use) And sometimes because me still being alive I don't know why hell I am still alive and on Earth. lol And let's face it, life is God Damn hard so when I do feel light hearted and a little happy or I am laughing I milk it. I tell the same thing to my 93 year old Father in Law that is in a nursing home in Canada when he chuckles, see even with circumstances at their worse humans can laugh and lighten up. I think if someone is motivated to get off opiates, which ever kind, taking one or two doses of sub or methadone at the end at that is it would be wisest. Staying on those things causes more issues and single doses do wonders. If not then take a regular amount of kratom, same time everyday and keep a maintenence until you feel more balanced. Most of all, make peace with that. Things are here for us to utilize and I find myself thanking Mother Nature instead of feeling guilty for letter her help me. A little shift in perspective for sure helped me. It takes practice though. I practiced guilt for too long so leaning to thankfulness took time. But hey, the mind is a muscle that needs exercise.

@PtahTek you know thanks right back at you. A lot of us on BL have been reading each other's post for years and appreciating but most don't realize that. My benzo use, which is almost zero, is because of your intelligent posts and experiences with them. I don't need benzo's so I save them for the time i need sleep or something. But yeah, I learn a lot here. Same with @MDPV_Psychosis along with too many people to list, all threads and posts have been appreciated through the years.

Yes you are right.

 

[negrogesic]

Im just curious what are you trying to gauge with this info? I've been using it for ~4 years and the past year it's been pretty detrimental to my mental health.

Can you elaborate and in what doses?

 

[negrogesic]

The benefit of kratom withdrawal is the speed. Insomnia and restlessness are the worst complaints, but ends in 7 days. Few lingering psychological withdrawal unlike other opioids.

Most ive done coldturkey with kratom was 30g/day.


One benefit for kratom is that is more creative and promusical of any opioid ive encountered. Most opioid are antimusical with the exception of morphine and heroin, which arent great for music creation but improved singing control significantly (combined with the disinhibition). Guess thats why singers love their heroin.

 

[nznity]

kratom is nasty, loperamide+clonazepam+lyrica+gabapentin+clonidine is the way to go if u guys wanna getclean.

 

[JackARoe]

The benefit of kratom withdrawal is the speed. Insomnia and restlessness are the worst complaints, but ends in 7 days. Few lingering psychological withdrawal unlike other opioids.

Most ive done coldturkey with kratom was 30g/day.


One benefit for kratom is that is more creative and promusical of any opioid ive encountered. Most opioid are antimusical with the exception of morphine and heroin, which arent great for music creation but improved singing control significantly (combined with the disinhibition). Guess thats why singers love their heroin.

Interesting thoughts. I agree with the first one. Kratom withdrawal has a ceiling and is over quick. That is why when someone wants to use suboxen for withdrawal I cringe unless it is one use at the end of a run. I had a person I knew completely admit that they should not have used suboxen for kratom. They were on it for a month and had a hell of a time getting off. 2 weeks later he was still not well and if it were kratom he would have been almost 100%. I will say this. The lethargy lingers for a few weeks. However saying that it is hard to say what is normal lethargy and what is withdrawal. I work with people that never heard of kratom and are lethargic, bored and restless in the middle of their work day. We have energy drinks for sale in society so regular people get lethargic. I think we forget that and try to blame every symptom on withdrawal. As far as sleep cannabis can get me to sleep in kratom withdrawal, that is not so with stronger opiates.

Most I' ve done was 50 gr a day. I am down to about 25 gr twice a day now, it is 8:00AM and the last time I had any was 4:00PM yesterday and am basically ok.

Opiates and music. I've always considered all opiates sort of a lubricant for music. Not in the way that people thought if you did heroin you can play music like Charlie Parker. But I always considered opiates more psychedelic than say alcohol. All opiates blunt emotions a bit but can open other areas during that time.

All in all though I do not recommend kratom to people. As I said the only people I tried to was years ago and they didn't take, were looking for stronger stuff as they already had habits. People deal with things differently and I would hate to see the difficulty that some people have with kratom. Suffering is subjective and we all have our breaking points. For me though I don't consider kratom too serious, yet someone else just may and that has to be respected.

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

loperamide+clonazepam+lyrica+gabapentin+clonidine

So, let me see if I am understanding:
Replace one substance (kratom) which is *relatively benign with five other substances that may lead to some terrible withdrawals?
Please correct me if I am misunderstanding?
Peace

 

[TheRealYeastBeast]

Well, I gotta say, I don't feel like so much of an outlier seeing others in this thread taking large doses like myself. I'm currently at around 35-45g per day. It's clearly too much. Not because of the comparison to other users, but because it had affected my life in a couple ways.

For the first few months it reliably gave me energy and I could easily find motivation to do tasks I'd normally not be thrilled doing. Did quite a bit of real shitty work helping my dad remodel parts of his house during that time. Then, as I tend to do with any drug that's basically unlimited at my fingertips, I started dosing more and more over the months. As that progressed I essentially started losing all my motivation to do much of anything that wasn't ultimately a necessity. However, that effect isn't truly 100% due to the kratom. I've found over and over again in my life that my motivation and amount of goals/accomplishments are a part of a sort of "emotional velocity" that must be maintained. If I can get a string of good things accomplished, even small stuff, it improves my overall mental state and propels me to continue that trend without too much mental anguish. There's several factors for why I'm currently in a fairly low output trend of "emotional velocity" right now, but kratom definitely has played a part.

The other thing is a couple physical effects large doses have brought on. One being what I've seen referred to as "the wobbles". This is the disphoric physical side effects that happen when I take too much at once. Usually there's headache, stomach discomfort (not really nausea tho) and a strange effect on vision with an inability to focus on things. While this effect is rather uncomfortable, it's temporary. Additionally, taking this much kratom most definitely affects my sleep negatively. This could be remedied by never taking a dose after a set time in the evening. I have a problem tho. It's one that addicts of all stripes will relate to. Whenever I feel my doses wearing off, and I know there's ba whole jar of kratom 3 feet away, it becomes a battle of will power to keep from having another spoonful to keep the high going. I fail this test almost daily, which means I often take kratom within an hour of the time I have planned to go to sleep. The result has been I sleep less overall and I wake up often in the night. That kind of sleep habit is well known to be unhealthy. Maybe not immediately, but certainly over a long span.

I know that my experiences here are not from a decades+ user. I'm just a guy who let his use grow to probable unhealthy levels within around 2 years. I wanted to share this just so people understand that the types of behaviours and thought patterns you may have exhibited while abusing other drugs will most certainly reveal themselves with kratom use if you're not conscious of them and actively try to prevent it.

 

[Xorkoth]

I dont know how many grams are in a tablespoon 5 level tablespoons sound roughly like 5g to me (just a guess tho)

A level tabelspoon of kratom, finely powdered like it all is these days, is about 6 grams. So 5 is about an ounce...

 

[Snafu in the Void]

A level tabelspoon of kratom, finely powdered like it all is these days, is about 6 grams. So 5 is about an ounce...

Yeah, was my bad, when I hear tablespoon I literally think of a fucking spoon... Lol that's where my numbers came from

A leveled off spoon should be about 1-1.5g

I'm pretty good at eyeballing my kratom doses after so many years, I was just wrong about the unit of measure

You can probably tell I don't cook much...