Has anyone used Kratom for 20 plus years?

[jrey]

Has anyone here have been using Kratom for 20 plus years? If so, how is it like? What’s your tolerance level? And are there any negative side effects to your health?

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

Im just curious what are you trying to gauge with this info? I've been using it for ~4 years and the past year it's been pretty detrimental to my mental health.

 

[jrey]

Im just curious what are you trying to gauge with this info? I've been using it for ~4 years and the past year it's been pretty detrimental to my mental health.

I’ve been using Kratom for 2 years and it helped me live a “normal” life and I’ve accomplished so many goals I never thought I’d accomplish. I’ve been on opiates and hard drugs since a young teen and every time I tried to quit, I’d relapse. Idk if my brain is just messed up forever from using since a young age and if I would need to be taking Kratom for the rest of my life just to function properly. So I’m wanting to know if anyone is doing fine from 20 plus years of Kratom use.

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

If you're able to keep your doses low and not escalate them then you should be alright for a while. Like anything, if you abuse it it'll fuck you up, maybe not as a bad as other "hard" drugs but it'll still fuck with you.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

I used it for 6 years, abused it a lot at first with large doses but realized that kratom is a "less is more' drug. I took my dosage down to about 6-8g/day which is plenty. Although kratom contributed to my recent liver failure... so I'm quitting it too.

I found it a great replacement for coffee, but not a good replacement for opioids, though it does help during withdrawal.

Kratom withdrawal itself can be nasty if you're taking high doses or dosing multiple times per day.

Treat it like any other drug, it can be dangerous and like falsified said, detrimental to your physical and mental health.

 

[JackARoe]

On and off since 2005. After 2011 mostly on. Now I should say I used heroin and methadone from 1982 - 1994 and poppy tea from 1994-2009. I got off that and did kratom a few times a week and kept it like that for a year. I still craved other stronger opiates though in between kratom uses so I decided to go daily. Also I need more than most people. Even from my first use I needed a minumum of 10 gr. (yes I know good kratom trust me). So for a long time I did 40 + grams a day. Now I am at about 25 gr a day. I just had my physical 2 days ago and am as healthy as can be. My liver was almost perfect, but I do use milk thistle and I recommend it.

A few thoughts: I have a few friends that did not take to kratom as they wanted stronger stuff. But for me I learned it's value. I really think I would be dead without that crutch as I most certainly would have went to the street and copped H (whicn would have been fentanyl of course) and probabaly OD'd.

I don't notice a tolerance other than from the very beginning I need a good amount and before weighing settled on 2-3 tablespoons. The same amount every day works. It is not something I chase and I never use extracts. Extracts are questionable and in the past have been found to be spiked with synthetic stuff. So no tolerance issues for me. I am one that gets annoyed with people taking 2-3 grams. That would not even make me sneeze. But I never up the amount even though it is a large amount compared to others and it always works.

Withdrawal: Well just as I have a few friends that did not think it was "strong enough" the flip side of the coin with that line of thinking is the withdrawal also has a ceiling. Kratom withdrawal is annoying. But I don't get to be a puking nighmarish mess that can't stand or lay down like with stronger opiates. (poppy tea withdrawal is unbelievable). If you stick it out the withdrawal fades much quicker. My wife was taking 30+ grams a day for 6 years, actually shoveled it in whenever she wanted. She went CT in 2012. 5 days of toughing it out and 2 weeks of lethargy but was sleeping and eating fine by day 5. However she also had given up drinking habits and that withdrawal was much worse for her. For me can sleep with cannabis in kratom withdrawal. That is not so with stronger opiates. So there is a ceiling. I had a friend that quit kratom twice. FIrst time CT, the second time did suboxen and TOTALLY regretted that as it was way worse for way longer. He said he was high as a kite on suboxen after kratom. Something to heed. Just stick out kratom withdrawal. Gabapening and pregabalin also totally cover the symptoms and I can go 48-72 hours and then I break again because I figure it is not that bad.

2-3 Days of poppy tea use results in worse withdrawal than after stopping a year of kratom. (for me)

I totally agree with S-Void. Treat it with respect. Any drug can cause issues. But it just so happens for me kratom only made me healthier due to coming from a much rougher lifestyle. (that is me though) I don't recommend that for people that have no issues. And there are people that used it few times and had liver issues. I really would like to know the mechanism that happens.

