Harmaline + DMT

[Brendles]

Right. So all of my friends want to do an Ayahuasca ceremony. But all aya is is dmt and an maoi in a decoction. So if I were to just drink a glowing shot of Harmaline (MAOI) and then eat a rock of DMT wouldn't that work faster and exponentially more powerfully as you're absorbing more concentrated dmt/maoi's?

 

[Solipsis]

Well, the advantage would be that there isn't some thick volume of nasty brew to digest but on the other hand the disadvantage may be that some plant brews may present a rich palet of alkaloids that are all taxing on the metabolic system. And as such, that system would be rather preoccupied leaving a more substantial fraction of DMT (and even secondary alkaloids) to work their magic.

I have not got around to trying oral DMT yet and I am not that partial to any use of MAOIs whatsoever, but I must say that I would rather take my chances with having relatively pure DMT act alone than getting involved with shamanic brews like the complete ayahuasca situation. In fact, I would first attempt with some moclobemide substituting for harmala alkaloids as MAOI since it is said to be quite clean and without as much uncertain additive effect. I have taken harmala before with mushrooms and it was a happening not to be reckoned with...

 

[kingpin106]

can you please share your experience with harmala + shrooms as im interested in this. What dosage of eachd id you do? Where they p.harmala seed or extract?

thanks

 

[Solipsis]

It was about 3-4 grams of Peganum Harmala IIRC (if not 5 grams, up to 5 grams is considered normal for MAO inhibition I think). And the dose of mushrooms was 2-2.5 grams dry Cubensis.

The trip was very earthly, it felt shamanic / natural for some reason. I think that it is in part a psychological effect (placebo since I knew that the drugs had a natural origin) and also in part because natural drugs tend to be more rich (but also impure / dirty) mixes of alkaloids and this can produce a certain state of intoxication. Obviously you can't generalize all natural drugs, but I am talking about ones that do not contain truly toxic compounds but do contain secondary compounds that may modulate the effects of the primary compound, creating a palet of balanced effects. Cannabis is actually another example of that, and there are loads more.

Anyway the MAO inhibition felt to me like there were no more controls or limits, and there aren't that many to begin with in a normal mushroom trip! So it was hazy, earthly, spiritual, messed up and out of control, and really strangely visionary. For example upon closing my eyes I saw a room, and it was as if I was sitting on a chair in the center of this square prison-cell like room. Then someone entered, and it was me! The other version of me looked at me with a penetrating look but didn't say anything at all and I did not say anything either. He/I walked around me scanning me but there was utter miscommunication. The effect was incredibly alienating and a little disturbing. I suppose there are symbolic connotations to it, but I don't really know.

Personally I don't wish to repeat.

 

[kingpin106]

Thanks for the reply mate. Reason I ask is that I have a limited amount of mushrooms and have plenty of extracted harmala powder. I've had harmala experience with vaped dmt and had no issues at all. How many mg's would be equivalent to your dosage of seeds?
Last time I had the same shrooms it was 2.5g and my friend and myself found it to not be enough for us. Want to get some info before we possibly proceed with this.

Thanks

 

[Solipsis]

You cannot compare DMT dosage to harmala seed dosage, harmala acts as MAOI not as primarily acting alkaloid which DMT is.

Oh! You mean extracted harmala powder sorry... well it depends on the quantity of seeds it was extracted from, basically the purity. It's not much use to say anything about it if you don't know how pure it is. But... for an approximation, 4% of the seeds apparently is alkaloid (source = http://www.erowid.org/plants/syrian_rue/syrian_rue_extraction5.shtml ) so 5 grams of harmala seeds would be equal to about 200 mg of harmala powder. Heh, maybe it is of some use after all.

 

[kingpin106]

All good mate. I extracted from 100g of seeds. Better weight up what I have. Thanks for the info

 

[phuckingnutz]

I've done Ayahuasca...mimosa/rue actually...dozens of times and I've also done rue and extracted DMT and, IME, they are similar but definitely NOT the same.
The mimosa decoction does indeed have other alkaloids in it that act synergistically with the DMT making for a much richer fuller trip. WAY better.
DMT powder with rue was good but not AS good as the full spectrum decoction, IMO.

MAOI's tend to "mute" the DMT or, in the case of mushrooms, the 4-po/ho-DMT.
By muting, especially with n,n,-DMT, I mean that the sharp edges are gone it's softer...definitely a longer trip but not nearly as deep, for me anyway.

I've done the rue/shroom thing several times and was disappointed in the results....10 grams dried cubes and 4 grams rue was only a mediocre event...that quantity of shrooms alone was better.

As for how much Rue to do, 3 grams is plenty to start with you can always eat another gram or two a couple of hours into the trip to give it more legs.

 

[Ismene]

I always use moclobemide as the MAOI with DMT or mushrooms. I find it causes less nausea, it's easier to ingest and crucially, you can be certain you're getting a sufficient dose of MAOI. I know the native theory is that the "caapi" is the key to the brew but to me, the only reason you're taking the MAOI is to release the effects of the DMT. DMT is the daddy as far as I'm concerned not the MAOI.

Moclobemide and mushrooms is exactly the same as an oral DMT trip for me. I don't mean "similar" or "a bit like". Moclo and mushrooms acts as DMT in the human body. I know some people say an MAOI "potentiates" mushrooms but they must be people who've never taken oral DMT. Mushrooms and moclo is indistuingishable to oral DMT. Even to the extent that if you try taking moclo and mushrooms within 7 days or so you get little to no effects. The psilocybin is completely deactivated and the only effect you get is of a very weak DMT trip. Wheras you can take psilocybin without moclo every week and still experience a strong mushroom trip.

I tend to go for moclo/mushrooms rather than oral DMT as DMT seems to hit a lot harder and cause more initial nausea, I prefer the slower comeup you get from mushrooms that gives you an hour or so longer to adapt. Oral DMT whether in the form of ayahuasca or moclo/mushrooms is the big bang of psychedelics.

MAOI's tend to "mute" the DMT or, in the case of mushrooms, the 4-po/ho-DMT.
By muting, especially with n,n,-DMT, I mean that the sharp edges are gone it's softer...definitely a longer trip but not nearly as deep, for me anyway.

How can the MAOI mute anything phuck? The whole point is the MAOI lets the DMT act without being deactivated in the gut.

 

[phuckingnutz]

IME, and keep in mind that my experience is only with harmala (ground seeds/extract), is that it increases duration but "rounds off the sharp edges". By that, I mean that the visuals are not as intense.

With an IM injection sans harmala the trip is much more detailed/sharper than without...obviously I can't compare oral in the same way concerning n,n,-DMT.
I can, however, with mushrooms and they are not NEARLY as good, IME/O, with harmala.
This comparison was done with my own homegrown cubes (fresh and dried) out of the same mono-tub.

Your results may vary, but I've read several reports concerning shrooms with harmalas where they, too, were less than impressed with the combo.

All that said; mimosa/rue is still, IME, the BEST way to experience DMT.