Incidentally I have not had kratom since 14 hours ago and am taking gabapentin and feel fine. I can say this, it can cause much worse issues if you shovel in every 4 hours. For me putting in 10-15 hours in between sort of keeps me at bay. For all I have learned is put time in between uses. That will keep the issues at least a little better. And for some of us these issues are a better trade off than where came from. When quitting the best way is spacing the uses.

 

[jrey]

I used it for 6 years, abused it a lot at first with large doses but realized that kratom is a "less is more' drug. I took my dosage down to about 6-8g/day which is plenty. Although kratom contributed to my recent liver failure... so I'm quitting it too.

I found it a great replacement for coffee, but not a good replacement for opioids, though it does help during withdrawal.

Kratom withdrawal itself can be nasty if you're taking high doses or dosing multiple times per day.

Treat it like any other drug, it can be dangerous and like falsified said, detrimental to your physical and mental health.

How did you lower your tolerance? Since quarantine I’ve been taking way too much Kratom.

 

[jrey]

On and off since 2005. After 2011 mostly on. Now I should say I used heroin and methadone from 1982 - 1994 and poppy tea from 1994-2009. I got off that and did kratom a few times a week and kept it like that for a year. I still craved other stronger opiates though in between kratom uses so I decided to go daily. Also I need more than most people. Even from my first use I needed a minumum of 10 gr. (yes I know good kratom trust me). So for a long time I did 40 + grams a day. Now I am at about 25 gr a day. I just had my physical 2 days ago and am as healthy as can be. My liver was almost perfect, but I do use milk thistle and I recommend it.

A few thoughts: I have a few friends that did not take to kratom as they wanted stronger stuff. But for me I learned it's value. I really think I would be dead without that crutch as I most certainly would have went to the street and copped H (whicn would have been fentanyl of course) and probabaly OD'd.

I don't notice a tolerance other than from the very beginning I need a good amount and before weighing settled on 2-3 tablespoons. The same amount every day works. It is not something I chase and I never use extracts. Extracts are questionable and in the past have been found to be spiked with synthetic stuff. So no tolerance issues for me. I am one that gets annoyed with people taking 2-3 grams. That would not even make me sneeze. But I never up the amount even though it is a large amount compared to others and it always works.

Withdrawal: Well just as I have a few friends that did not think it was "strong enough" the flip side of the coin with that line of thinking is the withdrawal also has a ceiling. Kratom withdrawal is annoying. But I don't get to be a puking nighmarish mess that can't stand or lay down like with stronger opiates. (poppy tea withdrawal is unbelievable). If you stick it out the withdrawal fades much quicker. My wife was taking 30+ grams a day for 6 years, actually shoveled it in whenever she wanted. She went CT in 2012. 5 days of toughing it out and 2 weeks of lethargy but was sleeping and eating fine by day 5. However she also had given up drinking habits and that withdrawal was much worse for her. For me can sleep with cannabis in kratom withdrawal. That is not so with stronger opiates. So there is a ceiling. I had a friend that quit kratom twice. FIrst time CT, the second time did suboxen and TOTALLY regretted that as it was way worse for way longer. He said he was high as a kite on suboxen after kratom. Something to heed. Just stick out kratom withdrawal. Gabapening and pregabalin also totally cover the symptoms and I can go 48-72 hours and then I break again because I figure it is not that bad.

2-3 Days of poppy tea use results in worse withdrawal than after stopping a year of kratom. (for me)

I totally agree with S-Void. Treat it with respect. Any drug can cause issues. But it just so happens for me kratom only made me healthier due to coming from a much rougher lifestyle. (that is me though) I don't recommend that for people that have no issues. And there are people that used it few times and had liver issues. I really would like to know the mechanism that happens.

Incidentally I have not had kratom since 14 hours ago and am taking gabapentin and feel fine. I can say this, it can cause much worse issues if you shovel in every 4 hours. For me putting in 10-15 hours in between sort of keeps me at bay. For all I have learned is put time in between uses. That will keep the issues at least a little better. And for some of us these issues are a better trade off than where came from. When quitting the best way is spacing the uses.

Thanks for your reply. Kratom was great for me at first when I was taking just a little. Never felt as normal and happy in my life. Since quarantine my Kratom use as been way out of control. I haven’t even been weighing how much I’ve been taking, but I know it’s A LOT. I decided to kick Kratom last week because it has been pretty detrimental to me mental and physical health especially since quarantine. I lost so much weight and muscle, and I’ve been so depressed and I’m sure it’s due to using way too much Kratom lately. As with your friend, I did the same exact thing by taking subutex thinking it would help me with my Kratom withdrawals. I’ve always been a pussy when it comes to withdrawals. When it comes to opiates, I have kicked pills, H, poppy seed tea, and methadone. Methadone being the worse for me. But for some reason I’m still scared of Kratom withdrawal. I guess it’s mostly because I don’t have much support atm and feel like I’m doing all this alone.
After taking subutex, I didn’t take anything for a few days and ended up taking some Kratom. My tolerance is still pretty high up there. I’m definitely gonna want to lower my tolerance by taking a few days off at least without taking any other opiate like I did with the subutex. It’s mostly the very high anxiety, restlessness, insomnia and depression that gets me. I have some kava kava coming in tomorrow but idk if that will help ease my withdrawals even if I stop just for a few says to lower my tolerance.

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

When I started taking too much kratom I started feeling sluggish, depressed, weak and irritable almost 24/7. I tapered down to a lower dose and started feeling much better, not immediately but after my body readjusted. It was like night and day, so so much better.

you can try to skip a few days but that won't likely have that great of an impact on your overall tolerance. You would also have to make sure not to quickly go back to the dosages you were using before stopping.

You could also taper but first you'd want to start weighing doses so that you can figure out how much you're taking daily. Then get a consistent schedule where your taking a certain amount at certain times instead of random amounts whenever. Then start tapering, just reduce dose slightly every few days until you get where you want to be. Kratom, for most people, is pretty forgiving. You could probably drop like 20-30% of your dose right off the bat without much discomfort. The first 2 or 3 days after a dose reduction might be a little uncomfortable, just power through by staying busy.

 

[Ds]

How did you lower your tolerance? Since quarantine I’ve been taking way too much Kratom.

When I was on Kratom first thing i would do is press some into capsules. Then in my bag I would keep a spoon. I would take 1 spoon whenever I woke up, and take 1 spoon later in the night when I was settling down. I would take 4 capsules along with me as I start my day, and if I felt like I was starting to feel sick then I would take 1 capsule, and if it didn't help then I would wait 30 minutes and take another. (never more than 4).

The spoon is like your typical kitchen spoon. nothing fancy.

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

On and off since 2005.

Just want to comment for taking the time to post. Got a lot from it and as always other posts but this took some love and a respect for one's curiosities. Not sure how to say it other than thanks but what else is there to say?

OT:
Only been on it for a coupla/three years and so far have kept doses below 3g maybe 4 times a day. Kratom has been a godesnd and undoubtedly a life-saver in my case. Surely woulda been dead by the hand of others....
Only ill effects to date come from not consuming adequate water while "on it". Headache, fatigue, constipation, *uneasiness etc.
Although I haven't seen a physician for an all-out "ceck-up" for many years (20+ haha, <--- this is not a brag or recommended just a fact. I feel good physically but when my mind starts fuckin with me it does take a big toll on my physical being.
Now the head-docs is another story.... They cannot see anything but what I choose anyway so they do not know me nor can they ever.
Love me
lol

 

[JackARoe]

@jrey the lock downs and COVID did a lot of psychological imbalances in almost everyone so don't beat yourself up. I have to say when I was younger I really did stuggle with balance, trying to stay positive and keep my substance use reasonable. I know exactly the type of feelings you describe. I think as I get older I get more chill on stuff like my uses and feeling guilty or depressed. (on the flip side I am totally the opposite of chill these days when it comes to living and finances but have made peace with substance use) And sometimes because me still being alive I don't know why hell I am still alive and on Earth. lol And let's face it, life is God Damn hard so when I do feel light hearted and a little happy or I am laughing I milk it. I tell the same thing to my 93 year old Father in Law that is in a nursing home in Canada when he chuckles, see even with circumstances at their worse humans can laugh and lighten up. I think if someone is motivated to get off opiates, which ever kind, taking one or two doses of sub or methadone at the end at that is it would be wisest. Staying on those things causes more issues and single doses do wonders. If not then take a regular amount of kratom, same time everyday and keep a maintenence until you feel more balanced. Most of all, make peace with that. Things are here for us to utilize and I find myself thanking Mother Nature instead of feeling guilty for letter her help me. A little shift in perspective for sure helped me. It takes practice though. I practiced guilt for too long so leaning to thankfulness took time. But hey, the mind is a muscle that needs exercise.

@PtahTek you know thanks right back at you. A lot of us on BL have been reading each other's post for years and appreciating but most don't realize that. My benzo use, which is almost zero, is because of your intelligent posts and experiences with them. I don't need benzo's so I save them for the time i need sleep or something. But yeah, I learn a lot here. Same with @MDPV_Psychosis along with too many people to list, all threads and posts have been appreciated through the years.

 

[Shady's Fox]

The lock downs and COVID did a lot of psychological imbalances in almost everyone so don't beat yourself up.

Aaah, so for many life is bars and raves. No wonder why we ain't got love nowadays, with internet and the human condition called ''stupidity'' it's a deadly mix. Best I can say, it's to get yourself outta rabbit hole -- it's possible but you also need yourself to do that. Anyway to OP, no man, I didn't use kratom for 20yrs I don't even know if anyone did this haha, I only used for detox nothing more nothing less.

 

[JackARoe]

Aaah, so for many life is bars and raves. No wonder why we ain't got love nowadays,

It is up to us to bring the Love. Hey, look at the hearts, a little love was found here today. I'll get you some back. It is everywhere if we know how to see it. Even just posting is an act of Love. Reaching out to others to help and connect.

 

[Anonymous Dissident]

I've been using kratom regularly since late 2005 or early 2006. For the first approximately 14 years, I kept my doses in check and didn't use it every day. My use has only gotten way out of hand in the last 6 months or so. Prior to my neck injury, 7-10g/night, 5 nights a week was an average use. Following the course of morphine I was given after my surgery, I still had a lot of pain that otc pain relievers and lyrica couldn't handle, so back to kratom it was.

My real mistake was to utilize kratom on a set schedule, treating it just like an actual medication (despite my newfound addiction, I still feel it is truly a medicine). Taking 6g/3x daily, then 8g/ 3x daily and so on to the point that I was up to 25g/3x daily. I've started to taper myself down slowly in the last few weeks, removing around 1g from one of my doses each day. I'm currently dosing 15g in the morning, 10g in the afternoon, and 25g at night.

My reasoning for this is that it took months to build up to these ridiculous doses, so I should taper back down over a similar period to minimize my discomfort while still incrementally lowering my doses at a regular rate. I felt some awful restlessness on my first day at a sum of 50g/day, so I plateaued there for a couple days until the restlessness abated, and tomorrow I plan to start lowering my afternoon dose by .5-1g a day until I can phase out my afternoon dose entirely, then do the same with my morning dose, and finally start reducing my nightly dose last. I'm not in a position to be able to go several consecutive nights without sleeping, so my nightly dose will ideally be lowered by .25-.5g a night to still allow at least a few hours of sleep each night. I don't know for certain that I'll be able to muster the willpower to stick strictly to this regimen, but I intend to get to the point that I don't need kratom every single day in the not too distant future. If anyone has any suggestions for my taper, I'd greatly appreciate them.

I had a lot of bloodwork done prior to my surgery, and my liver and kidneys were fine then. I haven't had any bloodwork since, but I'm not experiencing any symptoms of liver issues, and knowing what I do about kratom, I'm very cognizant of anything that might indicate liver damage. This is no guarantee that my liver is still functioning properly, but the moment I experience anything even remotely resembling liver issues, I'll be back at my primary care provider requesting a new round of tests for elevated liver enzymes or other symptoms of damage. If anything changes with regard to my liver function, I'll report it here asap.

 

[xivixive]

i take at least 70g a day as well, also trying to taper. usually 10 gram doses, but sometimes i dose at least every 3 hours, sometimes every 45 minutes... its gotten out of control for me.

last week i removed about 1g per dose and managed to use about 90 grams less then the previous week. havent experienced physical discomfort doing that, problem is when any type of stressful situation appears i say fuck it and take a dose, even though its really not doing anything at all at this point. sometimes the fact that its doing nothing adds to my aggravation, actually not improving my mood at all... i feel like if i really stuck to removing 1g per dose every day i could get it under control and eventually kick it with a few days long pregabalin bender... i just cant get enough lyrica to do this... my tolerance to that stuff means i would need at least 400mg every 12hrs the first day, and i'd probably have to at least double that dose each day for 4 or 5 days...

the first sign of success will be if i can get down to 500g per week. unfortunately this week i am on track to use 690g, which is where i was at the week before i tapered. the problem is me... i just have such weak will power at this point in my life. i also have no other substances to rely on for relief, and i've been a daily poly-substance for 20 years now.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

i take at least 70g a day as well, also trying to taper. usually 10 gram doses, but sometimes i dose at least every 3 hours, sometimes every 45 minutes... its gotten out of control for me.

last week i removed about 1g per dose and managed to use about 90 grams less then the previous week. havent experienced physical discomfort doing that, problem is when any type of stressful situation appears i say fuck it and take a dose, even though its really not doing anything at all at this point. sometimes the fact that its doing nothing adds to my aggravation, actually not improving my mood at all... i feel like if i really stuck to removing 1g per dose every day i could get it under control and eventually kick it with a few days long pregabalin bender... i just cant get enough lyrica to do this... my tolerance to that stuff means i would need at least 400mg every 12hrs the first day, and i'd probably have to at least double that dose each day for 4 or 5 days...

the first sign of success will be if i can get down to 500g per week. unfortunately this week i am on track to use 690g, which is where i was at the week before i tapered. the problem is me... i just have such weak will power at this point in my life. i also have no other substances to rely on for relief, and i've been a daily poly-substance for 20 years now.

I've never been on such a high dose, but I found an unusual taper schedule to work for me like this:

28 / 12 / 26 / 12 / 24 / 10 / 22 / 10.... etc every 2nd day you take a large chunk off, then every 1st day just taper a few grams. It was completely painless. I was able to get down to 6-8g 1x per day. At this point (and I have several times) I can just go cold turkey with almost no withdrawal at all.

Might be worth a shot

 

[Las Veghost grower]

I've never been on such a high dose, but I found an unusual taper schedule to work for me like this:

28 / 12 / 26 / 12 / 24 / 10 / 22 / 10.... etc every 2nd day you take a large chunk off, then every 1st day just taper a few grams. It was completely painless. I was able to get down to 6-8g 1x per day. At this point (and I have several times) I can just go cold turkey with almost no withdrawal at all.

Might be worth a shot

Do you think a high low approach like this would work for subs too ?

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Do you think a high low approach like this would work for subs too ?

No idea, never tried it with subs, I don't think it would either, but it might be worth a try.

I've heard some people say kratom withdrawal kicks in just as fast as other opioids - but for me kratom withdrawal would hit (or at least become noticable) around hour 18-22. I would generally dose around 12-14g in the morning and then again 5-6 hours at lunch. I didn't dose at night, so when I would wake up in the morning about 18-20 hours had passed.

When I did this I felt no withdrawal. On the low days I wouldn't get any buzz. But after only a few days of doing this schedule I noticed my tolerace getting lower and lower and I would get a bigger buzz on the high dose days.

I accidentally discovered this because one day I didn't have enough for my usual dose, so I took a much smaller dose and noticed no withdrawal. So I just randomly gave this a shot - and it worked!

 

[Las Veghost grower]

No idea, never tried it with subs, I don't think it would either.

I've heard some people say kratom withdrawal kicks in just as fast as other opioids - but for me kratom withdrawal would hit (or at least become noticable) around hour 18-22.

When I did this I felt no withdrawal. On the low days I wouldn't get any buzz. But after only a few days of doing this schedule I noticed my tolerace getting lower and lower and I would get a bigger buzz on the high dose days.

I accidentally discovered this because one day I didn't have enough for my usual dose, so I took a much smaller dose and noticed no withdrawal. So I just randomly gave this a shot - and it worked!

Ok interesting method I would think it would work for bupe cause of the long half life ? Or maybe the half-life is what would make it not work..I’m trying to get off subs by lowering .05-.10 per week or so, only been taking it for around 2 weeks I quit h on the 4th and didn’t take a sub still around the 6th and am currently at around .63ish mg a day in the morning...I’m freaking out wondering if this will work or if by taking the sub I essentially fucked myself to either relapse when I try to stop or be on bupe for a long time